Irish reconsidering Big Ten?

[UrbanaBuff]

While I don't think it affects CU that much, this could have a big impact on conference realignment...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4979435

 

[absinthe]

that would be titanic.

Could you Imagine if they pulled ND, texas, and Rutgers to that Conference?

 

[sackman]

that would be titanic.

Could you Imagine if they pulled ND, texas, and Rutgers to that Conference?

I would care about them even less than I do already?

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Sounds like they'd probably have to be almost forced into this, like a scenario where the BCS bowls only end up taking teams from the 4 or 5 power conferences left standing after all the dust settles.

On another note, why the **** do they get money from the BCS every year?

 

[SuperD]

I'm not so sure I'd dismiss it as not effecting CU. If the Big 10 gets Notre Dame, they may be content to stand pat at 12 teams. Which means no raid on the Big 12. Meaning CU is the only team that would potentially leave. If the Big 12 is able to stand pat without a major shakeup will the PAC 10 be able to put together a revenue package that makes it financially viable to leave the Big 12? The PAC 10 region already has some factors working against it that make it more difficult to put together a tv package that can compete with the SEC / Big 10, not the least of which is time zones. Also, if only one team goes the Big 12 can threaten to replace us with BYU, further diluting the value that the PAC 10 gets from adding Utah.

Now if the Big 10 is not going to be content with 12 even if its Notre Dame than this is going to get very interesting very quickly. For them to even be sending signals, Notre Dame must have been convinced that the Big 10 / PAC 10 were going for a major shakeup that had a chance to leave them without a seat at the dance. The Big 10 only adding one school doesn't really do that, and neither does the PAC 10 going to 12. I'm wondering if both conferences really are considering going bigger. Also, the big schools that Notre Dame usually plays each year (other than the service academies) are in the Big 10 and Pac 10. I wonder if there is more coordination going on behind the scenes then we know, i.e. an ultimatum to play ball with us or take your ball and go home...meaning no more matches with USC, Michigan, etc. Notre Dame loves the exposure they get from their position as a "national" school, but that only works if the big boys are willing to play you and give you that exposure. They're not going to get it by cobbling together a schedule of the service academies and 2nd tier schools. I don't think we'll see any of the SEC teams dying to schedule Notre Dame any time soon, so if the PAC 10 and the Big 10 threaten to cut them off it'd be a pretty serious threat.

 

[SuperD]

Also...all the article says is their AD is spending 50% of his time talking to people about expansion. It doesn't say he's only talking to the Big 10. Everyone assumes it would be the Big 10, but if Notre Dame signals they are in play I'd be suprised if the PAC 10 didn't make a big push for them as well. They have a pretty long history of playing the Irish, particularly USC. However, Notre Dame may be a tougher sell to the PAC 10 presidents due to it being a religious affiliated school (read Stanford/Cal veto), but the revenue and prestige factor may overcome that. Notre Dame is a far cry from Baylor or BYU, but some of the fundamental issues with political beliefs and academic freedom are still going to be an issue. Given current economic conditions and the state of higher ed funding it has become abundantly obvious to the administrators running the big state schools that athletics are going to need to be completely self-sufficient, which means maximizing TV revenue. If Notre Dame is gettable, then everyone will pursue them, potentially taking a spot from one of the other schools that would have gotten it otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 807]

that would be titanic.

Could you Imagine if they pulled ND, texas, and Rutgers to that Conference?

The bias from the media would crank up another notch. Top 25 rankings, heisman voting and televison time would be even more terrible than it is now. Western fan bases would be in the shadow of the two eastern superconferences. You know the SEC would be snapping up some combination of A&M, OU, Florida State and Miami if that happens.

CU would be student body left into the 12Pac. What's left of the B12, Big East and ACC would be desperate to patch something together. The MWC, WAC, Conf USA and other second tier groupings would be in a world of hurt.

 

[UrbanaBuff]

But as it stands, no other conference could even come close to paying what the Big Ten can. Add in geography and numerous historical rivals, and the BT is in the driver's seat. That said, ND may be forced to do this.

Consider this...

The BT decides that it's going to expand to 14 taking all three new schools from the Big East... say Pitt, Cuse & Rutgers. ND remains stubborns and is left out of the expansion. The Big East falls apart as the basketball only schools link up with various Atlantic 10 and Missouri Valley programs, while the few remaining Big East football schools raid C-USA and the MAC to cobble together a mediocre football conference. What's Notre Dame to do? Follow DePaul and Marquette, playing St. Joseph's and Dayton in basketball every year? Or even less enticingly, winding up in a mainly football conference with such great draws as Buffalo and Marshall? Wouldn't it make so much more sense to just take the money and join the Big Ten?

Notre Dame football can exist as an independent. Notre Dame's other sports simply cannot. Which is a bigger drop in prestige... joining the Big Ten in all sports, or remaining an independent in football and having the rest of your sports play in a reformed mid-major conference? If the BT concludes that it will either take Notre Dame or expand in such a way that will decimate the Big East, ND will have a tough decision on its hands...

 

[CarolinaBuff]

I wouldn't rule out the Big East as a conference that ND might join in football. I've felt this way since they turned down the Big 10, and they'd do so as a cop-out move because it would be an easy conference for them to win in most years. Cincy is not going to remain up top and ND has been at one of the low points in their history over the past few seasons. This way ND can say they now play in a BCS conference even though it's not one of the top-tier conferences in the nation. They don't want to play Big 10 schools week-in and week-out because they know it'll be extremely tough. Sure they regularly play 3 Big 10 schools, but they also don't have to routinely go to places like Columbus, Madison, Iowa City, or State College. They could also use the cop-out excuse that they're already in the Big East in basketball, so it's only natural for them to join full-fledged in football too. And the Big East would be so giddy to have them they'd let them keep their NBC contract and most of the revenue associated with it.

 

[Buffnik]

If the Big East landed Notre Dame, I could actually see them getting Boston College back from the ACC. If that happened, it would be a very strong 10-team conference. And I think you have to look at Army & Navy to make 12 (big national ratings, geographically appropriate, good for the overall academic prestige of the conference and it would make Notre Dame happy).

 

[CarolinaBuff]

If the Big East landed Notre Dame, I could actually see them getting Boston College back from the ACC. If that happened, it would be a very strong 10-team conference. And I think you have to look at Army & Navy to make 12 (big national ratings, geographically appropriate, good for the overall academic prestige of the conference and it would make Notre Dame happy).

Sure it would, because it would give ND 2 easy games on their schedule.

 

[ScottyBuff]

The ACC is the first school to negotiate a new TV contract. They are not as weak as everyone thinks they are.

If Notre Dame were to consider any other conference besides the Big Ten it would not be the Big East or Pac-10, it would be the ACC.

If the ACC were to jump the gun on the "super-conference" trend by snaggin Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and either Rutgers or UConn they would be in a very strong position.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I'm just being nostalgic here, but I would really hate to see Notre Dame of all schools in a conference called the Atlantic Coastal Conference. Just like I would hate to see Texas in the Pacific 10. I know money rules all, but that would just be weird.

 

[ScottyBuff]

I'm just being nostalgic here, but I would really hate to see Notre Dame of all schools in a conference called the Atlantic Coastal Conference. Just like I would hate to see Texas in the Pacific 10. I know money rules all, but that would just be weird.

Maybe they would require it to be renamed American Catholic Conference (still the ACC!).

 

[CarolinaBuff]

The ACC is the first school to negotiate a new TV contract. They are not as weak as everyone thinks they are.

If Notre Dame were to consider any other conference besides the Big Ten it would not be the Big East or Pac-10, it would be the ACC.

If the ACC were to jump the gun on the "super-conference" trend by snaggin Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and either Rutgers or UConn they would be in a very strong position.

I recall about 8-10 years ago or something like that where the ACC was talking about bringing in ND and only requiring them to play a partial conference schedule in football. It was a ridiculous idea and it never got very serious consideration. I found a link to it:

http://www.fanblogs.com/acc/002793.php

 

[CarolinaBuff]

If the Big East landed Notre Dame, I could actually see them getting Boston College back from the ACC. If that happened, it would be a very strong 10-team conference. And I think you have to look at Army & Navy to make 12 (big national ratings, geographically appropriate, good for the overall academic prestige of the conference and it would make Notre Dame happy).

I could see that because BC is a terrible fit in the ACC.

 

[UrbanaBuff]

I'm not convinced ND would prefer to join an inferior conference for an easier path to the BCS. ND's supreme arrogance is what's keeping it independent. They would be swallowing pride to join a conference, so why would they go with the weaker of those two conference options? Plus, if they pull the trigger, I'm sure they want to make damn certain the conference is profitable and stable, two things that the Big East lacks. ND probably thinks it can win in any conference it joins, so why wouldn't it join the best?

 

[CarolinaBuff]

I'm not convinced ND would prefer to join an inferior conference for an easier path to the BCS. ND's supreme arrogance is what's keeping it independent. They would be swallowing pride to join a conference, so why would they go with the weaker of those two conference options? Plus, if they pull the trigger, I'm sure they want to make damn certain the conference is profitable and stable, two things that the Big East lacks. ND probably thinks it can win in any conference it joins, so why wouldn't it join the best?

If ND were to join the Big East they know that the conference would suddenly become stable. Plus they would be able to call the shots and hold the conference for ransom if need-be, which is a position they'd relish. On the contrary they'd be just another member in the Big 10. Now that's something their arrogance couldn't handle.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I can easily see them taking the easy road and going for the easier conference. BCS game by beating West Virginia and Cincinnati every year, or BCS game by beating Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc every year? And no way does ND get the Big East BCS game shaft if they go undefeated like Cincy did last year.

 

[somebody]

I'm not so sure I'd dismiss it as not effecting CU. If the Big 10 gets Notre Dame, they may be content to stand pat at 12 teams. Which means no raid on the Big 12. Meaning CU is the only team that would potentially leave. If the Big 12 is able to stand pat without a major shakeup will the PAC 10 be able to put together a revenue package that makes it financially viable to leave the Big 12? The PAC 10 region already has some factors working against it that make it more difficult to put together a tv package that can compete with the SEC / Big 10, not the least of which is time zones. Also, if only one team goes the Big 12 can threaten to replace us with BYU, further diluting the value that the PAC 10 gets from adding Utah.

Now if the Big 10 is not going to be content with 12 even if its Notre Dame than this is going to get very interesting very quickly. For them to even be sending signals, Notre Dame must have been convinced that the Big 10 / PAC 10 were going for a major shakeup that had a chance to leave them without a seat at the dance. The Big 10 only adding one school doesn't really do that, and neither does the PAC 10 going to 12. I'm wondering if both conferences really are considering going bigger. Also, the big schools that Notre Dame usually plays each year (other than the service academies) are in the Big 10 and Pac 10. I wonder if there is more coordination going on behind the scenes then we know, i.e. an ultimatum to play ball with us or take your ball and go home...meaning no more matches with USC, Michigan, etc. Notre Dame loves the exposure they get from their position as a "national" school, but that only works if the big boys are willing to play you and give you that exposure. They're not going to get it by cobbling together a schedule of the service academies and 2nd tier schools. I don't think we'll see any of the SEC teams dying to schedule Notre Dame any time soon, so if the PAC 10 and the Big 10 threaten to cut them off it'd be a pretty serious threat.

I could that giving CU leverage - less reason to leave = more incentive required.

 

[UrbanaBuff]

Ok, but they wouldn't win the conference every year, even in the BE. So what happens in those "down" years? Would you rather be 8-4 in 5th place in the Big Ten or Big East?

 

[OKCBuff]

I can easily see them taking the easy road and going for the easier conference. BCS game by beating West Virginia and Cincinnati every year, or BCS game by beating Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc every year? And no way does ND get the Big East BCS game shaft if they go undefeated like Cincy did last year.

Well, a BE move would be easy to mask. "We've been in the league for years in all other sports and just felt this was the natural next step for the school."

 

[Buffnik]

Well, a BE move would be easy to mask. "We've been in the league for years in all other sports and just felt this was the natural next step for the school."

I believe they like all the catholic schools in the BE too. It will come down to money, though.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Well, a BE move would be easy to mask. "We've been in the league for years in all other sports and just felt this was the natural next step for the school."

Exactly. It would be a cop-out and this would be their excuse.

 

[OKCBuff]

If forced, I would see them do that before anything else -- even if it meant surrendering some of their rivalries -- because they could win that conference 7 out of 10 years and be in the BCS automatically. With each successive season NOT making the BCS, the Notre Dame brass look at this more and more. If the BE would allow ND to keep 75 percent of the money from a BCS bowl, I bet it happens. Especially if BC re-joined and then ND would have a traditional rival in the league and three non-con spots.

 

[sackman]

Guys, ND sucks. The idea that they'd dominate any legitimate BCS conference, or the Big East for that matter, is ludicrous. They aren't going to dominate anybody. All they would do as a football member in the Big East would be to help provide a boatload of money to the conference. The Big East does nothing for ND, football wise. It doesn't give them any more money, it doesn't give them a better chance of success, it doesn't gain them any new recruiting areas, it doesn't provide them access to television markets they don't already have. If ND joins a conference, it will be the Big 10. The Big 10 provides more revenue to them and allows them to keep playing many of their traditional rivalry games. It's just a matter of whether they want to be there or whether their hand is forced.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

If forced, I would see them do that before anything else -- even if it meant surrendering some of their rivalries -- because they could win that conference 7 out of 10 years and be in the BCS automatically. With each successive season NOT making the BCS, the Notre Dame brass look at this more and more. If the BE would allow ND to keep 75 percent of the money from a BCS bowl, I bet it happens. Especially if BC re-joined and then ND would have a traditional rival in the league and three non-con spots.

And that's the type of concession the BE would be willing to give them, whereas the Big 10 certainly wouldn't. I'm sure the BE would also be willing to let them keep their NBC contract and keep a good share of that money instead of sharing it in a fair and equal way throughout the conference.

 

[ScottyBuff]

A "behind the scenes" factor that I think is also affecting these discussions is that the potential for the BCS to broken up, or altered by not being a "national championship" title game could mean that things return to the old days as far as bowl games go, or that four super-conferences formulate a "+1" method of having a national championship, meaning that if you aren't in one of the four big conferences you have NO chance of playing for a national title, even if you are Notre Dame.

 

[UrbanaBuff]

Ding ding ding! Notre Dame is too good for the Big East. A proud program joining a bad conference would serve to water down said program. Why would they ever associate themselves with football schools such as South Florida and Cincinnati, who a few years back weren't even in BCS conferences? It's a lose/lose. If they win the BE, people will minimize their efforts since its a bad conference. If they finish anywhere below 2nd place, people will completely write them off and they fall out of national favor. Besides, this doesn't even mention the poor TV deal and economics of the BE.

Remember when Miami was the only good team in that conference, and people always wondered if they were really THAT good, since they played Rutgers and Temple regularly?

The Big East does nothing for ND, football wise. It doesn't give them any more money, it doesn't give them a better chance of success, it doesn't gain them any new recruiting areas, it doesn't provide them access to television markets they don't already have. .

 

[SINKRATZ]

As it stands, ND only needs to win 9 games to qualify for a BCS bowl, and because of their national following they're all but assured of being selected when they do win 9.

So I disagree that they'd have an easier shot at the BCS as a member of the BE - 9 wins isn't going to win the Big East in most years.