cubuffs85
Active Member
Beating UofA would be great for this program, even if we lose in the Championship.
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#5 Colorado vs. #1 Arizona - Friday, 7pm MST - Let's talk about it
- Thread starter pachoops
- Start date
cubuffs85
Active Member
Yeah not really much of a question to me especially given our lack of Tournament resume. Fairly or unfairly, you're ultimately judged by how well you do in the Dance.
I just LOVE how U of A fans believe that college basketball started in 1983, because that's when their "tradition" started.
Guess what pussycat? By the time your "vaunted" program first reached the Final Four of the NCAA tourney in 1988, CU had already been there TWICE (in 1942 and 1955). In addition, CU WON the NIT championship in 1942 ... which, if you ACTUALLY knew anything about college basketball, was considered by far the prominent college post-season tourney well into the 1950's.
And in addition to all that ... need I remind you that IN THE VERY FIRST YEAR CU WAS IN THE PAC 12, we won the goddam championship. You may remember that, due to the little fact that we beat you 2 out of 3 that year on our way to that title.
So ... please feel free to take your condescending and entirely undeserved sense of "tradition" and "level" ... and shove it up your ass.
Have a nice day! :thumbsup:
cubuffs85
Active Member
We got our work cut out for us. As far as I'm concerned we're playing with house $$$. If we win, it's great. If we lose, we still go to the tournament. UofA is clearly the better team. Just a single game, in a best of 5 we wouldn't stand much of a chance.
Buffs are on the edge of an 8 or 9. Beating Arizona would eliminate any "post Spencer" seeding penalty while driving our RPI to around 25... before playing another Top 50 RPI in the P12 final. It's not just the win. It's also the stuff that will happen around it as the dominoes fall.
Look at it another way: if the Buffs ended up as Pac-12 tournament champions (25-10, Top 20 SOS, Top 25 RPI, 6-7 record vs RPI Top 50, worst loss @ Washington - #99 right now - the game Dinwiddie went down)... what seed do you think that should equate to? I think it would be hard to keep us off the 5 line if that happened.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Basically I don't see them moving up 9 spots on the S-Curve going with the 9 to 6 as you initially stated. Going from an 8 to 6, I don't think would happen based on one game, but it's more plausible (possibly just 5 spots). And yeah good point with the bubble being evolving, I think it take a lot for that dramatic shift.
I think we're a 9 right now to answer your question so close to where you have them, I think we could get to a 6 as our ceiling if we win the P12 Tourney. If we beat UofA but lose in the Finals I'm thinking we're an 8, possibly 7.
Also, I'm not sure how much what we do this week really matters, many our of the opinion the conference tourneys can only help you minimally aside from a run to the finals or the automatic bids.
That's quite mean. Unlike KSU, Zona HAS actually won stuff.
Buffs are held back more by perception than resume right now. That's my main reason for seeing a dramatic shift. Probably the most similar resume to CU's is Memphis. Lunardi, for example, has them as a 7 and CU as a 10. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Hell, our resume was better than Iowa's a week ago when they were a 6 seed. Iowa's dropping pretty fast now.
cubuffs85
Active Member
The difference between 7 and 10 isn't much to begin with. When the brackets get released on Sunday, there's going to be some unfairness, you can count on that and lots of whining from various fans.
If you think the "perception" is going to have them going from a 9 to a 6 based off one victory in a game that isn't even widely available to most of the country and staying there with a loss the next day, more power to you. I completely disagree with this assessment. I'm sure the committee has talked about if CU wins tomorrow, how many spots up should they be and answer I don't believe is atleast 9 slots on the S-Curve.
It's what people notice the most. Don't get me wrong, it would be amazing to knock off Arizona and UCLA to win the Conference tournament. But it'd be a hell of a let down to then lose in the first tournament game.
So in this post you are saying you don't really see a difference between a 7 and a 10... but that a win over a #1 from one of these teams taking them to a 6 is crazy to you.
I don't know that it would happen, but last year UCLA got a 6-seed with a 25-9 record, #32 RPI and a 2nd place finish in the P12T. We'd be in that ballpark.
But webarely have a winning record since we lost the mayor!!!
cubuffs85
Active Member
Yep. I guess from our perspective I can see a P12 banner being more meaningful over UMass in the first round before losing to Villanova in round two (just throwing out some schools here). But when you start comparing teams and their recent success, you look first at how far they advanced in the Tourney.
And yeah you're absolutely right about the letdown, if this a middling team and loses it's first game it's one thing. But to lose in the first round with such lofty expectations is another. If we win the Pac-12 Tournament, I think we'll be talking higher goals than we currently are.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Yeah I think they are very interchangeable. Yep, I think if you think they are #9 now, the idea of them going to #6 is crazy (assuming they beat UofA but lose in the Final). If you think they're #8 and they get to #6 not so crazy.
Did UCLA start out as a #9 at this point last year? I just wouldn't get too disappointed if I were you because UCLA got this seed, you would expect CU to.
The committee is meeting as we speak and they've already started the process that's why I think there's limited movement. There's never going to be universal agreement(or close to that) with the seeds or even who makes the bracket. Many think that you can't really even improve your seeding right now to begin with. Who knows? We can do these mock brackets all day, study the Joe Lundardi's/Jerry Palms of the world, like all those polls taken before elections they aren't binding and ultimately only the final one matters.
Trust me. I won't get disappointed.
I thought I explained why I thought the Buffs are a 9 right now is a perception problem.
Pretty much all of the projected 8s and 9s lost today. That helps perception.
Beat UofA and the Buffs should skyrocket.
I don't know that it will happen. We'll probably never know since the Buffs are huge underdogs tomorrow and likely to lose. But I will say that over the past couple years as we've been watching the seeding it has cone almost to chalk with RPI outside the top 5 seeds.
I thought I explained why I thought the Buffs are a 9 right now is a perception problem.
Pretty much all of the projected 8s and 9s lost today. That helps perception.
Beat UofA and the Buffs should skyrocket.
I don't know that it will happen. We'll probably never know since the Buffs are huge underdogs tomorrow and likely to lose. But I will say that over the past couple years as we've been watching the seeding it has cone almost to chalk with RPI outside the top 5 seeds.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Fair point with all the 8/9s losing, believe me if I'm wrong here, I'll be the first person to admit regardless of circumstance and you can call me out on it.
Let me ask you thinks -- You think Lunardi/Palm are going to move up CU 2-3 seeds after they beat UofA from what they currently have them as? Because if you're of the belief perception matters and that these guys have a lot of influence, they surely would have to move them that much up as a result for the committee to take notice.
I would like to see brackets from the start of Championship Week to the actual results? I wonder how many teams have gone up/or down more than 3 slots. Of course we'll never really know since the committee doesn't make that public. And the mock brackets only matter so much.
Btw, I do agree with you for the most part that loss won't really negative impact us.
UACat
Member
Whoa calm down there man. I wasn't making historical comparisons. I was simply making an observation about how fans perceive other fans today. The 1940s have no bearing on a present-day fanbase's reputation. It's a fact that it's far easier to tolerate a team and its fans if they aren't winning nearly every game.
Do you guys hate USC fans? Of course not. You beat them 3 times and their fans are nowhere to be seen, probably just waiting for football season. Arizona on the other hand beat you twice, the second one being a particularly embarrassing 27-point loss in your own house. I don't expect any Colorado fans to be happy about that or in the mood to hold hands with UA fans.
Bottom line, if UA wasn't good, you guys wouldn't despite them. If you were in a conference with KU or Duke and not UA, you'd despise those teams and fans more. If you don't believe that then I don't know what to tell you other than you're letting your emotions get the best of you.
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CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
As has been said on here numerous times, Arizona fans are nothing like fans of actual blue blood programs. Arizona fans are insecure.
And I'm not sure if you're a three year old who wasn't alive for the period CU and KU were conference foes spanning across 8 decades until three years ago, but we don't need you teliing us what it's like to be in a conference with Kansas. We've been there and done that, and KU fans, while annoying, do not display the insecurity of Arizona fans, nor the love of incessantly making jokes about anuses.
Tall order tomorrow. AZ played one of the most complete games I have seen in a long time against Utah. There are not many teams, if any, that would have beaten them today. The Buffs have played two nail biters and at times have gone thru long streaks of not scoring in both games. Do that tomrrow and we will get run out of the gym. With that said, cannot wait to see them hit the court against AZ and see what happens.
An interesting discussion with several Cat fans today and different than what I have seen from many AZ fans. They say my CU gear and said ****ing Buffs. I was ready for an arguement but the conversation took a very strange turn. I told them how well they played today and that they would have beaten anyone in the country. They then proceeded to talk about how CU was the one team they did not want to face. They were so high on Tad and both dudes actually new more about our players than some of our fans. They expect to win and they may, but they did say they knew we had a ton of talent and it was a shame for the conference that we lost Spencer. Both thought it would be great for the Pac to have two top 10 teams.
Well, like I said, strange conversation but they were good guys. Go Buffs and who knows what happens tomorrow. That is why they play the game!
An interesting discussion with several Cat fans today and different than what I have seen from many AZ fans. They say my CU gear and said ****ing Buffs. I was ready for an arguement but the conversation took a very strange turn. I told them how well they played today and that they would have beaten anyone in the country. They then proceeded to talk about how CU was the one team they did not want to face. They were so high on Tad and both dudes actually new more about our players than some of our fans. They expect to win and they may, but they did say they knew we had a ton of talent and it was a shame for the conference that we lost Spencer. Both thought it would be great for the Pac to have two top 10 teams.
Well, like I said, strange conversation but they were good guys. Go Buffs and who knows what happens tomorrow. That is why they play the game!
UACat
Member
It's a little late to be taking the high road after you guys in this thread alone have called me a three year old, telling me to shove my opinion up my ass, and used the colorful name "Chards" repeatedly. It's also naive to judge thousands-large fanbases based on the handful of comments you see on message boards.
But you're right. You guys just happen to be dealing with the above and beyond worst fans in the NCAA, and no other fanbases would disagree with you one bit. :thumbsup:
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
:lol: at claiming "chards" is offensive.
And no one called you a three year old, but it would probably be better if you were as then you'd have a reason for not knowing CU and KU were longtime conference foes until very recently. Sitting around trying to tell CU fans what KU fans are like... We were in a conference with KU for 64 years until 2011. Maybe you're really young, or maybe you took a break and got back on the UA bandwagon this year. I don't know.
Arizona isn't the "worst" fan base. Just the most insecure.. You're an odd group that didn't show your true colors our first couple years in the Pac. My suspicion is that's because only the diehard Arizona fans were around, while the bandwagoners have crawled out of the woodwork this year since Zona is potential Final Four material.
I just hope we can keep it within 25. UofA playing a home game tomorrow, this place is packed with them.
UACat
Member
That's probably true actually. But again, any team with success is going to have annoying bandwagonners jump on. My point has never been that UA fans are saints, it's that it comes with the territory of a successful program.
I never said I didn't know CU and KU were in the same conference in the past. The point was you hated them more then because you were in their conference, and now you hate UA more because you're in our conference. This concept isn't that hard to grasp.
Also, calling someone insecure is a very vague and cheap criticism, because you can't easily disprove or defend yourself from it. I could call you guys insecure after all the vitriol you've spewed in this thread. Why bash another team if you're secure? And no matter what you say back, I'll just say it's more proof of how insecure you are. It's childish.
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I think people call Arizona fans insecure because many of them come in after an Arizona win to boast about it, or to point out that Xavier Johnson's comments were the reason why it happened. You don't see UCLA or Kansas fans act that way. Why? Because likely they aren't that concerned or threatened by what Colorado is doing. They know who they are, and what they expect their teams to accomplish. Even if Colorado were to somehow turn their program into a Final Four program, they're not threatened by it because they have the KU and UCLA brand that isn't going away any time soon. Some Arizona fans seem to be on a mission to prove they are a blue blood, which is probably a sure sign they are not one.
Personally, I don't really even hate the Arizona fan base at all, just don't get why exactly many are threatened by CU to the point where any conversation is significantly more trash talking then anything basketball related
an:UACat
Member
I'm not threatened by a good Colorado program. If anything I'm more threatened by there being no other good Pac-12 programs. A weak conference isn't good for anyone. I wish Colorado and the rest of the Pac-12 had been stronger this year. If Arizona beats down Colorado again today, that doesn't do as much for them as it would if Colorado were actually ranked. We want you guys to do well.
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For the record, Cat, I hate USC. I hate USC a lot. I found the *********** that visited this site after that last blowout a little difficult to stomach, but that's an internet thing. I really hate USC fans in real life. I hope that helps frame this dialogue.
I don't find the Arizona fanbase obnoxious, but maybe it is because I am surrounded by the ASU fanbase, which is exponentially dumber and more ignorant. The obnoxious UA fans, like those of many schools, are largely those that didn't go to UA or college at all. Think Alabama football fanbase.
I give us about a 10% chance of winning tonight. I am just hoping for a close game.
I give us about a 10% chance of winning tonight. I am just hoping for a close game.
