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2012: Talent Gain or Talent Drain?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Aug 9, 2012.

?

"Talent Gain" or "Talent Drain"?

  1. Gain

    62 vote(s)
    93.9%
  2. Drain

    4 vote(s)
    6.1%
  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Something I like to look at every year is what we brought in for recruits and transfers versus what we lost to graduation and attrition.

    Did we get better or worse?

    Does your opinion change when you look at just the offense or just the defense?

    Are there any position groups that stand out to you?

    Any position groups we wished we had recruited harder for the 2012 class? Full class, so where could the numbers have gone down if we had?

    (Grayshirts not included on list since they don't join team until 2013. Non-Scholarship players not included.)

    QB Losses:
    Tyler Hansen
    Bren Burnett

    QB Additions:
    Jordan Webb (Jr)
    Connor Wood (So)
    Shane Dillon (Fr)

    RB Losses:
    Brian Lockridge
    Rodney Stewart

    RB Additions:
    Donta Abron (Fr)
    Terrence Crowder (Fr)
    Davien Payne (Fr)

    FB Losses:
    Tyler Ahles (had to play LB after injuries)
    Evan Harrington

    FB Additions:
    Clay Norgard
    Christian Powell

    WR Losses:
    Toney Clemons
    Jason Espinoza (had to play CB after injuries)
    Logan Gray
    Austin Vincent

    WR Additions:
    Gerald Thomas
    Jeffrey Thomas

    TE Losses:
    Cordary Allen
    Ryan Deehan

    TE Additions:
    Vincent Hobbs
    Sean Irwin
    Austin Ray

    OL Losses:
    Ethan Adkins
    Paulay Asiata
    Blake Behrens
    Shawn Daniels
    Ryan Miller
    Sione Tau

    OL Additions:
    Jeromy Irwin
    Alex Kelley

    DT Losses:
    Curtis Cunningham
    Conrad Obi

    DT Additions:
    Tyler Henington
    Kory Rasmussen
    Justin Solis
    Josh Tupou

    DE Losses:
    David Goldberg (DE/OLB)
    Josh Hartigan (DE/OLB)
    Tony Poremba

    DE Additions:
    Samson Kofavalu
    John Stuart
    De'Jon Wilson

    LB Losses:
    Jermane Clark
    Patrick Mahnke
    Liloa Nobriga

    LB Additions:
    none

    CB Losses:
    Jonathan Hawkins
    Travis Sandersfeld

    CB Additions:
    Kenneth Crawley
    Jeffrey Hall
    John Walker
    Yuri Wright

    S Losses:
    Vince Ewing
    Arthur Jaffee

    S Additions:
    Marques Mosley
     
  2. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    I think we clearly got better on the DL, DB and at TE. Our most noticeable drain is at OL where losing Miller and the shear amount of guys decreased our overall depth. I would like to see you do a two year breakdown as well.
     
  3. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    What about the WRs? I don't think we really lost that much last year when it comes to the WR corps.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I think OL is a bit deceptive from a depth standpoint. Behrens and Daniels had injury issues and couldn't contribute and Tau's weight caused the same problems. Adkins, Asiata and Miller are the focus there. While I like Irwin and Kelley, though, that's replacing 2 starters who are now in the League and an underclassman who was expected to be a starter this year based on his talent. I would have to call it a drain even with the adjustments.
     
  5. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    this is really tough to say until we see them play, so I am going to say talent drain and hoped to be proved wrong.
     
  6. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    Slight OL drain, WR drain - gain every where else
     
  7. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    clemons was drafted and you might as well include RIchardson on the list. I'd say offense (drain) Defense (gain).
     
  8. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I voted Drain...we got new starters at RB, FB, WRs, QB, and TE. I want to be wrong on this one.
     
  9. Rraalph 3000

    Rraalph 3000 Well-Known Member

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    Gain at pretty much every position in my opinion.....the more kids we lose that were engrained with the HaLk attitude the quicker it will help the program move past the psychological "we're gonna lose"/"we can't win on the road" mentality that was created
     
  10. BuffClass90

    BuffClass90 Banned BANNED

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    It's hard to compare kids with 4 years experience to newbies. But based on pure athletic ability, I think we have a talent gain. Just one unqualified couch potato's view...
     
  11. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    really hard to tell at most positions because the guys we have coming in haven't even put on pads yet.... but given the performance of last year's senior class... I would say it has to be a clear gain even if the 2011 class doesn't live up to its full potential.
     
  12. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I'm gonna say drain. But that is because I took the question to mean in the short term. While the incoming players may be better(and we don't know because for every Speedy there is a Marcus Houston), the losses of TH at QB, Miller and Adkins on the OL, Speedy at RB, Clemons at WR and Obi and Cunningham at DT are going to outweight the gains we get from the incoming frosh. The fact we are even discussing whether one class of incoming freshmen will be a net talent gain says a lot about where CU is right now.....
     
  13. Buff_since76

    Buff_since76 Still a fan... Club Member

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    I answered based solely on the question of "talent". I believe we lost a lot of experience with those who departed, but the athleticism and talent of those that are coming in are better in most cases.

    There are only two players who finished that I believe are more talented than those we brought in. Miller and Clemons. Clemons always had talent, and after he got his head on straight he showed it on the field. I don't know if the WR we brought in are more talented than he is. Miller was/is a talent, and I am not sure if either OL has more talent than he does.
     
  14. XIIfan

    XIIfan Member

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    Overall, I think we gain on both O and D, but I'm nervous about a the o-line and RB. We tend to get down on Speedy for not being the stud that CU has had in the past, but he carried the load for 4 years. Tough to replace that in one season.
     
  15. Ozbuff

    Ozbuff Member

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    I think we'll miss Harrington at FB. Based on his development in the system last year, I think he would have been really good this year. Powell and Norgard seem to have a lot of potential, but not sure how good they'll be as true freshmen. T Clem is also a big loss, particularly in light of P Rich's injury.
     
  16. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    I see a drain only at WR based on talent alone.

    If we are incorporating experience, then my analysis is probably pretty different.
     
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Yeah. If we're including the experience and age-based physical/mental development aspects then it's pretty much always going to be a Drain. I'm talking talent. Are we bigger, faster and more skilled with the new players versus the ones who have departed?
     
  18. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Yes. Without a doubt, except mAYBE at WR. The two thomas's are getting a lot of hype.

    At RB, although speedy was amazing, the trio of backs (and the two FB) are definitely making us bigger and faster. The skill is where we need to wait and see.

    DL - GAIN
    OL - loss
    QB - Gain (sorry Tyler, you were HaLkized). Plus, depth!
    DB - GAIN
    LB - Loss (not a big one though thanks to depth chart stuf)
    TE - Gain (ugh what a bad unit this was last year - Kasa stepping in and playing right away was alll you need to know about how bad it was)
     
  19. ElCunado

    ElCunado Club Member Club Member

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    If you look at it strictly from a potential standpoint, huge gain.
     
  20. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Yep on TE. Deehan was the biggest disappointment to me last year. From the missed assignment on the 4th down play that cost us a game to pretty much losing his job to a DE (Kasa), WR (Thornton) and OG (Lewis) by the end of the season... it was pretty bad.
     
  21. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    fify. The purest expression and epitome of a HaLk player (or what HaLk mentality did to his players) that you will ever see.
     
  22. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    Which game was that again?
     
  23. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I'm thankful I didn't watch every CU game last season. Def a gain in the talent department.
     
  24. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    WSU I believe.
     
  25. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

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    QB: drain. Until proven otherwise, Hansen's competitiveness is the difference here. Yes, there is more depth, but I want to see what that means come game time.

    RB: drain. Losing Stewart's talent and production; can any of the newcomers replace this (this year)?

    FB: tie. Harrington got better as the year wore on, but both frosh appear to be more talented and either could contribute very early.

    WR: drain. The Thomas duo (together) are prolly more talented than the 4 (together) who left, but I don't think either is as good (now) as Clemons. They will be in time.

    TE: gain. Deehan was hyped, but didn't live up to expectations. Allen was a man without a position. Any of the 3 will be an improvement.

    OL: drain. I'm only considering Miller here, since he's the only one who really produced. However, both newbies need time to grow and develop. A few years down the road -- I think both these players will be solid.

    DT: gain. CC was undersized but a gamer. Obi was hurt and didn't come on until his SR year. I think Solis and Tupou upgrade the position this year.

    DE: tie. Would have gone gain if TKO had qualified. Stuart will prolly R/S, but Samson AND De'Jon should see quite a bit of PT this year.

    LB: drain. By simple math alone.

    CB: gain. We could have a very special defensive backfield for the next several years.

    S: gain. Mosley seems to "get it"; he's working hard to learn from experienced players. He's also more gifted than the 2 who departed.


    just my 2 cents worth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  26. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    Skippy's teams had that problem, too.
     
  27. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I think the LB #s = gain for the 3 returned schollies.
     
  28. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    QB: Gain
    RB: Gain
    FB: Gain
    WR: Loss
    TE: Gain.
    OL: Gain
    DE: Push
    DL: Gain
    LB: Push
    CB: Gain
    S: Gain

    Gain: 8
    Loss: 1
    Push: 2
     
  29. CUAviator

    CUAviator Well-Known Member

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    Is it blasphemy to say that I was totally unimpressed with Miller? Not one time did I watch a game and think, "wow, thank goodness miller was in there". And sorry, but the same thing for Speedy. He got yards...but that's because there was no one else to give/get the ball to. Not being able to get the short yards when it really mattered is what drove me nuts. And as for Hansen, a true buff, was "halkinized". When the game needed Hansen to take it by the balls and get it done, he didn't. Ergo, I vote GAIN across the board.
     
  30. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Miller was not perfect, but do you expect his replacement to outperform him? If so, not very realistic. Speedy was not perfect, but it was more than just him being the only option. He earned plenty of carries/yards with production.
     

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