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about the issue where minority coaches only get one shot.....

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by buffaholic, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I think Embree stated that the only African-American coach (out of 41) that ever got another shot was Willingham.

    Is this unique to African Americans?

    Do coaches of any race get rehired when they are fired from their first Head Coaching job? I don't think they do.

    Will Steve Fairchild get another shot?

    Willingham was successful enough at Stanford, which got him a chance at U of W after getting fired at Notre Dame.

    Of the 41 that were fired, how many of those were in their first head coaching jobs?
    How does that compare to white head coaches fired from their first head coaching jobs?

    Because there is not a long history of African-American head coaches at the college level, is it possible that the statistics are skewed because many of these coaches were fired from their first head coaching jobs? Perhaps all of them?

    It seems to me that the head coaches I can think of that got a 2nd shot, all had success at a stop or two along the way, before the job they were fired from. In other words, they had 10-15 years of successful head coaching experience under their belt. I can't think of any African Americans off the top of my head that fit that criteria. Willingham was fired twice and the last time, after going 0-11. He probably has seen his last chance after that level of failure.

    There may be others? Anyone?
     
  2. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    That's what I was thinking the other day. How many coaches have been fired from a job and been rehired later on? I can't think of many, especially lately. In the NFL it seems to happen more often, but Herm Edwards got a couple of shots at it.
     
  3. Bienemy4life

    Bienemy4life Member

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    ****** head coaches generally do not get a second shot. Dog bites man.

     
  4. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting idea.

    Mark Mangino's first job was at KU. He hasn't been rehired (although he is obviously actively lobbying).
    Mike Stoops first job was at Arizona. He hasn't been rehired (admittedly only one season removed from firing).
    Chuck Long's first job was at SDSU. He hasn't been hired back as a head coach.
     
  5. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm trying to think of one. I can think of some guys who were hot candidates when they got their first job (ie, Chuck Long) and never got another one. I can't think of anyone who was fired from his 1st HC job and got hired again except for Ron Zook. This isn't like the NBA where they constantly recycle coaches.
     
  6. Chromeburn

    Chromeburn Member

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    A lot of guys don't get second jobs. And the majority of them are white. I think in 20 years we will see more black coaches. But the best ones are usually found in the pro's.
     
  7. BinaryBuff

    BinaryBuff mmmm...beer Club Member

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    There are lots of retreads out there. Neuheisel got another chance at UCLA. Mora got a another chance at UCLA (nice trend). Petrino absolutely will. Mike Price did. Rich Rod. Terry Bowden. Charlie Weis. Dan McCarney.

    But, it does seem sadly true that black HCs don't get many (any) 2nd chances.

    ---
    And now that I re-read the OP, I see you said fired from their 1st HC job..
     
  8. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Yeah - I thought of Ron Zook as well. He was such a great recruiter, that I think Illini almost felt like they needed to try again with him. But it doesn't happen much.

    Even guys who had a strong first stop as a head coach, and bombed round 2 are generally out. Willingham got the 2nd chance, but it was his 3rd stop.

    Karl Dorrell has a point. But doesn't Kirk Koetter also? Kirk built Boise State.
    It's hard to get a 2nd chance in this business...
     
  9. skibum

    skibum Peed in your Cheerios. Club Member

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    I know there are a few that got a second chance after getting canned from their first HC position. I had thought of one the other day, but can't for the life of me remember who it was. The simple fact is that such examples are pretty thin on the ground. I also suspect that those that did get "second chances" had to do some time in purgatory first (back to coordinator, DII, etc).
     
  10. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Who was the former Denver defensive coordinator who went to Syracuse? He has never gotten another head coaching job.
     
  11. Buffenuf

    Buffenuf massive tool

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    Bill Mallory: he got fired from CU was hired 2 yrs. later by No. Illinois and ended up at Indiana, as their winningest FB coach.

    Oh yeah and don't forget Mike Price: Wazzou to Alabama where he was fired and then to UTEP!
     
  12. BinaryBuff

    BinaryBuff mmmm...beer Club Member

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    Greg Robinson?
     
  13. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Brewster at Minnesota - one and done.
    Yes - Greg Robinson - one and done.
     
  14. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Charlie Weis

    Had to go back to OC for several years and take a much lower profile job than his first one, though.
     
  15. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    McCarney was fired with pretty good record at Iowa State. And after being a good coordinator at Florida, he gets back in at North Texas!
     
  16. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Yes. He was #1 as far as high profile, coming from the Pats to N.D. -Still don't know how KU went there though!
     
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Does Turner Gill being hired as the HC at Liberty count?

    Probably not since KU was his 2nd job.
     
  18. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Terry Bowden was fired at Auburn, then went into broadcasting, eventually making his way back to Northern Alabama! When you go from Auburn to Northern Alabama, and you are white, and you are a Bowden.... Must be a hard deal to come back from.
     
  19. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    No. Because if Turner Gill never had succeeded at Buffalo, I don't know that he'd have gotten the Liberty shot.

    But if he was white, I'd have to count it. ;)

    Seriously, I took the guys out of this that had proven themselves elsewhere before getting fired. Turner Gill's situation is like many of those. He got another chance but he had a strong resume from Buffalo.
     
  20. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    Mike Leach
     
  21. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    True. Probably need a special category for coaches who don't get fired for losing though.
     
  22. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    Price and Leach weren't fired for poor performance, though. In fact, Price had just secured quite the position at Alabama.

    Rick didn't get fired for poor performance, did he? UW was certainly falling off, and we know a thing or two about that with him, but he got fired for that betting thing.
     
  23. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    "Embree didn't get fired for losing" --- FormerHCBM
     
  24. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Bama was Price's 3rd HC job and he didn't even get to coach a game.

    Rick was 33-14 at CU in his 1st job. And you're right - Washington didn't fire him for going 33-16.
     
  25. Buffenuf

    Buffenuf massive tool

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    Ex Buff coach, Jim Caldwell, Af-Am. Took the Wake job and was a terrible HC, getting fired.

    But he moved over and up to the Colts and had them 14-0 until he was ordered to rest his starters. NFL coach of the year and doing okay until he lost Peyton, then it was 2-14. Now he's QB coach for the Ravens.

    Another Af-Am ex-CU coach was Ron Dickerson: took over at Temple, the first D-1 Af-Am head coach and couldn't budge that program from the sub-basement.(Nobody could until Al Golden). Now at Gardener-Webb as DL coach on his son's staff.
     
  26. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I think you could even take guys out who had long runs of success and then went south and lost their first jobs. It would be hard to find minorities that fit that bill. It seems to me that the minority HC firings are almost exclusively being fired from their first job as a head coach.

    How does that compare to their white counterparts?

    Does either race get rehired? Seems not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  27. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Bob Davie - Had a very strong coordinator/assistant resume before becoming Notre Dame's coach for 5 years.

    He then went to work for ESPN for about 10 years before getting the job this year at New Mexico.
     
  28. skibum

    skibum Peed in your Cheerios. Club Member

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    Bob Davie is a pretty good example. He tried to get a job for several years after getting canned at ND, and no one would take him. I wonder if it was because he's white?
     
  29. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    Funny, if you actually actually do the math you may find the 1 black HC rehired actually makes re-hire rate higher for blacks than whites.
     
  30. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Bob Davie's resume is very solid. If he couldn't get a gig....

    As Notre Dame's head coach he was a two time National Coach of the year Semifinalist. ('98 and '00).
    Assistant Coaching Resume:
    1996Notre Dame (Defensive Coordinator)8-3
    1995Notre Dame (Defensive Coordinator)9-3
    1994Notre Dame (Defensive Coordinator)6-5-1
    1993Texas A&M (Defensive Coordinator)10-2
    1991Texas A&M (Defensive Coordinator)12-1
    1991Texas A&M (Defensive Coordinator)10-2
    1990Texas A&M (Defensive Coordinator)9-3-1
    1989Texas A&M (Defensive Coordinator)8-4
    1988Texas A&M (Outside Linebackers)7-5
    1987Texas A&M (Outside Linebackers)10-2
    1986Texas A&M (Outside Linebackers)9-3
    1985Texas A&M (Outside Linebackers)10-2
    1984Tulane (Defensive Coordinator)3-8
    1983Tulane (Defensive Coordinator)4-7
     

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