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A fresh look at Aric Goodman

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    There is an interesting thread in progress on the Rivals board discussing Aric Goodman's 2009 season.

    In his defense, it has been brought up that he had a partially torn groin muscle last year and needed injections in order to kick (report not verified). Further, that if you consider this and that his average miss was like 47 yards out, it wasn't such a bad year (stats say 46.1 average miss, so pretty close to true on the numbers). Also, that he genuinely bleeds black & gold, works his butt off, and is absolutely broken up about every missed field goal. Finally, that he's having hip surgery but is committed to making it back for fall camp to help this team.

    Personally, I always assume that our guys try hard and I believe that this board especially, but other boards too, do a great job of critiquing results without every engaging in personal attacks on the players themselves. I can't remember a single instance of someone saying he thinks Goodman's struggles were due to lack of effort. So that defense rings hollow for me.

    Anyway (and I posted this on Rivals), I went back and looked at Aric's kicks from last year. He was very good on kicks of less than 40 yards.

    20-29 yards: 2/2 (makes from 20 & 22)
    30-39 yards: 5/6 (makes from 30, 32, 37, 37 & 39 / miss from 37)
    40-49 yards: 2/7 (makes from 45 & 48 / misses from 40, 42, 45, 47 & 49)
    50-59 yards: 1/3 (make from 54 / misses from 52 & 57)

    Honestly, the point about a lot of the misses being long field goal attempts is valid.

    You can live with the 1/3 from 50+. Those kicks are a coin flip at best.

    The 7/8 (87.5%) from 0-39 is great. CU opponents were only 11/14 (78.6%) from that range.

    It's that 2/7 (28.6%) in the 40-49 range that killed us. CU opponents were off the charts from that distance at 5/6 (83.3%).

    Maybe I've been a little unfair to Goodman. At the same time, he only delivered at a 30% clip if the ball wasn't being snapped from inside the 23 yard line. We need to be able to count on our placekicker being better than that.

    *************

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    How about his 2008 campaign?
     
  3. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    He hit a bunch of uprights....pretty much downhill after WVU....
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    20-29 yards: 2/3
    30-39 yards: 3/5
    40-49 yards: 0/5
    50-59 yards: 0/1

    Same pattern, worse result. I believe he missed like his last 7 attempts, too, before Davis took over.

    And it has been 2 consecutive years with Goodman having the worst FG% among FBS kickers. A ton of close misses, fwiw. Probably has hit 7 or 8 uprights the past 2 seasons.

    Should he even have an opportunity to win the job in 2010?
     
  5. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    I have tried to forget about that.

    I know the kid is probably a awesome person. Works hard, and bleeds black and gold. I just don't want to see him kick FG's in a CU uniform again. It may sound a little harsh, but can you ever remember a CU kicker performing as bad as Goodman did in 08? He did get better last season, but you couldn't get any worse imo.

    I hope he makes me eat my words. I want to see him succeed as much as anyone does. I just don't think that will happen. Especially with Riddle at the helm.
     
  6. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Of course....kicking is a mental thing. He may be the next Garo Yepremian, for all we know. But for God's sake, do not let him throw it.
     
  7. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Frankly, I think he should be the front runner. But I also know that he has to prove himself to his teamates.Think is, we all deserve a chance to improve. I think we have way too much of a tendency to base opinons on the past and an inability to realise that people get better and learn from adversity. From the reports I've seen, there is no doubt in my mind that Goodman has, by far and away, the best leg.
     
  8. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    If a guy working for you consistently under performs like AG has, will you still feel the same? I know it's just college football, but he's played like crap for two years. What makes you think he's going to magically snap out of it?
     
  9. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Hate to sound like a broken record but this again points to a problem in of all places . . .

    coaching, coaches decision making to be specific

    One of the key responsibilities of a head coach is to know his teams characteristics and make the decisions that give them the best chance to succeed. Hawk has access to these same statistics. Would it not be logical to assume that if you have a kicker who is money from inside of 40 and has a poor percentage outside of 40 that you would avoid running him out there from more than 40. Instead he keeps going out, keeps missing, and instead of a solid short to medium kicker we have a head case who has the leg but can't hit a thing past 40.

    Use him in a way that is consistent with his abilities and what he is successful at and in time with confidence and feeling a groove give him opportunities to build into longer kicks. Again a player development issue.
     
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  10. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Did you look at nik's stats? Goodman's misses were all from 40 plus and he hit, like, 7 uprights. He has a booming leg. He kicks the ball with more explosion than anyone. Sometimes, overcoming failure makes one stronger. Now, if you take that and combine it with how bad the other guys have been, I think its a no brainer. The kid has the best leg on the team. I'd expect that, mentally, he is much stronger after all he's gone through. I'll say this: He received no sympathy whatsoever from his teamates last year.
     
  11. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Okay. I'm all for him becoming a better person through all the adversity. Great.

    Now where are the results? I saw Nik's stats, but I'll still cringe every time they send him on the field. He may have a strong leg. No one will dispute that. It's his accuracy that is in question here.
     
  12. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    p
    Is there anyone that contributes to CU losing lots of football games that you don't vigorously support? Just curious. Because Aric Goodman is a terrible kicker and he had two full years to be terrible without losing his job, yet he continued to be terrible. He needs more time to overcome adversity, though, right? Maybe we should start recruiting linebackers out of the engineering center and letting them start for 4 years even when they get burnt 942 times per game their first three years because hey, everyone can overcome challenges and until they prove that they aren't good enough for an entire four years it would be premature to say they aren't good enough. What really needs to be fostered is a constructive environment where everyone can feel great about themselves despite performances. Maybe post-practice hand-holding sessions need to be put in to place so all the players can feel the togetherness that is needed to win.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  13. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I'll stay calm here. Because I'd like to FUCING EXPLODE!! Yeah, Goodman hasn't come through. But, from what I heare, Grossnickle made one of F UCKING FIVE! So, what would you do"? Hmm?
     
  14. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Why aren't you going to give Grossnickle a chance to overcome his adversity? I'm sure it would be a real morale booster for the team. :)
     
  15. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    If we were an offensive juggernaut that could regularly score TDs or sustain drives, Goodman's misses probably do not matter as much. But that is not where we are. No excuses for the FG percentage over the last two seasons Goodman simply has not been good enough and has put our defense in bad spots with field position. We have lost so many yards in field position due to poor punting, poor kick coverage, poor punt returns, and missed FGs. Again, for a team with enough offensive firepower to overcome mistakes it probably matters much less, but it has been absolutely crippling to us.
     
  16. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    I kinda feel bad for the guy because how many freaking uprights can a guy hit? He's literally been inches from making a lot more FGs. However, he also has made quite a few close ones, the guy simply is not accurate at all. I was hoping Grossnickle would come in and just make us forget about Goodman, but 1 for 5? Looking like another long season of FG kicking.
     
  17. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    I'm literally inches from having big junk. Not sure why I needed to share that.

    Anyhoo, I think that Aric's due for a little success. If even fifty percent of those kicks that bumped the uprights went through....
     
  18. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    There are 3 games last year that I can think of that he missed field goals that either cost them the game or put them out of the game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  19. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    DBT ... slow down. You know if you start messing with kicking statistics I'm going to have to come over and smack you on the head.

    First scrimmage stats (March 18, after 6 low-key spring practices)
    Grossnickle made 4 of 4. (No that is not a typo. He was 100%: 32,34,38,32.)
    Goodman was 1 for 3 (his good fg was 26 yards.)
    Kirkwood was 1 for 3. (good fg was 30 yards.)

    Grossnickle's punts averaged 37.2 yards. However, he had several with 4.5 hangtime and up, at least two went over 5 seconds. That's not common at all for a college punter. The coaches' comments after the scrimmage indicated that they told him to work on hangtime and not worry about distance.

    Goodman's hip injury starts acting up and following spring break, he does not practice. So you've already got Grossnickle taking all the punts (although they tried Seth Lobato and a few other guys for a couple), close to half the kickoffs and field goals. For the first week back after break, they over-kicked him, plain and simple. He had a good practice that Thursday, with good field goal stats. Then they had him kick and punt repeatedly to the guys who wanted to be return men.

    Second scrimmage stats (April 2, the Friday after spring break, and after a week off kicking due to snow, and an intense practice the day before.)
    Grossnickle 1 for 4 fgs
    Kirkwood 0 for 2.

    Grossnickle punts averaged 31.5 yards.
    Did not look good - chalk some of it up to bad day, tired leg, and some bad snaps. (One so bad, Cody had to abandon the field goal and try to throw instead.) Or you can make the leap that Grossnickle is terrible due to that one performance.
    If we had only the second scrimmage stats to look at, I'd be more concerned, but the first scrimmage wasn't bad. If he had continued to GET BETTER each week, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    But, inexplicably, his performance, and Kirkwood's both dropped for second scrimmage. Why?

    So when you say, "what would you do?"
    I answer: I would try not to make assumptions on how these guys would do based on the freshman's two performances at scrimmages compared to the senior's 2 years as starter.
    The other thing I would do is get a kicking consultant to work out some drills and guidelines for the coaching staff to use --- and set some maximum numbers of kicks and punts allowed per kicker per day. I've read about several pro kickers who start experiencing deadleg and loss of accuracy and distance, and the solution almost always involves reducing kicks in practice. This is hard for kickers who want to kick for as long as the rest of the team practices, but 10-12 good kicks when the leg is tired is IT. In each case, the kicker says it "kills him" to kick so little, but then after a week or so of lighter practice, they get their strength and accuracy back.
    A kicker can do 20-25 kicks when the leg is fresh, and when there is a little rest between kicks (I mean a minute or two.) Fast repetitive kicks, one after the other, are not good for the leg. But upwards of 50 kicks and punts is more than a leg can take, so until we see Grossnickle kicking fresh again, who knows what he might be able to do? He might still suck, but we won't know that until he's given optimum practice reps, not as many as can be squeezed into a short period of time.

    The good news? light practice yesterday and a day of rest today before the spring game. Both Kirkwood and Grossnickle should look better on Saturday.

    One last comment - and then we can go back to talking about Mr. Goodman.
    Last season, when they told Grossnickle he would redshirt due to the broken wrist, they decided to groom him to be DiLallo's replacement at punter. We had Goodman, Aweida and Kirkwood as kickers. (And Justin Mihalcin for a while there.) But the only other punter on the roster - so to speak - was Darrell Scott. So all Grossnickle did from about late Sept. to the end of the season was work on punts. He was told not to practice field goals, as they were switching him to primarily punter.

    Then Aweida leaves the team, and Goodman is injured. Kirkwood looks okay, but he's not a proven commodity. After NOT kicking for about 5-6 MONTHS, Grossnickle gets told in the spring to practice field goals and kickoffs again. I would imagine he's a little rusty. It's not going to happen overnight, he may need a couple months to get back in the kicking groove. But he is likely to improve, if you look at his past performance.

    If Goodman comes back from surgery and rehab better than ever, I will be glad for him and CU. I will hope for him to have a stellar senior season, the same way I wished that for DiLallo.

    But DBT, soften up on the new guy a little and don't mess with kicking stats. EVER.
     
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  20. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Uprights statistics for both good and missed kicks. Goodman holds the NCAA record both for season and career, at 9 hits. (Only 6 of those were misses, though.) I never found any evidence that he hit the uprights at Wyoming; if that happened, would be added in here.

    Aric Goodman upright hits 2008-2009 at CU:
    3 hit upright but went in
    6 hit upright and were no good.

    Total for career, thus far: 9 hitting uprights.
    (1 of the 9 was an XP, rest were field goals or field goal attempts.)

    detail:
    2009 10 field goals made for 18 attempts
    2008 5 for 14 field goals
    Total 08-09 (through OSU game) = 15 fgs for 32 attempts

    2009 FG good: 54, 32, 20, 39, 45, 39, 48, 37, 37, 22
    (one GOOD kick hit upright)
    2008 FG good: 23, 32, 25, 31, 37
    (two GOOD kicks hit uprights)

    2009 FG misses:
    47 (wide right), 40 (wide left), 45 (hit left upright), 57 (wide left), 42 (wide right), 50 (hit right upright)
    2008 FG misses:
    35 (wide left), 27 (wide left), 36 (wide right), 43 (left upright), 44 (wide right) , 48 (blocked), 47 (wide right), 46 (hit upright), 50 (left upright), 52 missed (wide left), 37 (wide left.)

    2009 PATs total (through OSU game): 25=26
    (one XP attempt hit upright vs KSU ‘09)
    2008 PAT total: 30-31 (one blocked)
    Total 08-09 (through OSU game) = 55 XPs for 57 attempts

    Again,
    Scrimmage 1: Grossnickle was 4 for 4.
    Scrimmage 2: Grossnickle was 1 for 4.

    We have a spring game to show us more of what Kirkwood and Grossnickle can do, a summer to work on mechanics and a fall season when it counts. Do not throw in the towel yet.

    And I keep thinking: what if Goodman's surgery turns out to be the kicker equivalent of pitchers' "tommy john" elbow surgery and he comes back with super-human strength? Everyone will be clamoring to have their kickers get the same nip-and-tuck done.
     
  21. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    9 hit uprights, 3 went through, six missed.
    If half of the remaining misses went through, it would increase his kicks by only 3 more for his career.
     
  22. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    DAn & Kent couldnt make good kicking decisions with Mason Crosby why doe this surprise us?
     
  23. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, when your returning starter goes down with an injury, double or triple the number of reps you place on the next best guy who is already the lone punter on the team.
    If he can't hold up, call in the walk-ons for reinforcements, and start talking about the incoming freshman as though he is our savior. At least they have a plan.
     
  24. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    So you're still confident in Grossnickle AJ? It was sounding like he was decently accurate, although not as pretty as one might like. But 1 for 5 scares me, hopefully you're right about the dead leg and it just being a bad day.

    On another note, why was Grossnickle told to only practice punting!??!?! RIDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :pissed:
     
  25. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I think 04 misunderstood me. I want the best guy out there. I also want a guy that has the confidence of his teamates. I think everyone agrees, I think, that Goodman has the best leg and kicks the "nicest" ball. But he surely doesn't have the confidence of his teamates. This is not a position I like the team to be in. I'd love to see a guy like Grossnickle step up. At the same time, I'm not going to just throw Goodman under the bus and say "never."
     
  26. CUwhit21

    CUwhit21 Club Member Club Member

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    Also, in 2006, Aric was:

    2-2 from 20-29
    5-7 from 30-39
    2-6 from 40-49
    1-1 from 50+

    Therefore, in his 3 years, he is:
    6-7 from 20-29 - 86%
    13-18 from 30-39 - 72%
    4-18 from 40-49 - 22%
    2-5 from 50+ - 40%
     
  27. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    yeah so stop kicking long field goals, how ****ing hard is that to figure out?
     
  28. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    OK, you are the coach. You have, say, 4th and 9 from the 28. You are saying go for it instead of try a 45 yard FG?
     
  29. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    he wasn't 1 for 5, but oh well, read the stats.
    Grossnickle arrived at CU with a fractured wrist/thumb in a cast. That pretty much forced a redshirt they weren't expecting.
    The roster looked like this without him:
    kickers - Goodman, Aweida, Kirkwood, Mihalcin
    punters - DiLallo, with Darrell Scott as backup.
    At the time, made sense to train Grossnickle as a punter since he could do both, and Goodman HAD started the season decent, with three guys behind him.

    When DS left, we had zero punters for 2010, except Zach. (Castor wasn't offered at the point.) So they had him concentrate on punting - which is where many of the top kicking coaches said they thought he would shine. Nobody knew Mihalcin & Aweida would leave, and then Goodman got injured at some point. So Zach's pulling double duty. He both kicked and punted in HS, so won't be a stretch once he gets the rhythm back.

    Am I confident? Well, I'm cautiously optimistic because I've seen him do good things in the past. As you say, would have liked him to come in and blow everyone away right from the start, but he's had an uneven debut. Looking forward to Saturday.
     
  30. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    If Goodman's my kicker, I figure I've got about a 30% chance of him making that field goal. Going for it is maybe a coin flip, but the upside is higher (touchdown). Downside's higher too (interception that gets returned). Probably depends on the situation, but I usually don't run Goodman out there until I'm inside the 25 if I've got under 10 yards to go and time left on the clock to keep a drive going.
     

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