What is Greg Brown doing on defense? Worst I've ever seen...

[buffsyko]

First off, get espinosa off their best wr dumbass. He should not be on the field.

Major is playing in no man's land most of the time and is a non factor.

We line up two lb's over the de and leave the middle wide open.

We blitz and blitz and never come close to the qb as our lb's just run into the cluster **** in the OL.

Have we ever covered a te ...ever?

Worst ****ing defense I've ever seen. CU is a joke. We are closer to FCS than BCS.

No heart or pride on this team. NONE.

[Matt]

You are the most annoying buff fan on this site.

[buffsyko]

You are the most annoying buff fan on this site.

Your the biggest douche on this site.

[patebuff]

Everyone has lost it. Wonder what the locker room is like?

[bigbang]

The ready made excuse would be we don't have DB's. Greg Brown was horrible as a DC at Arizona.

[bigbang]

First off, get espinosa off their best wr dumbass. He should not be on the field.

Major is playing in no man's land most of the time and is a non factor.

We line up two lb's over the de and leave the middle wide open.

We blitz and blitz and never come close to the qb as our lb's just run into the cluster **** in the OL.

Have we ever covered a te ...ever?

Worst ****ing defense I've ever seen. CU is a joke. We are closer to FCS than BCS.

No heart or pride on this team. NONE.


Well said also when it is 3rd and 3, play the run first. Run a inside blitz or stunt not a corner or edge rush outside blitz

[buff4bcs1985]

this may be unpopular... but it might be time for coach cabral to go... the linebackers short of rippy are awful this year

[J.R. Ewing]

Major runs like a 6.0 forty. Lot a lot of other talent out there.

[patebuff]

Houbuff, love the pic! Pure awesomeness

[Quattro]

I'd like you to name a DC who could have a decent defense with this secondary.

[J.R. Ewing]

I'd like you to name a DC who could have a decent defense with this secondary.

Chuck Norris, Jesus, .... That is all.

[bigbang]

I'd like you to name a DC who could have a decent defense with this secondary.


Yep there goes the excuse.

[Quattro]

Yep there goes the excuse.You're the one saying this secondary has excellent players. No one in the country minus Chuck Norris (And Jesus if you're mormon) could make this D respectable.

[bigbang]

How many yards did Washington have rushing today. I guess our secondary is poor that is why we couldn't stop the run.

[bigbang]

You're the one saying this secondary has excellent players. No one in the country minus Chuck Norris (And Jesus if you're mormon) could make this D respectable.

Never said that, i said Greg Henderson is good.

[buffsyko]

I'd like you to name a DC who could have a decent defense with this secondary.

Still making excuses. I know this, espinosa should not be covering the other teams best wr. You can keep making excuses for brown. He stinks as a DC and the only thing guys like you come up with in response is BROWN AND SMITH.

Greg brown will not be DC here for very long.

[Quattro]

Still making excuses. I know this, espinosa should not be covering the other teams best wr. You can keep making excuses for brown. He stinks as a DC and the only thing guys like you come up with in response is BROWN AND SMITH.

Greg brown will not be DC here for very long.I like how you avoided my question.

[bigbang]

Greg Brown sucked as a DC at Arizona, i don't get the hire.

[buffsyko]

I like how you avoided my question.

I try to avoid most things you spew but why can't henderson or smith cover kearse? What? You have another excuse?

Brown stinks.

[Quattro]

Greg Brown sucked as a DC at Arizona, i don't get the hire.He wasn't the full DC at Arizona though. Hell I'd be willing to be he didn't do much there other than mentor there.

[BuffTuba]

567 yds i believe. 269 on the ground or around those. we are beat up. Hartigan wasn't in either.

[Quattro]

I try to avoid most things you spew but why can't henderson or smith cover kearse? What? You have another excuse?

Brown stinks.Schemes, coverage, packages, idk and I'm sure there's a reason why.

[bigbang]

567 yds i believe. 269 on the ground or around those. we are beat up. Hartigan wasn't in either.

Yep the secondary got to do a better job stopping the run, 269 yards is unacceptable.

[buffsyko]

He wasn't the full DC at Arizona though. Hell I'd be willing to be he didn't do much there other than mentor there.

It's not just the secondary. Our LB's other than rippy are always out of position or a non factor. The DL gets pushed around like rag dolls.

CU has no chance to even come close to winning this year or next if this defense doesn't get fixed and soon. No reason to be this bad.

[buffsyko]

Schemes, coverage, packages, idk and I'm sure there's a reason why.

:lol: Brilliant. Most DC would have a converted 3rd string wr covering the other teams best wr. You win...:rolling_eyes:

[Quattro]

It's not just the secondary. Our LB's other than rippy are always out of position or a non factor. The DL gets pushed around like rag dolls.

CU has no chance to even come close to winning this year or next if this defense doesn't get fixed and soon. No reason to be this bad.So why is being out of position on the coaching? The players take no responsibilty one bit? I'm sure the coaches tell them where to be and when.


:lol: Brilliant. Most DC would have a converted 3rd string wr covering the other teams best wr. You win...:rolling_eyes:Just saying. Unless you know the schemes and all that, you don't have a clue.

[DBT]

I'm glad most of you are experts. It helps me to understand by reading your insightful comments. Greg Brown sucks and anyone who claims it could be because of a "lack of talent" is just making excuses. Thanks for helping me understand.

[ScottyBuff]

21-0 Boise over CSU in the 1st quarter.

I bet the Falcons and Denver Broncos are glad they don't play this weekend, apparently it is "BEAT THE **** OUT OF COLORADO FOOTBALL TEAMS WEEKEND"

At least CSU-Pueblo won over Kearney and might crack the D-2 Top Ten!

[ScottyBuff]

sorry wrong thread. oh well

[Duff Man]

I'm glad most of you are experts. It helps me to understand by reading your insightful comments. Greg Brown sucks and anyone who claims it could be because of a "lack of talent" is just making excuses. Thanks for helping me understand.

The talent is the biggest issue, partly due to Brown's ineffectiveness on the recruiting trail. And it is not getting any better this year either. We are down to offering a bunch of athletes who might be decent DBs in time.

[Heywood]

I am not a football guru, so I cant tell you if it is scheme and coaching or poor execution and lack of talent. What I can tell you is that was ****ing pathetic. Something has to change. We lost rippy so now the D is officially ****ed. So lets just start a bunch of underclassmen and see if we cant get anything done.

One thing that I seem to always hear is that we are shading a safety over hear to protect so and so, or we have the LBs doing something to protect somebody else. Lets just line it up and play it strait. No compensation, just get it done. It can hardly be worse than the **** show I saw today.

[DBT]

Its not about the X's and O's, its all about the Jimmys and Joes. :lol:

[DBT]

The talent is the biggest issue, partly due to Brown's ineffectiveness on the recruiting trail. And it is not getting any better this year either. We are down to offering a bunch of athletes who might be decent DBs in time.You keep saying that about Brown. I won't question you on that. Bummer if true. I hope Embree critically evaluates his coaches after the season. In every area. If you can make a change in the coaching staff for the better, even if it means making a tough decision, you have to do it. That is the one troubling thing about Embree hiring "friends." Makes it much tougher.

[buffsyko]

I'm glad most of you are experts. It helps me to understand by reading your insightful comments. Greg Brown sucks and anyone who claims it could be because of a "lack of talent" is just making excuses. Thanks for helping me understand.

Hearing this from the guy who year after year was the expert on hawk "turning it around". Short memories at allbuffs.

[RalphMalph]

I understand being passed on with out secondary, but I do not like being run on with out d line and lb's.

[ThndringHerd]

The talent is the biggest issue, partly due to Brown's ineffectiveness on the recruiting trail. And it is not getting any better this year either. We are down to offering a bunch of athletes who might be decent DBs in time.

Exactly. We have mondo playing time to sell. If Brown were worth a fiddler's damn, we should be getting commits from guys who have the potential to start 3-4 years at this level. That's lower 4* and higher 3* recruits at a minimum. Instead, we're down to guys who are borderline as to whether or not they will ever even develop to the point they should see game reps in a BCS conference. About a half notch above the Hawk years when our safety recruits had absolutely no business anywhere above the MAC/CUSA/DII level, but not enough better to matter.

I don't think Embree can afford to be overly patient with Brown's recruiting problems. Bad classes this year and next would put us in a hole talent-wise at least through 2015.

[96 Buff]

Wait, I thought coaches recruited regions, not positions?

[Duff Man]

Wait, I thought coaches recruited regions, not positions?

They do recruit regions, but position coaches are almost always brought into help the seal the deal, especially on elite recruits.

[JimmyBuff]

this may be unpopular... but it might be time for coach cabral to go... the linebackers short of rippy are awful this year

i've been saying it for 3 years now. nice to see others have seen the light.

[JimmyBuff]

I'd like you to name a DC who could have a decent defense with this secondary.


Britney spears or Lady Gaga could do a better job as a dc than Greg Brown. I bet they'd recruit a whole lot better too.


quit making excuses for Brown. He wasn't getting it done on Hawk's staff and now he's inept on Embree's staff. This ain't a Supreme court appointment where u can be a CU coach forever just cause u bleed black and gold. When u don't produce you get replaced just like players do.

Time to hit the road Brown

[NYbuffDIEHARD]

I am just blown away at how open every other teams receivers are? It is unreal how many times an opposing qb drops back and has all day and has 3 wide open guys to choose from. This season is so much worse than I ever could have imagined. Oregon may score 100 next week or whenever the F it is.

Venting, nothing left here, I am watching and even going to games but dear God it is a struggle. Please God send us brighter days in Buff Football. Amen.

[MtnBuff]

Creatini looks like a voice of reason, and I'm not even drunk. Buy a lotto ticket and look out for astroids, weird things happening.

I just don't get the Brown hate, yes he was a part of the old staff for a while and not a long time Buff like Cabral. He didn't recruit great talent under Hawkins, nobody else did either. Hawk had his "system" for who he recruited and micromanaged the process, I'm not blaming Brown for that era.

As far as recruiting now, we will see, give him a year or two before panicing.

As a DC it is completely crazy to blame him for what is happening now. They blitz like crazy because they have no chance what so ever of getting a big play on defense otherwise. How many of the defensive starters on this team would start for Washington or Stanford, the last two teams we played. Then start piling up injuries for a team that had no depth to start with and what you see is the result.

I know losing sucks and getting blown out sucks even more but scapegoating Brown or Hansen or some of the others I have heard makes no sense at all.

[JimmyBuff]

Creatini looks like a voice of reason, and I'm not even drunk. Buy a lotto ticket and look out for astroids, weird things happening.

I just don't get the Brown hate, yes he was a part of the old staff for a while and not a long time Buff like Cabral. He didn't recruit great talent under Hawkins, nobody else did either. Hawk had his "system" for who he recruited and micromanaged the process, I'm not blaming Brown for that era.

As far as recruiting now, we will see, give him a year or two before panicing.

As a DC it is completely crazy to blame him for what is happening now. They blitz like crazy because they have no chance what so ever of getting a big play on defense otherwise. How many of the defensive starters on this team would start for Washington or Stanford, the last two teams we played. Then start piling up injuries for a team that had no depth to start with and what you see is the result.

I know losing sucks and getting blown out sucks even more but scapegoating Brown or Hansen or some of the others I have heard makes no sense at all.


That's fine. IF you want to give Greg Brown and the others a pass for not doing anything the past 5 years on the other staff fine by me. When Embree is gone I hope the next coach keeps Brown and the others around cause damn we just can't have a program without those guys on the staff in some way. Maybe Greg Brown will be our next head coach. Remember, he took over the defense (allegedly according to the Brownmanics) after the Toledo game in 2009 from Collins (team finished 3-9). And his work with the defense this year along with his stellar recruiting, hell I'm not sure why this guy isn't the next coach at Arizona. Great resume. Guy is awesome.

[DBT]

Hearing this from the guy who year after year was the expert on hawk "turning it around". Short memories at allbuffs.You are a ****ing moron. :smile2:

[dio]

Creatini looks like a voice of reason, and I'm not even drunk. Buy a lotto ticket and look out for astroids, weird things happening.

I just don't get the Brown hate, yes he was a part of the old staff for a while and not a long time Buff like Cabral. He didn't recruit great talent under Hawkins, nobody else did either. Hawk had his "system" for who he recruited and micromanaged the process, I'm not blaming Brown for that era.

As far as recruiting now, we will see, give him a year or two before panicing.

As a DC it is completely crazy to blame him for what is happening now. They blitz like crazy because they have no chance what so ever of getting a big play on defense otherwise. How many of the defensive starters on this team would start for Washington or Stanford, the last two teams we played. Then start piling up injuries for a team that had no depth to start with and what you see is the result.

I know losing sucks and getting blown out sucks even more but scapegoating Brown or Hansen or some of the others I have heard makes no sense at all.

I get it after today. We all know we don't have depth and talent, but getting blown out by the margin we saw today is a lot coaching as well. Allowing UW to score TDs on 5 straight possessions - but we don't want to blame the DC?

What about the easy, wide open catches UW had? Those are bad coverage schemes and bad overall playcalling. He's got to do better.

[DBT]

I get it after today. We all know we don't have depth and talent, but getting blown out by the margin we saw today is a lot coaching as well. Allowing UW to score TDs on 5 straight possessions - but we don't want to blame the DC?

What about the easy, wide open catches UW had? Those are bad coverage schemes and bad overall playcalling. He's got to do better.Bad coverage schemes? How do you know what the "schemes" were? Could it be "damned if you do, damned if you don't" with our D backs? They get beat if they cover man. They are too slow to react if they go zone. They get killed if they blitz and don't get to the qb. If they don't blitz, the qb has forever. So, what would you do, dio, if you were d coordinator?? Not intending to rip you because you are probably more knowledgeable than me on this team. I'm just not sure what Brown can do that will work.

[krom]

This is bad. Like Okruch bad. Those were some awful defenses and we aren't far from that now.

[buffsyko]

Creatini looks like a voice of reason, and I'm not even drunk. Buy a lotto ticket and look out for astroids, weird things happening.

I just don't get the Brown hate, yes he was a part of the old staff for a while and not a long time Buff like Cabral. He didn't recruit great talent under Hawkins, nobody else did either. Hawk had his "system" for who he recruited and micromanaged the process, I'm not blaming Brown for that era.

As far as recruiting now, we will see, give him a year or two before panicing.

As a DC it is completely crazy to blame him for what is happening now. They blitz like crazy because they have no chance what so ever of getting a big play on defense otherwise. How many of the defensive starters on this team would start for Washington or Stanford, the last two teams we played. Then start piling up injuries for a team that had no depth to start with and what you see is the result.

I know losing sucks and getting blown out sucks even more but scapegoating Brown or Hansen or some of the others I have heard makes no sense at all.

My question is, what has brown done for you? Please don't tell me jimmy smith and jalil brown. I see no reason why a 3rd string wr is covering the best wr on ashington's team none. Scott's liquid gold could cover better than our db's. We either want to do it right or just keep blaming depth. Well, you think recruits and especially "The new staff's recruits" are going to be lining up to come play for this team? People keep saying wait til embree gets his recruits in. Talent isn't coming when they keep seeing this team get blasted each week.

It's not just the secondary, it's the way our LB'S are always out of position. Just look at major, he should be making plays all over the field, instead he's 3 yds behind the de just standing there. Why can't brown come up with a way to get a 3rd down stop?

We all Knew this wasn't going to be a stellar year but please, 1-6?

[Matt]

you're the biggest douche on this site.

fify

[MtnBuff]

My question is, what has brown done for you? Please don't tell me jimmy smith and jalil brown. I see no reason why a 3rd string wr is covering the best wr on ashington's team none. Scott's liquid gold could cover better than our db's. We either want to do it right or just keep blaming depth. Well, you think recruits and especially "The new staff's recruits" are going to be lining up to come play for this team? People keep saying wait til embree gets his recruits in. Talent isn't coming when they keep seeing this team get blasted each week.

It's not just the secondary, it's the way our LB'S are always out of position. Just look at major, he should be making plays all over the field, instead he's 3 yds behind the de just standing there. Why can't brown come up with a way to get a 3rd down stop?

We all Knew this wasn't going to be a stellar year but please, 1-6?

What has Brown done for me so far, not much, but I don't think anyone could have done much with what he has available. I do know that if he wasn't here he would have a job someplace else and probably much higher profile and better paying. This is a guy with a super bowl ring and a few years of very high level success.

I'm not saying that Brown deserves a pass or that everything he has done is good. What I am saying is that he is being scapegoated by a very frustrated fanbase that has no clue what is going on other than seeing a very ugly scoreboard each week.

Fire Brown and tell me who is going to come in and do better. Won't happen. If Brown left today the defense would not improve one bit and probably get worse. The Fans would then turn their wrath onto the next scapegoat in line. Thankfully Embree understands what is happening and will tell the fans to go **** themselves until he has a reasonable chance to evaluate the staff and that hasn't happened so far.

If we aren't getting measurably better on a year to year basis then fire Brown, fire others, make the changes. Nobody gets a free pass. To start talking about firing people at this point is simply ridiculous and just as dumb as not firing people after they have had a fair chance to show what they can do and not performed.

[BuffUp]

I get it after today. We all know we don't have depth and talent, but getting blown out by the margin we saw today is a lot coaching as well. Allowing UW to score TDs on 5 straight possessions - but we don't want to blame the DC?

What about the easy, wide open catches UW had? Those are bad coverage schemes and bad overall playcalling. He's got to do better.top to Bottom

blame all around - the whole football team, including the back-up's, all the coaches and even the admin. staff - need's to share some blame....

[BuffUp]

What has Brown done for me so far, not much, but I don't think anyone could have done much with what he has available. I do know that if he wasn't here he would have a job someplace else and probably much higher profile and better paying. This is a guy with a super bowl ring and a few years of very high level success.

I'm not saying that Brown deserves a pass or that everything he has done is good. What I am saying is that he is being scapegoated by a very frustrated fanbase that has no clue what is going on other than seeing a very ugly scoreboard each week.

Fire Brown and tell me who is going to come in and do better. Won't happen. If Brown left today the defense would not improve one bit and probably get worse. The Fans would then turn their wrath onto the next scapegoat in line. Thankfully Embree understands what is happening and will tell the fans to go **** themselves until he has a reasonable chance to evaluate the staff and that hasn't happened so far.

If we aren't getting measurably better on a year to year basis then fire Brown, fire others, make the changes. Nobody gets a free pass. To start talking about firing people at this point is simply ridiculous and just as dumb as not firing people after they have had a fair chance to show what they can do and not performed.

agree + we need some players to step up - atleast one player that can force their will on someone a "game changer" that's what the buffs are lacking

[dyemeduke]

What has Brown done for me so far, not much, but I don't think anyone could have done much with what he has available. I do know that if he wasn't here he would have a job someplace else and probably much higher profile and better paying. This is a guy with a super bowl ring and a few years of very high level success.

I'm not saying that Brown deserves a pass or that everything he has done is good. What I am saying is that he is being scapegoated by a very frustrated fanbase that has no clue what is going on other than seeing a very ugly scoreboard each week.

Fire Brown and tell me who is going to come in and do better. Won't happen. If Brown left today the defense would not improve one bit and probably get worse. The Fans would then turn their wrath onto the next scapegoat in line. Thankfully Embree understands what is happening and will tell the fans to go **** themselves until he has a reasonable chance to evaluate the staff and that hasn't happened so far.

If we aren't getting measurably better on a year to year basis then fire Brown, fire others, make the changes. Nobody gets a free pass. To start talking about firing people at this point is simply ridiculous and just as dumb as not firing people after they have had a fair chance to show what they can do and not performed.

THANK YOU! ... ...people of course can be (and should be based on performance) critical of the team and staff, but these reactions have been much too exaggerated. Practically everyone on these boards knew that syko and jimmy would lose it, but come on...some of you are surprising. Yes, the years of futility have become frustrating, but don't lose it...

[dyemeduke]

You are the most annoying buff fan on this site.

+1

[The Guest]

THANK YOU! ... ...people of course can be (and should be based on performance) critical of the team and staff, but these reactions have been much too exaggerated. Practically everyone on these boards knew that syko and jimmy would lose it, but come on...some of you are surprising. Yes, the years of futility have become frustrating, but don't lose it...

We've got to keep our composure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgRp-CZ1UDc

[jahbrahakala]

It's not just the secondary, it's the way our LB'S are always out of position. Just look at major, he should be making plays all over the field, instead he's 3 yds behind the de just standing there. Why can't brown come up with a way to get a 3rd down stop?



Yes, and Rippy is great vs the run, but sucks at coverage so far, I believe most of the TE passes across the middle the last two games were his responsibility and he just let them run by into wide openness with #3 just standing there. He improves his coverage, he will be an excellent LB, until then just a good run stopper.

Terrel Smith struggled early on for sure, hope this improves. Moten needs more reps I think.

[ThndringHerd]

Yes, and Rippy is great vs the run, but sucks at coverage so far, I believe most of the TE passes across the middle the last two games were his responsibility and he just let them run by into wide openness with #3 just standing there. He improves his coverage, he will be an excellent LB, until then just a good run stopper.

Terrel Smith struggled early on for sure, hope this improves. Moten needs more reps I think.

I wouldn't assume those completions were on Rippy. I doubt he has much coverage responsibility besides covering backs leaking up the middle. In 3-4 man, either the strong-side OLB or the safety on that side of the field generally has coverage responsibility on the TE. If it's zone, one or both ILB's take responsibility for the short middle, but the posts and deep ins are on the safeties. I admittedly slept through 2-1/2 quarters of the UW game, but the completions I saw over the middle were either deep enough to be in the safeties' zone, or we were in man and a safety got beat 1-on-1 by a WR or TE.

[buffsyko]

fify

:lol:

[buffsyko]

THANK YOU! ... ...people of course can be (and should be based on performance) critical of the team and staff, but these reactions have been much too exaggerated. Practically everyone on these boards knew that syko and jimmy would lose it, but come on...some of you are surprising. Yes, the years of futility have become frustrating, but don't lose it...

My expectations for this team and the number of wins has been incorrect. Have I gone overboard with blaming greg brown? Maybe, and firing him after 1 year wouldn't make sense but I still don't think he is the guy we'll see. I doubt I'm the first or last to over-react after another bad loss on the road.

[Ralphandler1]

this may be unpopular... but it might be time for coach cabral to go... the linebackers short of rippy are awful this year

That maybe the worst idea I have ever heard. Do you know how many NFL linebackers he has produced? How many other teams have a position coach with his loyalty and devotion to a program? How many schools have a position coach that have coached multiple Butkus winners and finalists? How many LB coaches in the NCAA can show up to recruit a kid wearing an NFL championship ring? How many Island kids come here because of him? Do you think there is a reason EVERY SINGLE HC for the past 2 decades has never even thought about bringing in another LB coach? Come on I know the season is rough but we expected this might take a couple years but blaming Cabral is ridiculous in my opinion

[MtnBuff]

My expectations for this team and the number of wins has been incorrect. Have I gone overboard with blaming greg brown? Maybe, and firing him after 1 year wouldn't make sense but I still don't think he is the guy we'll see. I doubt I'm the first or last to over-react after another bad loss on the road.

People say a lot of stuff in frustration, you have been a loyal and dedicated Buff fan long enough to have a right to be frustrated with what is going on.

I think what we are going to get in Brown is what we knew we had from the start. He is never going to be your leader as a recruiter, doesn't have the personality and isn't the salesman who connects with kids in a way that makes them identify with a school before they ever get there, we have some other guys on the roster who have that job.

What we do get is a highly respected position coach. He did develop two guys from middle of the road recruits to NFL draft choices, he coached in the NFL getting a ring and would be an NFL coach now if he wanted to be. Is he a DC, we don't know, he hasn't done it before but I'm guessing that once he has some players he will be.

If he doesn't make significant steps forward next year and in the following years then yes fire him.

As frustrated as we are I'd expect that the coaches to a man are feeling sick to their stomachs over this year. If not then they should be fired now.

[Ralphandler1]

THANK YOU! ... ...people of course can be (and should be based on performance) critical of the team and staff, but these reactions have been much too exaggerated. Practically everyone on these boards knew that syko and jimmy would lose it, but come on...some of you are surprising. Yes, the years of futility have become frustrating, but don't lose it...
I agree I am as frustrated as everyone but seriously guys how are you gonna blame a DC that lost 7 of his top 8 CB coming into the season. For all those complaining about Brown please tell me what you would be doing? You can't blitz and leave 4th/5th string players on the corner alone without getting killed. If you don't blitz you get picked apart by the next #1 pick and another potential first round pick from UW. If you run a zone Andrew Luck or Price will destroy you 10 yards at a time. So basically we have established you can't run a true zone and you can't run a true man D........ So yesterday they ran a shallow zone with man corners and 2 deep safeties.... AKA a combo of man and zone. And shockingly enough we still got burned. This has nothing to do with the DC or Cabral or Embo.... this has to do with the fact we have lost 7/8 of the 4 deep roster at CB and lack talent on the D Line to get pressure without blitzing. Things will get better guys.... just keep supporting the players and coaches and give them some time to fix the unreal mess Dan Talkins left in boulder.

[buffsyko]

People say a lot of stuff in frustration, you have been a loyal and dedicated Buff fan long enough to have a right to be frustrated with what is going on.

I think what we are going to get in Brown is what we knew we had from the start. He is never going to be your leader as a recruiter, doesn't have the personality and isn't the salesman who connects with kids in a way that makes them identify with a school before they ever get there, we have some other guys on the roster who have that job.

What we do get is a highly respected position coach. He did develop two guys from middle of the road recruits to NFL draft choices, he coached in the NFL getting a ring and would be an NFL coach now if he wanted to be. Is he a DC, we don't know, he hasn't done it before but I'm guessing that once he has some players he will be.

If he doesn't make significant steps forward next year and in the following years then yes fire him.

As frustrated as we are I'd expect that the coaches to a man are feeling sick to their stomachs over this year. If not then they should be fired now.

I agree, and you can see the frustration. You know they are working hard and the attitude and mind set on winning will change with each day.

[BlackNGold]

Schemes do not cover up lack of talent. CU lacks talent for several reasons - One being they did not recruit well and the second being they did not develop the players once they got here. I see the amount of arm tackling going on and I want to puke - seldom do I see a shoulder put into a runner on a tackle and this has been going on for several years.

As far as coach Brown goes, I believe it is unfair to judge him on this season. The people who say he was bad at Arizona are crazy - they were Ranked #33 in total Defense last year and look at them this ( not in the top 100). As far as recruiting Brown is a solid recruiter - not on the same level as EB but not chopped liver.

We knew the defense was going to be a problem this year and with injuries and suspensions it is worst than we thought.

[White_Rabbit]

I'm hardly a Greg Brown fan right now, but it's hard to judge based on this season alone. Our defensive backfield is literally high school level. And not even Texas 5A high school, it's like New Mexico level. Jason Espinoza and Terrell Smith are getting serious minutes at corner. Those two don't have any business lining up across from a WR, especially not WRs like UW has. Some of that is talent that Greg Brown recruited, or rather, didn't, but a lot of that is on a ridiculous amount of injuries.

I understand that his recruiting sucked ass for a few years there, but people seem to like Washington so far at safety. Henderson is obviously pretty solid and before he went down, Harrington was apparently better than Henderson. Bell was also apparently looking pretty good, so.. while he has recruited the likes of Moten and Terrell Smith among others, he has recruited a few decent ones. Again, don't get me wrong, I think he should definitely get a shorter leash than other staff members because of this, but one year under these circumstances is seeming a little tough. And did I really spot Jimmy talking **** on his year at Arizona because Oregon dropped 500 yards and 48 points on his defense? C'mon now. That was literally a below average game for Oregon last year.

We also have to understand that these guys (Brown and Cabral) were here long before Hawk ever came along. They were both here during the years we're trying to get back to, so it's not like they are both tainted by Hawk. They know the kind of football we're trying to play, we're just ****ed because it can't be done with Hawk's players. That kind of leads me to questioning why Brown thought we could run a 3-4 hybrid or whatever it is we're running with a couple of 230 pound DEs. You guys want to know why we couldn't stop the run vs UW? Look no further than that imo.

Either way, I don't see Embree firing his guys one year into this thing, so I see no reason to get my hopes up for said event. Hopefully Embree isn't as hard headed as Hawk and will fire his buddies if it becomes necessary, but I don't think we're there yet.

[CUFan]

I'm not calling for anyone to be fired, but that was the most pathetic defensive performance I have seen since a D2 team played Mizzery. We obviously don't have the talent, but our guys also look completely clueless out there.

I am sick of losing, but worse I am sick of getting pummeled by average teams. I understand the frustration expressed here by Syko and others.

This program needs an enema! We need something major from the AD in support of football. These coaches aren't going to be able to do it alone. Follow the basketball model.

[Walter White]

At this point, scheme-wise, I think CU should “sell out” to stop the pass. Make ‘em beat you on the ground. At least the other team will likely be forced to run more plays and really earn their touchdowns. Death by pitch and catch is horrible. It’s too easy for the other team. They don’t even have to break a sweat.

[JimmyBuff]

That maybe the worst idea I have ever heard. Do you know how many NFL linebackers he has produced? How many other teams have a position coach with his loyalty and devotion to a program? How many schools have a position coach that have coached multiple Butkus winners and finalists? How many LB coaches in the NCAA can show up to recruit a kid wearing an NFL championship ring? How many Island kids come here because of him? Do you think there is a reason EVERY SINGLE HC for the past 2 decades has never even thought about bringing in another LB coach? Come on I know the season is rough but we expected this might take a couple years but blaming Cabral is ridiculous in my opinion


Nice to see that Cabral has a lifetime appointment as linebackers coach cause he coached some great players in the 90's...


Last I looked we have an awful talent base on the team and Cabral was part of the program the last 5 years.

[JimmyBuff]

As far as recruiting Brown is a solid recruiter
.

uh wut?

[Darth Snow]

I want to hate brown for his D... but I can't right now due to injuries. That said, this mulligan is the end of the excuse road from him. He better put a better D on the field next year, or I will want his head on a platter.

[JimmyBuff]

I want to hate brown for his D... but I can't right now due to injuries. That said, this mulligan is the end of the excuse road from him. He better put a better D on the field next year, or I will want his head on a platter.


every program has injuries. the guys we lost were not All Pac 12 type players.

[Quattro]

every program has injuries. the guys we lost were not All Pac 12 type players.Name another Pac 12 program with as many injuries and suspensions in our secondary.

[azbuff]

This board cracks me up. Did anyone seriously have us winning a single game in this four game stretch (Stanford, @UW, Oregon, @ASU)? What were we expecting? We're way too optimistic through spring ball and fall camp and way too frantically distraught after losses we should see coming. We have got to remember not to get too high or too low.

[wsp4820]

My question is, what has brown done for you? Please don't tell me jimmy smith and jalil brown. I see no reason why a 3rd string wr is covering the best wr on ashington's team none. Scott's liquid gold could cover better than our db's. We either want to do it right or just keep blaming depth. Well, you think recruits and especially "The new staff's recruits" are going to be lining up to come play for this team? People keep saying wait til embree gets his recruits in. Talent isn't coming when they keep seeing this team get blasted each week.

It's not just the secondary, it's the way our LB'S are always out of position. Just look at major, he should be making plays all over the field, instead he's 3 yds behind the de just standing there. Why can't brown come up with a way to get a 3rd down stop?

We all Knew this wasn't going to be a stellar year but please, 1-6?

I only saw parts of the first half, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Espinoza exclusively lined up against an inside receiver while Smith and Hendo covered the outside receivers. I assume the reason for this is that Espinoza is a WR who doesn't know how to play CB yet and playing on the inside is the easiest to learn quickly. Every play I saw had Smith playing left corner, possibly for similar reasons. So UW was able to effectively choose which CB covered which WRs because most (all?) of our CBs only know how to play one corner spot. My guess is that Brown knew that Espinoza was a mismatch no matter what WR he covered, so you'd prefer to at least have him in a position on the field he marginally knows how to play, rather than having him in an even weaker position with perhaps a more favorable match up with the WR.

Most of this is moot anyway, they were in zone for much of the day that I saw. So saying Espy was covering any of their WRs isn't exactly an accurate statement.

[Buffnik]

every program has injuries. the guys we lost were not All Pac 12 type players.

Exactly. And there was no depth behind them. We started with a mix of experienced guys who don't have talent along with inexperienced guys who may have talent.

Regardless...

At cornerback, we lost 6 of the 7 best that we had (Harrington, Bell, Orms, Sandersfeld, Olatoye, Vigo). If Alabama lost 6 of its 7 best corners, do you think its pass defense would get worse? Based on your posts, you don't. You would think the struggles were the fault of the coordinator's schemes.

[JimmyBuff]

Exactly. And there was no depth behind them. We started with a mix of experienced guys who don't have talent along with inexperienced guys who may have talent.

Regardless...

At cornerback, we lost 6 of the 7 best that we had (Harrington, Bell, Orms, Sandersfeld, Olatoye, Vigo). If Alabama lost 6 of its 7 best corners, do you think its pass defense would get worse? Based on your posts, you don't. You would think the struggles were the fault of the coordinator's schemes.


You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?

[Darth Snow]

You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?

How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?

[wsp4820]

How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?

Quoted for trooth.

[Duff Man]

How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?

I suppose it is possible that our first few CBs are not any better than Jason Espinoza, but there is no way I can be that cynical. Espinoza is a good Buff who is trying to make the best of a really bad situation, but I am sure even he would admit most of the injured/suspended CBs are better than him, some of them much better.

[Buffnik]

You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?

I firmly believe that we would have had a pretty good defense last year if Brown had been the DC. With Jimmy and Jalil on the outside, a healthy Perkins and a pre-injury Major, we should have been a really good pass defense (mediocre against the run). This year, I think it was hopeless.

Do I blame Brown for the recruiting? Yes.

In 2006 when we were selling a new staff, he pulled in Jimmy Smith, Chap Brown and Jalil Brown. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Jonathan Hawkins was a holdover recruit from Barnett that year.) No complaints here. If only every year could be like that.

In 2007, we should have had a pretty good class based on the way the rest of recruiting was going. We landed Anthony Perkins, Anthony Wright and Lamont Smith (who never qualified). Perkins was a solid recruit, but that was not a good class. Wasn't Wright a really good athlete who had injuries, though? Maybe this one could have been good.

In 2008, I don't think you can put blame on Dan Hawkins for recruiting because it was a very highly ranked class and the rebuilding project was looking like it was on the right track. Only getting Vince Ewing, Steven Hicks, Patrick Mahnke and Paul Vigo that year is shameful. Circle 2008 as the biggest reason our secondary's in this mess.

In 2009, I think that this is where you need to have Hawkins shoulder some of the blame. We signed Olatoye and Orms as DBs. Better talent evaluation than 2008, but still "meh".

In 2010, Jered Bell committed in November so he was a Brown guy. Terrel Smith was a late signee, so Ambrose would get the credit there. Pugh transferred to Ash, too. Really tough year to recruit to CU since Hawkins was a lame duck. Getting Bell was a pretty good snag, considering.

In 2011, we signed Clark, Harrington, Harlos, Henderson and Washington. Too early to tell, but it sounds like this is at least a class that will be able to compete with the athletes in the Pac-12. I like the early returns on Henderson, too. He's done a nice job as a true frosh.

Going forward, I'm hoping the year under Stoops when Brown was forced to put more effort into recruiting became a habit. Especially with Embree having the same level of emphasis on recruiting, it should help. Brown will never be a great recruiter, but he is a good teacher. If we've got athletes with the right attitudes, he will develop them. I think the way that Polk has gotten so much better as the year has progressed is a testament to Brown (along with an unheralded true freshman being dependable at cornerback).

I do think there was a big difference between the top few guys and the 8th guy at corner. Give me a healthy Bell at one corner and a healthy Orms at nickel with Harrington and Sandersfeld backing them up at those spots. I guarantee that we'd be a much better secondary. Not good, because we'd still be way too young. But we'd be able to compete.

[Darth Snow]

I firmly believe that we would have had a pretty good defense last year if Brown had been the DC. With Jimmy and Jalil on the outside, a healthy Perkins and a pre-injury Major, we should have been a really good pass defense (mediocre against the run). This year, I think it was hopeless.

Do I blame Brown for the recruiting? Yes.

In 2006 when we were selling a new staff, he pulled in Jimmy Smith, Chap Brown and Jalil Brown. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Jonathan Hawkins was a holdover recruit from Barnett that year.) No complaints here. If only every year could be like that.

In 2007, we should have had a pretty good class based on the way the rest of recruiting was going. We landed Anthony Perkins, Anthony Wright and Lamont Smith (who never qualified). Perkins was a solid recruit, but that was not a good class. Wasn't Wright a really good athlete who had injuries, though? Maybe this one could have been good.

In 2008, I don't think you can put blame on Dan Hawkins for recruiting because it was a very highly ranked class and the rebuilding project was looking like it was on the right track. Only getting Vince Ewing, Steven Hicks, Patrick Mahnke and Paul Vigo that year is shameful. Circle 2008 as the biggest reason our secondary's in this mess.

In 2009, I think that this is where you need to have Hawkins shoulder some of the blame. We signed Olatoye and Orms as DBs. Better talent evaluation than 2008, but still "meh".

In 2010, Jered Bell committed in November so he was a Brown guy. Terrel Smith was a late signee, so Ambrose would get the credit there. Pugh transferred to Ash, too. Really tough year to recruit to CU since Hawkins was a lame duck. Getting Bell was a pretty good snag, considering.

In 2011, we signed Clark, Harrington, Harlos, Henderson and Washington. Too early to tell, but it sounds like this is at least a class that will be able to compete with the athletes in the Pac-12. I like the early returns on Henderson, too. He's done a nice job as a true frosh.

Going forward, I'm hoping the year under Stoops when Brown was forced to put more effort into recruiting became a habit. Especially with Embree having the same level of emphasis on recruiting, it should help. Brown will never be a great recruiter, but he is a good teacher. If we've got athletes with the right attitudes, he will develop them. I think the way that Polk has gotten so much better as the year has progressed is a testament to Brown (along with an unheralded true freshman being dependable at cornerback).

I do think there was a big difference between the top few guys and the 8th guy at corner. Give me a healthy Bell at one corner and a healthy Orms at nickel with Harrington and Sandersfeld backing them up at those spots. I guarantee that we'd be a much better secondary. Not good, because we'd still be way too young. But we'd be able to compete. Polk's improvement from total waste to occasional playmaker is pretty astounding. I was calling for his head after game 2.

[dio]

He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him

[Duff Man]

Polk's improvement from total waste to occasional playmaker is pretty astounding. I was calling for his head after game 2.

Polk is getting better. Just wish we had more players at safety in general. Those guys are all mostly healthy and the depth is still scary.

[Darth Snow]

Polk is getting better. Just wish we had more players at safety in general. Those guys are all mostly healthy and the depth is still scary.

Ya... Especially since it is on the field at corner :lol:

[Buffnik]

If you would have told me before the season that nagging injuries to Brian Lockridge would change our starting lineup on defense...

(top that)

[NMBuff]

He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him

He lit up one of the Wazzou guys to stop a huge reception as well. He's progressing, but given the talent in the secondary it's forcing him to grow up faster. Still needs to be able to read the play better, but he's tenacious. He also needs to wrap up and not always go for the big hit.

[MtnBuff]

One other thing I notices against Washington that tells a little about both Polk and Espy. I saw Espy on a very regular basis checking with Polk before plays. This tells me that Espy still doesn't have a grasp on the defenses which is no surprise (except to JimmyBuff who thinks he should be at all-pro level) and also that we are seeing a leadership role out of Polk. Not only is his play getting much better but he is also taking on other responsibilities.

[Mick Ronson]

If you would have told me before the season that nagging injuries to Brian Lockridge would change our starting lineup on defense...

(top that)

how about PRich, Speedy and Smart all out in week 7?

[CUFan]

I still want to see more out of Polk. He has the talent, but he is out of position too often.

[Wyo Buff]

He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him


I remember that play. My 13-year old son and I were laughing because he actually hit someone like that while they were within the boundaries of the playing field! Hope springs eternal!!!

[The Guest]

I remember that play. My 13-year old son and I were laughing because he actually hit someone like that while they were within the boundaries of the playing field! Hope springs eternal!!!

Wasn't there a roughing the passer call on that play. Hope, my ass!

Okay, I'm better now. I'm still here, I'm still cheering, I'm still on board.

[Shldr2Shldr]

That maybe the worst idea I have ever heard. Do you know how many NFL linebackers he has produced? How many other teams have a position coach with his loyalty and devotion to a program? How many schools have a position coach that have coached multiple Butkus winners and finalists? How many LB coaches in the NCAA can show up to recruit a kid wearing an NFL championship ring? How many Island kids come here because of him? Do you think there is a reason EVERY SINGLE HC for the past 2 decades has never even thought about bringing in another LB coach? Come on I know the season is rough but we expected this might take a couple years but blaming Cabral is ridiculous in my opinion

100% agree.

For all you that wanna boot Cabral, who do we bring into replace him? Who out there has had the type of success he has had in the past? The Lb's may not be very good right now, I do agree with that, but what does he have to work with right now? Some 2* and low 3* talent? The type of recruits that Cabral used to work with, were nasty, talented, team oriented, high character, and hard working athletes. To be a great line backer i think you need all those attributes. I honestly dont know if we have a LB playing right now that does.

[azbuff]

100% agree.

For all you that wanna boot Cabral, who do we bring into replace him? Who out there has had the type of success he has had in the past? The Lb's may not be very good right now, I do agree with that, but what does he have to work with right now? Some 2* and low 3* talent? The type of recruits that Cabral used to work with, were nasty, talented, team oriented, high character, and hard working athletes. To be a great line backer i think you need all those attributes. I honestly dont know if we have a LB playing right now that does.

Agree that firing Cabral should not cross any Buff fan's mind anytime soon. But you have to admit that the lack of talent Cabral has to work with is at least partially his own fault.

[96 Buff]

We really don't know what handcuffs D2 put on Brown & Cabral during recruiting under that simpleton's tenure. I really hope the rest of this class turns out strong.

[MtnBuff]

We really don't know what handcuffs D2 put on Brown & Cabral during recruiting under that simpleton's tenure. I really hope the rest of this class turns out strong.

Correct, I have mentioned this before.

Hawk controlled where and who we recruited. Can't blame they guys who didn't make the decisions.

[Duff Man]

I do not want Cabral fired at all, but a LB coach is not irreplaceable.

[Liver]

can we just let the staff try to put their system in place? right or wrong, embree is a leader and he has a vision. can't we at least see more than half a season before we start screaming for heads to roll?

i am not convinced he's the right guy or that particular assistants are beyond reproach, but they are just getting started. this team was not exactly plug and play. look at what they are working with.

[Darth Snow]

yup yup. I have a feeling this staff excels at closing. Should be an exciting january/feb.

[Ozbuff]

100% agree.

For all you that wanna boot Cabral, who do we bring into replace him? Who out there has had the type of success he has had in the past? The Lb's may not be very good right now, I do agree with that, but what does he have to work with right now? Some 2* and low 3* talent? The type of recruits that Cabral used to work with, were nasty, talented, team oriented, high character, and hard working athletes. To be a great line backer i think you need all those attributes. I honestly dont know if we have a LB playing right now that does.

Doesn't Rippy fit the bill? We could use some more depth though. I'm excited to see how Greer develops.