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Very good article by Brooks. There's a glaring difference between how Tomlinson and Ski deal with a loss. Also, Boyle uses Krause's letter grades system for evaluating each player for each game. Anyone on here familiar with Krause?
Category: Men's Basketball
Some Buffs like freshman guard Askia Booker want the ugly memory of their 65-54 loss against Wyoming kept fresh, reminding how it felt to be kicked around for a half on their home court.
Originally posted by CUBuffs.com
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Very good article by Brooks. There's a glaring difference between how Tomlinson and Ski deal with a loss. Also, Boyle uses Krause's letter grades system for evaluating each player for each game. Anyone on here familiar with Krause?
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Not familiar at all, it took me a few mnutes of googling to figure out this wasn't the former chicago bulls gm jerry krause. I like that boyle is evaluating players using tempo free stats (rebounds per minute was mentioned). I am very interested in how this letter grading of players works, i am going to do some research and see if i can figure out how they are doing this.Originally Posted by Buffnik
I have said this before and will continue to, BG Brooks does a great job on cubuffs.com
I have done some research (this included trolling Gonzaga and Eastern Washington message boards and diving deep in the internet archives) to find anything on Jerry Krause's evaluation method that Tad is using, I actually found something and it appears to be a simplified method of a plus minus.
Here is the formula:
It is called the "individual efficiency rating"
IER =[Points scored + 2(rebounds) + 2(assists) +2(recoveries) +2(zag plays)]/[(Fields goals missed) +2(ft's missed) + (personal fouls) +2(turnovers)]
A+ 3.0 and above A 2.8-2.99 A- 2.60-2.79 B+ 2.40-2.59 B+ 2.20-2.39 B- 2.00-2.19 C+ 1.80-1.99 C+ 1.60-1.79 C- 1.40-1.59 D 1.00-1.39
Zag plays are defined as hustle plays, defensive charges and great offensive or defensive plays. Recoveries aren't defined, but I would imagine that is getting a steal, a loose ball or saving a ball from going out. It also states that these two methods can be left out and tailored per team. If you look at these numbers being applied in history to NBA players it is kind of scary, this article was written in 2008, but Ben Wallace has the highest career IER. Some of the other names on the list are ok, but this doesn't pass the eye test.
I ran the numbers on the Wyoming game (below) to how they match up with Win Shares and Adjusted +/-, my impression off the bat is that this isn't a great evaluation metric. Win Shares is a way better metric, it actually weights these stats, adjusts for opponents and credits marginal performance of an overall game. Adjusted +/- obviously isn't a complete metric as it only evaluates offense, but that is being worked on to include defense and I can tell you hands down that will be a better metric than the IER because it includes tempo free stats. I get why people like this, assigning letter grades to the numbers makes it easy to comprehend, but it would be just as easy to assign letter grades to Win Shares or Adjusted +/-. That being said, I will probably start including these numbers to see how these guys are grading out using Boyle's evaluation method.
Wyoming Game Grades
Spencer DinWiddie A+ Andre Roberson C+ Carlon Brown C+ Austin Dufault F Nate Tomlinson D Askia Booker D Shane Harris-Tunks C+ Damiene Cain C+ Jeremy Adams F Sabatino Chen B-
Last edited by jgisland; 12-19-2011 at 03:55 PM.
Ymssr.
I got him. Amazing stuff.
We should figure out a way to get jgisland a meeting with CU coaches.
Agreed, Brooks is excellent in his coverage....and your research on Krause's system is amazing. I heard of it a few years back when I was following Matt Bouldin( from Thunder Ridge HS) who played for Gonzaga, and some of the guys on the Zag forums would talk about his crazy high grades in the Krause analysis. And you're right, for some folks, seeing letter grades is easier as opposed to a slew of numbers and figuring what the cutoffs are from poor to excellent play. Do you have it computerized, meaning just enter the data and it spits out the grades/numbers? I'd be interested seeing each game and then a current running total.... as if you ain't busy enough, lol.....
that's a great idea.....if you can get it to Boyle, he would eat this stuff up...I remember he used to have one of his assistants at UNC keep track of deflections that led to steals, the logic being that many times the player awarded the steal stat did not originally generate it. Also if not Boyle, Coach P would be the man to approach as he is a degreed Physicist! Let us know how it goes....
ymssr. REP THIS MAN.
And The Mayor is gonna be our MVP this year. If only because he will be taking Tomlinson's minutes...
Yeah I am going to run the numbers for the earlier games this season today, this isn't too bad to do, I setup excel to spit out the grades once I import the box scores. The people over on the Gonzaga forum don't seem to love this evaluation method, saying how Adam Morrison and John Stockton didn't fare very well using this method.
Well, it doesn't give you points for running the offense. Plus, I've never understood how Basketball defines an "assist" cause sometimes it won't count pretty obvious assists.
one player at B or better.
Austin Dufault: F
Only one player DESERVED a B or better for Wyoming. Spencer was the man.
You better show some respect. You may call him "The Mayor." However, informally, Mr. Dinwiddie is acceptable.
I am going to add these into that Win Shares/Adjusted +/- Sticky Thread and update through out the season, but here it is as well season to date.
Player Ft.Lewis Wichita St. Maryland W. Michigan Air Force Georgia CSU Fresno St Wyoming Nate Tomlinson A- D C+ A+ A+ F B A+ D Andre Roberson A+ C A+ C A+ A+ D A+ C+ Spencer DinWiddie C+ A+ F A+ D A+ B- B- A+ Austin Dufault A+ A+ A+ A+ B- F B C F Carlon Brown D B+ C A B- B- D D C+ Askia Booker C+ A+ B- C+ C A+ D F D Jeremy Adams DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP F C+ B F Shane Harris-Tunks F D B C+ D D C+ B+ C+ Sabatino Chen B A+ B+ D F B- F F B- Damiene Cain DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP C C+ Shannon Sharpe D F F F F DNP DNP A+ DNP Ben Mills D DNP DNP F DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP Beau Webb DNP F DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP Trey Eckloff A+ DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP
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