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Assuming that CU is in the North Division

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I am actually pretty happy about it as long as some other things come to pass:

    1. Completely equal revenue sharing. Having the largest media markets in one division becomes pretty irrelevant if those programs aren't earning more for getting on national tv more. And all things being equal, ABC/CBS/ESPN will always choose an LA team over a Denver team.

    2. Championship Game is not fixed in a South Division city. The Big 12 compounded its divisional inequity problem by having the championship game in Dallas. This game needs to be played in Las Vegas every year, which would be a media bonanza and a trip I'd often make even if CU wasn't playing. Higher seeded team's home stadium would be 2nd best, but I think this makes the game less of an "EVENT" while Vegas would market the hell out of this game for us.

    3. No fixed cross-division rivalry games. With a 9-game conference schedule, everyone would play the 5 in-division teams every year and then 4 of the 6 cross-division games every year. That means that we'd go to LA, AZ and SF every 2/3 years while having a program from those areas coming to Boulder every 2/3 years. It's not as good as the every year we'd get by being in the same division, but it's not that bad either.

    4. Pac-12 television network. This must be formed as part of the deal. It would ensure that every game is on tv and help to balance things out further. This would also be a major boon to revenue.
     
  2. BinaryBuff

    BinaryBuff mmmm...beer Club Member

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    I think I'm coming around on this as well. I wasn't happy about CU being in the North away from CA schools/alums, but the idea is growing on me. As long as the #1 and #2 points you listed happen. $$ is split equally and championship game is NOT held in LA/BayArea. I think I'd be okay with it being in Phoenix under the idea that UA and ASU likely aren't gonna be playing in that game very often.
     
  3. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    1. That ESPN/abc thing will be less of an issue if we have a Pac-12 TV Network.

    2. Las Vegas makes sense because the Pac-12 fan is less likely to travel compared to the Big 12 fan and the need for a bigger stadium isn't there. A good starting point in case the Pac-12 CCG becomes successful like the Big 12 CCG and SEC CCG. Given the ACC CCG trends, going to LV is a smart thing...I hate watching empty stadiums even on TV. Many Utah Ute fans have argued against this but IMO, they are not as aware of what they are getting themselves into as we are.

    3. We will still play one Arizona, one SoCal, and one NorCal team a year at home or on the road. This should guarantee one California game every year. I think the Pac-12 is more better set up than the Big 12 was naturally. Looking back, we should have split the Texas schools up in the first place and gone with more of an East-West division.

    4. See response #1. I nearly fell in love with the MTN during the week of CU-CSU because it was nothing but sports and showcased everything that the MWC had to offer. We MUST have the Pac-12 Network!
     
  4. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    If we are stuck in the North division there are a few things I want to see:

    1) Revenue sharing equality, just like you wrote. An absolute must.
    2) Increased commitment on better facilities from CU. In the North we have a chance to compete facility wise if we can just get the ball rolling.
    3) A better product on the field. I do not want to go into this conference with everyone thinking we are another WSU.
    4) All the other things you wrote in no particular order.
     
  5. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    Agree on all counts. Being in the North, in the long run, is better I believe. CU "feels" more like a Pac-12 North school. CU playing the Washington and Oregon schools annually makes more sense, honestly. I too wanted guarantees about playing Cali teams but the original post above is good with me. Nine conference games is a must. You get that and you'll see everyone enough that it doesn't feel too distant.
     
  6. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    CU in Pac-10 North is a terrible idea and bad for CU sports. Don't start rolling over on this yet -- we will be in an advantageous position from (1) a recruiting standpoint, and (2) an alumni relations standpoint if we were in the same division as the SoCal schools.

    I've also heard about the 3 4-team pods, whereby each school would play 3 of the teams in each pod (Pacific NW Schools, Cali schools, AZ + CU + Utah) --- and this would be done even in a North/South split --- and while this is better, I still don't like it.

    Stay strong -- CU to Pac10 South.
     
  7. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    Why no fixed games? Yearly rivalry games are one of the great things about college football. You'd want to take away Stanford-Cal, UO-OSU, USC-UCLA every year? That would be a loss for the conference.
     
  8. dply

    dply Doble hoja Club Member

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    With N/S split those teams would play each other every year.
     
  9. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    That is the same feeling I had until late August when it started to become more clear that the Buffs were going to be in the North. We have more tradition built up with Oregon and Washington than the other Pac-10 regions. Just look at the positives and with the Pac-12 TV Network, it should eliminate many negatives out there.

    The Bay Area and SoCal are seperated by six hours so the California Buff alumni from both CA regions can watch the Buffs in either region. The Buffs will play at least one game in California per season so those California alumni will see their long missed & beloved Buffs once every year instead of once every ten years. It killed me when I couldn't watch the Buffs on TV for seven years while I was in college and the only time they were on TV in college was the CU-NU and Big 12 CCG that the Buffs played in.

    Those SoCal and NorCal Buffs should be able to go to at least two CU games on the road in Pac-12 play and I think that is good enough...just remind them about CU not visiting the west coast every year compared to what is coming and they should have an easier time jumping on board.

    Remember, not every Pac-12 school save for the Arizona schools will be happy about this.
     
  10. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    +1
     
  11. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    Bohn has to agree, I thought one of the "conditions" to us joining was being in a Southern Division.
     
  12. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Even if we visit SoCal twice every four years, it's still much better than what we had in the Big 12. Didn't we play in Texas twice every four years? BU and TT are visiting Boulder and didn't UT and A&M visit Boulder in the same year? That probably hindered our recruiting in Texas and if we visit California once every year, it's still a better deal than visiting Texas every other year. The Arizona schools could get that same deal about visiting NorCal schools in the same year and then the SoCal schools in a different year.
     
  13. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    Sure, it might be a better deal, but it still doesn't make it as good a deal as it could be. Stay strong -- CU to Pac-12 South!
     
  14. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Someone needs to do a spreadsheet on what games every Pac-12 school would play in that situation.

    This means we play three CA schools per year and very well could have us playing in SoCal three times every four years. This applies to the Arizona schools and makes everything fair as long as the rivalry games are not interrupted which is the risk in this situation.
     
  15. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    I agree that the 3 4-team pod (while still in North/South Divisions) is probably the fairest way to go, but I'm not sure Larry Scott will go with it because, frankly, it's sort of confusing. Still, it's much better than putting CU up in the North without as much access to California as other schools. I'm really afraid that the EXACT same thing that happened with the Big 12 North/South will happen if the Pac 12 splits up in North/South Divisions. California is the key (for recruiting), and if you give 6 schools a divisional lockdown on the state it will cause a league of Haves (California schools plus AZ schools) and Have Nots (Pac-12 North).
     
  16. KingPants

    KingPants Club Member Club Member

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    You can't plus one your own post. Ridiculous.
     
    dply likes this.
  17. dply

    dply Doble hoja Club Member

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    +1
     
  18. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    I crack myself up.

    +1
     
  19. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I hear your fears Sportsfan but if they do equal revenue sharing I really don't see it being a huge issue.
     
  20. Sportsfan101

    Sportsfan101 Active Member

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    My concern is more along recruiting lines. Big 12 didn't have huge revenue disparity (I think Texas made about $12m from Big 12 while CU made about $10m from Big 12), but I think recruiting access is key. Of course, I could be wrong.
     
  21. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    In the other thread discussing this stuff I ignored Las Vegas as a site because they don't have an appropriate venue. Even with it, it's highly questionable to move the game and much of the revenue completely out of the conference states.
     
  22. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I was concerned about those Arizona schools having more access to California compared to the North schools until the pod thing was floated. That was the pretty much the last reservation I have about the pod system until I realized the rivalries could be impacted but I believe that can be overcome easily.

    You do have a short memory about UW...they are the longtime king of the NW and when they are down, the other NW schools benefit as a result. That is precisely what we are seeing right now. While CU is #2 in all-time wins and winning % behind USC, UW is #3 behind the Buffs. UO is just on a great run right now and all good things come to an end. Oregon State had a losing season for over 20 years before Erickerson came aboard and turned that program around...the Ducks weren't all that great either. WSU can be seen in the same light. When it comes to the long term, it favors CU. People are focusing too much on the short term in this situation.

    I strongly believe that at the early October Pac-12 meetings, this will be all explained to the Pac-12 presidents & ADs. Being able to go to SoCal three times out of four years is better than going to SoCal every other year.

    Don't be surprised if that is already a done deal. The Pac-12 is talking to Wilmer from the SJMN as a way to prepare us for the inevitable.

    This is only for the football part and the California schools will have all the other sports to play against each other. Everyone is going to have to compromise in this situation. That makes me wonder what the heck CU's president and AD at the time were thinking when it came to doing this with the Big 12.
     
  23. Del

    Del Member

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    Don't want CU in the North division and if we can't get at least 3 games guaranteed against Cali schools like in the pod proposal otherwise Bohn's stock and Larry Scott's stock both drop big in my book.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  24. Costa Rica Buff

    Costa Rica Buff Active Member

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    Has anyone considered that this divisional alignment makes the conference inherently less stable and therefore bad for everyone in the long run? It will gaurantee a situation where there are 'have's' and 'have nots' (big12 all over again?). The teams slotted to be in the north are going to fight this hard.
     
  25. GoBruinz

    GoBruinz Member

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    I agree with the revenue sharing and the 9 conference games. I completely disagree with having the Championship in Vegas -- the facilities are terrible and small (capacity is 40k), and the weather in Vegas in December is not that good. I still think the Championship should be held at the site of the #1 team, but if that is logistically impossible (having only 6 days to prepare), then a rotation between Phoenix, LA, the Bay Area, and Seattle is good. If the Championship game is rotated, I highly doubt you will be able to leave LA off the rotation list. Face it, in a rotation scenario, given where the schools are located, there is always the possibility of someone having a "home" game, or "virtually home" game.
     
  26. Buff_since76

    Buff_since76 Still a fan... Club Member

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    Are there going to be 9 divisional games for sure? If that is the case, then there are only 2 teams you won't play on an annual basis. Assuming that you go home and away, then rotate:

    2 out of every 12 years CU won't play a team in LA, but they will have games against both teams in SF
    4 out of every 12 years they will play only one team in LA, they may have 1 or 2 games with teams in SF
    6 out of every 12 years they play both teams in LA, and will have either 0, 1, or 2 games with teams in SF

    Worst case senario is that teams would only play 2 teams based in Cali.
     
  27. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    YMSSR, Buffnik. Especially the bolded part :thumbsup:
     
  28. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    Under the North/South split, all of those games would remain as they would be within the division. Same for UW-Wazzu and UA-ASU
     
  29. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    You can't change the fact that the California schools will still get most of the best California players regardless of divisional makeup. If we had things more fair in the Big 12, I don't think it would have prevented Texas from becoming strong again and the same goes for Oklahoma.

    Coming from a Sooner family, OU still won national championships even back in the Big 8 from recruiting Texas talent every year. The Arizona schools are seven to nine hours away from SoCal while OU is just a couple to a few hours away from Dallas so the Arizona schools don't have the kind of natural advantages that OU has.

    One recruiting market that would open up to CU would be the Washington high school talent and if we can take some of those kids away from the NW schools plus recruit from California, we can weaken the NW schools. They do have some kids that can play...weren't we in the running for Jake Heaps before he decided on BYU? I don't have enough information on Utah's recruiting trends to determine how this impacts them.

    The difference between being in the Big 12 and the Pac-12 is that in the Big 12, we were pretty much the only school getting more California kids & at the same time, we weren't recruiting very well in Texas due to the Texas visits twice every four years. In the Pac-12, we visit California at least once every year and three SoCal trips out of four years is well worth it.

    And by not being in the South, we don't have to deal with having to top USC just like Nebraska...just imagine CU in the North without Nebraska.

    Keep looking at the positives that I have posted and they far outweigh the negatives. Recruiting is just one piece of the big picture. The big picture here is that CU is in a conference with schools that think more like CU when it comes to academics and facilities which is in contrast with what the Big 12 schools do. The Big 12 schools sell their facilities over their academics while the Pac-12 schools are more apt to sell academics over facilities. I am aware that the Pac-12 schools aren't immune from building sports facilities but this isn't the Big 12 we are talking about.
     
  30. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    If revenue is shared equally, how do you get haves and have-nots?
     

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