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A&M taking over in Texas

I think that where things went wrong at UT was when they forced a coach in waiting on Mack. It messed up the organization. You don't screw with an operation that is consistently performing that well. Put that (with the massive staff turnover it twice caused) together with missing on your QB recruiting and you see the 3 years of mediocrity they've just had.
 
Buffnik said:
I think that where things went wrong at UT was when they forced a coach in waiting on Mack. It messed up the organization. You don't screw with an operation that is consistently performing that well. Put that (with the massive staff turnover it twice caused) together with missing on your QB recruiting and you see the 3 years of mediocrity they've just had.
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Probably not gonna get any better with Swoopes either, only QB they took this cycle and he's fallen quite a bit in the rankings.
 
MtnBuff said:
It would be hard to find a school that has accomplished less with more than Texas under Mack Brown. Take out the title that Vince Young won them in spite of MB and you have a long string of top recruiting classes that have repeatedly come up short of expectations.

They have the biggest budget and are arguably located in the middle of the richest recruiting grounds in the nation and still have managed to screw it up.
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Not true at all. Look at the stats. On top of a national championship and playing for another, you have the highest number of wins (or very close), multiple BCS bowl wins, excellent record agaisnt top-25 opponents, 9-1 in all bowl games. Say what you want, but the record is there if you care to look it up. There are lots of schools with massive budgets and proximity to recruits. Show me someone who has done better save Saban, Meyer, Stoops & Carrol.

Of course, you can always say that because Texas has money and recrutis they shoudl be undefeated every year, but same goes for USC, Ohio State, half of the SEC, etc.
 
Buffnik said:
I think that where things went wrong at UT was when they forced a coach in waiting on Mack. It messed up the organization. You don't screw with an operation that is consistently performing that well. Put that (with the massive staff turnover it twice caused) together with missing on your QB recruiting and you see the 3 years of mediocrity they've just had.
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I don't disagree.
 
Orr said:
This may sound funny, but results aside, can you acknowledge that he's underperforming.

I'd argue his best coaching year was when they lost to 'Bama in the National Championship. That was a young team. But there have been a bunch of head-scratchers too.
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In the last three years Brown has sucked and he is literally robbing Texas. He gets paid $5+ million and is grossly underperforming in the last three years. He needs to go, pronto. He got paid for his past success. He needs to earn that paycheck every year. I'm fine with a bad year or two, but not three at the rate he's charging.
 
Duff Man said:
Mack Brown winning two Big 12 titles at Texas is laughable.
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That's the most important criticism. Very few have ever been as good at stocking the cupboard or being a program CEO. But big-game coaching leaves a lot to be desired. He couldn't get over on Bowden and he couldn't get over on Stoops and Snyder.
 
Not that anyone cares on a Buff board, but I think MB's CEO-type of coaching model is has run its course. With the turnover in coordinators, you lose consistency if your head coach doesn't actually coach. Players are learning new system every other year. That's the recipe for disaster. It all started after the Bama loss in the NC. Mack wanted to change from a very successful spread offense to a power running SEC style of football. We didn't have the players for it and we didn't have the coaches for it. Totally half ass, not quite here and not quite there. No identity or consistency on either side of the ball.
 
Buffnik said:
That's the most important criticism. Very few have ever been as good at stocking the cupboard or being a program CEO. But big-game coaching leaves a lot to be desired. He couldn't get over on Bowden and he couldn't get over on Stoops and Snyder.
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Then again, he does have a national title.

But again, who is going to be better? They are playing with fire if they kick him to the curb (unless he shows himself unable to rebuild in this next year).
 
Duff Man said:
Mack Brown winning two Big 12 titles at Texas is laughable.
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No question that's the #1 glaring failure of Mack. That said, it has to be viewed alongside his accomplishments, which are many. For example, Stoops wins the B12 every year, but seems to choke in the big games. Nobody is perfect, save Saban, the devil. In aggregate, I'll take what Mack has done over his tenure at UT. However, it's time for new blood. He's not gettign it done anymore. Yesterday is gone.
 
No question that Mack has won a boatload of games. The problem is that outside of when he had Young he has always managed to lose that one of two that cause him to come up short. He has sent bunches of players to the NFL, been ranked highly for weeks on end, been to a bunch of bowl games. He has also managed to lose to OU and/or lose the conference title game way to often coming up just a bit short.

Again you can argue that other schools have big budgets to but Mack is paid $5 million a year, Texas has the biggest budget, Texas has a tremendous fan base and huge loyalty amoung HS players, and they are right in the middle of what many would argue is the richest recruiting area in the country.

With everything Texas has simply put good enough isn't good enough.
 
Darth Snow said:
Then again, he does have a national title.

But again, who is going to be better? They are playing with fire if they kick him to the curb (unless he shows himself unable to rebuild in this next year).
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Vince Young covers for a lot. You get a player like him (or Cam Newton) who makes so many plays outside of the design or after things break down, and it changes everything. I think it's fair to say that Young was the difference between great program management and the appearance of great coaching.

Edit: In other words, Mack Brown = Les Miles.
 
Will Muschamp is the answer to Darth's question about who would be better.
 
Duff Man said:
Will Muschamp is the answer to Darth's question about who would be better.
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But now Will is at Florida.

Again, they better have a proven commodity, or somebody like the next Urban Meyer, or they are taking a big risk.
 
Orr said:
Serious question: Do you believe that because a sliver of what is now Colorado was once part of the Republic of Texas, that the current state of Texas should have unprecedented access to that land?

I'm trying to properly place you on the scale of Texans I have known.

Also, do you have giant tits and curiously absent eyebrows? That question is actually related to the same project.
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That can't possibly be geographically related for you.
 
Buffnik said:
Vince Young covers for a lot. You get a player like him (or Cam Newton) who makes so many plays outside of the design or after things break down, and it changes everything. I think it's fair to say that Young was the difference between great program management and the appearance of great coaching.
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I beg to differ. That UT team was absolutely loaded. Nearly every starting player, offense and defense, ended up in the NFL. VY was the final difference maker, for sure, but nearly every great team has a difference maker; that's what puts them over the top. Plus, VY isn't exactly tearing it up in the NFL. Dude's not even in the NFL.

Brown put that team together. He didn't coach much, as far as I know, but he made it happen. Same for a successful CEO.
 
Walter White said:
No question that's the #1 glaring failure of Mack. That said, it has to be viewed alongside his accomplishments, which are many. For example, Stoops wins the B12 every year, but seems to choke in the big games. Nobody is perfect, save Saban, the devil. In aggregate, I'll take what Mack has done over his tenure at UT. However, it's time for new blood. He's not gettign it done anymore. Yesterday is gone.
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Really no excuse for Texas having only 2 Big 12 titles. They damn near only have one. I still don't know what they were doing at the last of that Nebraska game. My brother is a big Texas fan, he has been bitching about Mack for awhile. I'm like, dude we were one point from going 0fer, spoiled bastard lol.
 
Buffnik said:
I think that where things went wrong at UT was when they forced a coach in waiting on Mack. It messed up the organization. You don't screw with an operation that is consistently performing that well. Put that (with the massive staff turnover it twice caused) together with missing on your QB recruiting and you see the 3 years of mediocrity they've just had.
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I think that's spot on.
 
NMBuff said:
Very few kids grow up to be Aggy. Manziel wanted an offer from UT as did Griffin. I dislike Texas, but they will definitely remain the #1 school in Texas, regardless of Aggy.
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Rickey Seals Jones, a Texan, was recruited by Texas but chose A&M. Everybody was after him - LSU wanted him big time. I think A&M can seriously tap what used to be easy pickings for Texas.
 
77buff said:
Rickey Seals Jones, a Texan, was recruited by Texas but chose A&M. Everybody was after him - LSU wanted him big time. I think A&M can seriously tap what used to be easy pickings for Texas.
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Color me impressed. A&M won a recruiting battle? It happens. Still doesn't make them the #1 place in the state of Texas that most kids want to go to that aren't Aggy. When they land half of the 4* and 5* players that Texas is after then it'll be them "taking over." Mack Brown has won how many years with 10+ wins? Aggy has one good season and they are now taking over the state? Hahaha.

Wow you really are a huge SEC homer. And I don't every like Texas (the entire state) at all.
 
NMBuff said:
Color me impressed. A&M won a recruiting battle? It happens. Still doesn't make them the #1 place in the state of Texas that most kids want to go to that aren't Aggy. When they land half of the 4* and 5* players that Texas is after then it'll be them "taking over." Mack Brown has won how many years with 10+ wins? Aggy has one good season and they are now taking over the state? Hahaha.

Wow you really are a huge SEC homer. And I don't every like Texas (the entire state) at all.
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aTm pretty much took over Texas this last cycle.
 
NMBuff said:
Color me impressed. A&M won a recruiting battle? It happens. Still doesn't make them the #1 place in the state of Texas that most kids want to go to that aren't Aggy. When they land half of the 4* and 5* players that Texas is after then it'll be them "taking over." Mack Brown has won how many years with 10+ wins? Aggy has one good season and they are now taking over the state? Hahaha.

Wow you really are a huge SEC homer. And I don't every like Texas (the entire state) at all.
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I think we are really entering uncharted territory, and I think Texas' continued dominance over aTm in the state of Texas is far from guaranteed. They always dominated aTm on the field and in conference for the most part which made it a no brainer.

In-state program dominance is usually based on two things: State vs Flagship, and conference affiliation. UT will always win the first battle, but they are no longer winning (or tying) the second. The SEC brand is red hot right now and if aTm continues to compete at the level in the SEC that they currently are then UT dominance in that state is going to diminish substantially. aTm's move to the SEC is looking downright brilliant right now.
 
And that I will agree with you. UT is the flagship and aTm is in the better conference. Mack Brown is what is holding that program back. He's still winning 10 games a year, but when you aren't winning conference titles and competing for MNCs regularly with the talent they have there that's underperforming. Very few coaches can win consistently at the highest levels. I just don't see Aggy appealing to national recruits like UT has or should be. MB's allegiance to Texas HS football is what's holding them back, iyam.

FWIW, I think aTm will be down this year in the SEC, but we'll see the 3rd week of the season.
 
It appears to me that Texas and a lot of the Big 12 is the teams appear to play softer as the spread offense get more prevalent in the Big 12. The few times I have watched UT over the past few years they play soft on both sides of the ball. OU is guilty of this also - it was very apparent in the ND games (and I really dislike the Irish) - The Sooners got smacked in the mouth and wilted. KSU won the Big 12 by being a hard nosed team. You can argue Mack Brown's merits or lack there of but it is obvious that his time is past. Bob Stoops may be in that category also...his teams have way underperformed for the Talent level they have..

A&M has benefited by going to the SEC especially since they performed well this year. Players know the SEC is a big stage for getting to the NFL so that is a selling point in recruiting. The Big 12 Brand has taken a hit with the defections over the past couple of years.
 
NMBuff said:
And that I will agree with you. UT is the flagship and aTm is in the better conference. Mack Brown is what is holding that program back. He's still winning 10 games a year, but when you aren't winning conference titles and competing for MNCs regularly with the talent they have there that's underperforming. Very few coaches can win consistently at the highest levels. I just don't see Aggy appealing to national recruits like UT has or should be. MB's allegiance to Texas HS football is what's holding them back, iyam.

FWIW, I think aTm will be down this year in the SEC, but we'll see the 3rd week of the season.
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I agree with you 100% that Texas has the tradition behind them. Young high school kids live in the present, and the last time Texas won big was the NC years ago with Vince Young. A&M has all the hype now with "Johnny Football".
 
'Tini said:
aTm pretty much took over Texas this last cycle.
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Let's see what happens longer term, especially if/when UT replaces Mack with someone who decides to go out and work recruiting again instead of just telling kids "We're Texas, you ought to sign with us." which still works for a lot of them.

There is enough talent in the state of Texas for A&M and Oklahoma to have tremendous classes just picking up scraps but in the long term UT is always going to be the flagship program. If the UT coach does the work the Horns are going to get the majority of the best players almost every year.

The fact that A&M did as well as they did probably has a lot of Texas supporters wanting to push the button on Mack right now. Another year or two of it and the decision will be forced no matter what Mack or Dodds wants to do.
 
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