6 a.m. practices....

[DBT]

What a load of bull****. Sorry, but you want it both ways. You want to give credit to Hawkins for the high graduation rate and none of the blame for the low APR. I do not really care about practice times. I DO care about losing five scholarships, that is not just looking for negative ****.

Listen, its just laughable that the guy changes his practice time and it leads to a ****load of bashing in the thread. I mean, get over it. And the APR thing does bug me and losing the scholarships bugs me, but that happened last frigging year! I personally think this "APR" thing by the NCAA is a crock of ****. It penalizes schools with tougher standards. The easy way around it is to just make sure your players are graduating, wink wink. If CU wants to play with the big boys, they'll have to change their standards. I more blame the two faced NCAA than I do Hawkins.

 

[leftybuff]

Ugh... why wasn't this coaching staff gone last year?

Oh, I can think of a million reasons....

 

[absinthe]

oh, i can think of 3 million reasons....

fify

 

[buffs04]

Good gawd, people. Just try to chill out until football season! Stop looking for negative **** in every nook and cranny. I think the APR thing and GPA thing are not related that much. I think the bad APR is for losing guys like Katoa who were not on track when they left. But I may be mistaken. The fact is, CU has about a 78% grad rate while Texas is around 48%. Why not bitch about the disparity in what the NCAA allows? Hey, I'm all for CU lowering its standards as much as they can if it'll help us win!

I wonder if the disparity in grad rates might ahve something to do with the fact that Mack Brown actually puts players in the NFL. CU doesn't lose juniors or RS sophs ever. Texas loses them consistently.

 

[Scotch]

Maybe it's a good thing. I know when I work out first thing in the morning I'm alert the rest of the day. I don't really care, just stop putting an embarrassing product on the field.

:nod: Yup

 

[DBT]

I wonder if the disparity in grad rates might ahve something to do with the fact that Mack Brown actually puts players in the NFL. CU doesn't lose juniors or RS sophs ever. Texas loses them consistently.

Honestly, I don't know. I get really confused on all this "APR" stuff. I'm kind of torn on all of this. I want us to win and I think the athletic programs should be allowed to take "at risk" kids. CU has pretty good academics, but, come on, you can't tell me that just about any kid, with a bit of effort and support, can't graduate from CU. I know we're all frustrated.

 

[CUBuff98]

I think this will be counterproductive to effective practice AND player GPAs.

 

[Liver]

i guess the main reason i question this move is that, every off-season, hawkins talks to his "peers" and decides that something he saw or heard is the greatest thing since sliced bread. so, he throws out whatever they were doing before and he institutes the new thing, whatever it is.

we've done this with offenses about 3 times.

it bugs me because, to date, none of these changes have worked at all. while i agree with the old adage: insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, i don't think these guys think things through. i don't think they go the extra mile to make something new work. i think they just throw **** up against the wall and hope against hope that maybe this time it sticks.

when Mac switched to the wishbone, none of his assistants had any experience with it. so, he sent them off to watch wishbone teams. and then he drilled the **** out of them until he was satisfied that they actually understood all the nuances. and, only THEN did he install that offense. and, thereafter, he continually tweaked it, with help from an excellent staff. it evolved into the flexbone and i-bone and then finally into a passing offense with one-back and split guards for kordell.

i dunno. i get that some posters think that hawkins gets a rash of **** for every single decision he makes and that they think it is unfair. but, look, you have to win. **** has to work! this is historically speaking the worst staff in the history of CU football. the worst EVER. they don't deserve a lot of slack. so, when they come up with their latest nutjob scheme... hey, everyone let's practice at 6am, then folks will jump on it. eventually, these guys are going to get fired... unless somehow miraculously they finally show they can coach.

 

[Tadploe]

Yes, I think the Hawk can recruit more 5* kids by telling them "we start lifting and running at 6 am" because thats how the veeeegans in Boulder do it.

 

[DBT]

One of my kids had a class with, shall we say, a well known star on the team. He, the player, would come to class and sleep through the whole thing. So, since this was back when practices were at a later time, I don't know that the time of practice is all that great a factor. Hell, maybe this'll toughen the team up. I doubt if there is a hockey player on earth, for instance, that didn't have to get up at 5AM to practice.

 

[JimmyBuff]

One of my kids had a class with, shall we say, a well known star on the team. .

We have a star on the team? Where?

 

[Mick Ronson]

my original point has nothing to do with APR. just plain scheduling. if you wipe all the classes from 8-11 AM out of football player eligibility, there are going to be people who have major required classes in those times that are offered once a year, fall semester. after 2 or 3 PM, much fewer classes scheduled campus-wide, much fewer classes to miss at that time. there's a reason most teams practice at the time they do vis a vis academic scheduling. it's like punting the football and playing field position....it's conventional wisdom for a reason. but, Danny seems to think every year we have to re-invent the wheel. it's simple percentages of when classes are offered. there are going to be JR's and SR's who this potentially puts in a bad way as far as staying on course to graduate because they can't take the classes they need.

now, it's possible the people in charge of this have it wired and this won't be a problem....but, as someone who has spent the last decade on campus I think some kids are gonna get hosed.

 

[AlferdJasper]

basically, taking 8-10, maybe even 11 AM off the board is going to create class scheduling problems for student-athletes, I would think. that's a lot of class offerings/requirements to take off the board for a full semester vs. after 3 PM. You are going to have JRs and SRs who need one required class or a set of major required classes that are only offered, say, at 10 MWF. Those guys are screwed.

Correct. One can look at the CU course offerings to see that more classes are offered in the morning vs. afternoon.

CU's players have looked lathargic at times, so I'm not sure how this helps.

I predict the players will stay up just as late as they always have, and now get up earlier. We shall cut out a few additional hours of sleep for each of them.

6:00 A.M. practice ? Good luck staying awake in those afternoon classes.

Exactly. Want to see the APR plummet? Have the guys get up early and put in a full practice before trying to pay attention in the afternoon classes.

It's three months to the start of the season, and we in here talking 'bout practice? Not a game, not a game, not a game, but practice? Man, how the hell am I going to make my teammates better by practice?

:lol: Rep. :thumbsup:

Maybe it's a good thing. I know when I work out first thing in the morning I'm alert the rest of the day. I don't really care, just stop putting an embarrassing product on the field.

But are you mature enough to get a good night's sleep because you know you will work out first thing? We are talking about college students here who will play video games with their friends until 3 in the morning. I have teenagers, and their basic understanding of the ratio of sleep hours to quality of their waking hours is non-existent. They say things like "I'm young, I don't need that much sleep."

now, it's possible the people in charge of this have it wired and this won't be a problem....but, as someone who has spent the last decade on campus I think some kids are gonna get hosed.

Quite often this is the case. Kids who are taking serious majors - in particular - cannot screw around with the scheduling whims. In certain colleges (Engineering, for example) there are precise options about which classes one must take to stay on track. If one can't take them when they are offered, the student is toast.

For students who are undecided majors in Arts and Sciences, there may be enough choices to come up with a schedule around the football practices. But for upperclassmen in certain schools, it will not be easy.

Whether the entire culture of college students can be switched to a "go to bed by 10 p.m. and get up refreshed for early practice" norm is the more doubtful premise for me. We are going to see some puppies come to class dragging their tails behind them.

 

[sackman]

When I was at CU, I avoided 8:00 AM classes like the plague. I think I had two in four years. 18-22 year old kids are not wired for early activity. This is a moronic move by a first class moron.

 

[leftybuff]

i guess the main reason i question this move is that, every off-season, hawkins talks to his "peers" and decides that something he saw or heard is the greatest thing since sliced bread. so, he throws out whatever they were doing before and he institutes the new thing, whatever it is.

we've done this with offenses about 3 times.

.

I remain convinced Hawk feels the need to be perceived as the "innovator". The guy with the crazy sounding idea that turns CFB on it's head. He really is in pursuit of the better mousetrap. Whether it is player groupings, changing the O on a yearly basis (mostly in search of an O a certain player can run) practices at 6 a.m. or any of the other Zen master crap, Hawk is out to be the Steve Jobs of CFB....it isn't working.

 

[Mick Ronson]

i'll just wonder out loud, the whole team already registered for classes in April. before the announcement with AM classes, one assumes. that will be a fun problem to "fix". some of these classes in the PM will be full, what will they do....just bump non-football students? unless they planned for this a month ago and announced this week......this seems like a poorly organized move that will have a negative ripple effect down the line (yup, that's a hanging curveball....).

 

[DBT]

i'll just wonder out loud, the whole team already registered for classes in April. before the announcement with AM classes, one assumes. that will be a fun problem to "fix". some of these classes in the PM will be full, what will they do....just bump non-football students? unless they planned for this a month ago and announced this week......this seems like a poorly organized move that will have a negative ripple effect down the line (yup, that's a hanging curveball....).

Thats a good point. Early registration was a few weeks ago. Maybe the staff told the team ahead of time, though. But do football players really schedule much of a load in the fall? I know if it were me, I'd be scheduling the minimum hours and easiest classes I could find.

 

[Mick Ronson]

I know if it were me, I'd be scheduling the minimum hours and easiest classes I could find.

of course, but that won't change the fact that if you are a JR or SR your choices of classes starts to bottleneck considerably when you start thinking about graduating. If that last class you need for your major or even CORE requirements is offered once a year, as a seminar or whatever, MWF at 10 AM....by this new arrangement....you are in school another year.

I just don't see how this doesn't start putting students behind the curve as far as staying on track academically. like i say, it's possible this has all been thought through in advance and it's not a problem....but I don't see how you there aren't negative effects (which could result in APR hits) when you take about half (my guess) of CU's course offerings off the table. there's a reason most grad seminars are in the afternoon....because faculty and grad students (as TA's or whatever) are at work performing the labor necessary for the undergrad curriculum from about 8-2.

 

[DBT]

of course, but that won't change the fact that if you are a JR or SR your choices of classes starts to bottleneck considerably when you start thinking about graduating. If that last class you need for your major or even CORE requirements is offered once a year, as a seminar or whatever, MWF at 10 AM....by this new arrangement....you are in school another year.

I just don't see how this doesn't start putting students behind the curve as far as staying on track academically. like i say, it's possible this has all been thought through in advance and it's not a problem....but I don't see how you there aren't negative effects (which could result in APR hits) when you take about half (my guess) of CU's course offerings off the table. there's a reason most grad seminars are in the afternoon....because faculty and grad students (as TA's or whatever) are at work performing the labor necessary for the undergrad curriculum from about 8-2.

Well, according to Scotty McNight, in the Denver Post, the players are excited about it. So, I guess I'll defer to them.

 

[Mick Ronson]

Well, according to Scotty McNight, in the Denver Post, the players are excited about it. So, I guess I'll defer to them.

well, what else is he going to say? we've been having the best practices and best Springs for 4 years in a row. I'm not trying to win your approval, what i've outlined has to do with how it will possibly impact the academic situation of the football team not what the players opinions (especially the best friend of the coach's son) are. they are qualitatively different things. dig?

 

[DBT]

well, what else is he going to say? we've been having the best practices and best Springs for 4 years in a row. I'm not trying to win your approval, what i've outlined has to do with how it will possibly impact the academic situation of the football team not what the players opinions (especially the best friend of the coach's son) are. they are qualitatively different things. dig?

Nope. I get what you are saying. I just don't know if there is any "wrong or right" here. They are talking about being on the field by 7:30. Practices would go 2 hours. They'd be showered and ready to go by 10 or so. Would that be a killer, academically speaking? I can see benefits to the early practices. I can see negatives as well. But the whole thing that bothered me about this thread is that it automatically turned into another bashing session. Its one thing to argue the merits of "6am practices" but another to use it as another reason to rip Hawkins.

 

[leftybuff]

well, what else is he going to say? we've been having the best practices and best Springs for 4 years in a row. I'm not trying to win your approval, what i've outlined has to do with how it will possibly impact the academic situation of the football team not what the players opinions (especially the best friend of the coach's son) are. they are qualitatively different things. dig?

Exactly. Anybody that says anything else will be deemed to have left their lunchpail at home. Of course, the correct term now is a breakfast basket, not a lunchpail, but that little thing has not yet been announced by the Naropa wanna be...

 

[Mick Ronson]

Its one thing to argue the merits of "6am practices" but another to use it as another reason to rip Hawkins.

i think i've done a lot more of the former than the latter in this thread.

 

[BUFFS14]

Its one thing to argue the merits of "6am practices" but another to use it as another reason to rip Hawkins.

Agreed, I get a little tired of that too. However, Hawkins has not given us any reason NOT to rip him. Therefore, it is too easy to fall back into that mode. I wish he would give us something, anything that shows he has some clue as to what he is doing is right.

 

[DBT]

i think i've done a lot more of the former than the latter in this thread.

Yes you have and you've done it well! :smile2:

 

[tante]

This may help us during the early games when we seem to be asleep during the whole first half.

 

[DBT]

This may help us during the early games when we seem to be asleep during the whole first half.

Enough about the coaching staff. How about the players?

 

[buffs04]

I think there is some truth to DBT's implication that some of us just hate Hawkins so much we look for any excuse to bitch. I am guilty of it from time to time.

That being said, this move almost appears to be a punishment, or a feeling on the part of Hawkins that making practice as miserable as possible will somehow make the team better. It fits his "blue collar" or "lunchpail" motif fairly well. It seems comparable to the sort of stuff they make the ROTC kids do at the asscrack of dawn just for the sake of making every moment as unpleasant as possible.

I guarantee you that the players hate this idea. Who the hell wants to wake up at 5am and exert themselves physically to the fullest limitations of their body?

If I was a recruit on the fence I would certainly take this kind of excrutiating unpleasentness into account when deciding whether or not to pull the trigger and commit to a university.

 

[leftybuff]

I think there is some truth to DBT's implication that some of us just hate Hawkins so much we look for any excuse to bitch. I am guilty of it from time to time.

That being said, this move almost appears to be a punishment, or a feeling on the part of Hawkins that making practice as miserable as possible will somehow make the team better. It fits his "blue collar" or "lunchpail" motif fairly well. It seems comparable to the sort of stuff they make the ROTC kids do at the asscrack of dawn just for the sake of making every moment as unpleasant as possible.

I guarantee you that the players hate this idea. Who the hell wants to wake up at 5am and exert themselves physically to the fullest limitations of their body?

If I was a recruit on the fence I would certainly take this kind of excrutiating unpleasentness into account when deciding whether or not to pull the trigger and commit to a university.

+1, as to the bold.

I am tired of the schtick, I'll admit it. I razz the HC and his goofy statements largely because he has been a flop, and his statements make it sound like it is everybody else's fault. This move has the feel of doing something different just for the sake of doing something different. I don't think DH really has any idea of what to do, so doing something is better than not... so what the heck let's practice in the morning instead of the afternoon. Flying by the seat of his pants is about as generous of a description as I can give. I don't dislike him, it is just pretty obvious he's in over his head and CU is suffering for it. I really don't like that outcome.

I held out as long as I could. I was on board until ISU this year, even though as far back as KU in'08 I had this sinking feeling the HC really didn't know how to compete at this level.

 

[BlackNGold]

Good gawd, people. Just try to chill out until football season! Stop looking for negative **** in every nook and cranny. I think the APR thing and GPA thing are not related that much. I think the bad APR is for losing guys like Katoa who were not on track when they left. But I may be mistaken. The fact is, CU has about a 78% grad rate while Texas is around 48%. Why not bitch about the disparity in what the NCAA allows? Hey, I'm all for CU lowering its standards as much as they can if it'll help us win!

Where in the heck are you getting your numbers - because they are no where factual. For the Freshman class enrolling in the 02-03 academic year CU has a 38% graduation rate. The Graduation Success rate for players enrolling between 1999 and 2002 - the Graduation Success Rate is 64 % (helped by the 2001 class that hit a 100%). The graduation rate under Hawkins has not been good. And what is the disparity of what the NCAA allows that you are talking about???? You are either graduating your players or you are not..