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Big 10 expansion has begun! (if this link is right)

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by OKCBuff, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I think the dominoes might be starting to fall, kids. This station, which I heard got this from Peter King of SI says Nowledge U. and Mizzou are heading to the Big Televen along with Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse.

    The SEC won't sit back and watch them get all the attention so I think they'll target OU and UT (and baby bros OSU and A&M). The Big 12 is toast.

    http://www.wndu.com/sports/headlines/92447574.html
     
  2. buff4bcs1985

    buff4bcs1985 Hail to the King

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    and so it begins
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'd love to see an announcement soon. Make the dominoes fall. If we're leaving the Big 12, I'm hoping the conference breaks up so that we can avoid paying the exit fees.
     
  4. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I'm officially in that camp with this, BuffNik. Damn Texas teams. I loved the Big Eight so much and the early years of the Big 12 were fine too, but now it's just unbearable.

    The whole thing was a shotgun marriage anyway, based on TVs and survival. Interestingly enough, TVs and survival will break this apart, as the end of this conference will be reminiscent of this:

    [video=youtube;ulKwhhFOkgk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulKwhhFOkgk&feature=related[/video]

    Dan Bebee's character is played by Mel Brooks in this one. lol

    Anyway... when you can conceivably place most of your teams in other conferences, that's not good. At this moment, here's the expected ledger:

    Baylor: ???
    Colorado: Pac-10
    Iowa State: ???
    Kansas: ??? (their hoops program likely gets them somewhere I'd think)
    KSU: ???
    Missouri: Big 10
    Nebraska: Big 10
    Oklahoma: SEC
    Oklahoma State: SEC
    Texas: SEC
    Texas A&M: SEC
    Texas Tech: ???

    Assuming this happens, I figure the Big 12 collapses entirely and KU, KSU, ISU, Tech and Baylor try to form some sort of new Midwest Conference. Add in Houston, Tulsa and try to steal TCU, CSU and Air Force for a 10-team league. I dunno. But it's apparent at this point that seven Big 12 teams will be elsewhere within three years. It's about to get really interesting.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  5. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm hopeful that we can somehow pull Kansas with us. They're in the Association of American Universities and are Tier 1 for graduate research. Kansas City is also the #31 media market. Good fit for the Pac and a nice partner for CU.

    So, if CU, KU and Utah are added... who else?

    I think New Mexico makes the most sense and for it to be a Pac 14. State university with a large alumni base, academics are ok, media market is top 50 (#44) that's not in the existing Pac footprint, and there's history with the Arizona schools especially but also with Utah and Colorado.

    Importantly, the cultures at each of those 4 institutions mesh with the Pac.

    ************

    Of the 63 AAU members, here are the ones that are west of the Mississippi and play D1 football:

    Arizona (Pac)
    Cal (Pac)
    Colorado (B12)
    Iowa (B10)
    Iowa State (B12)
    Kansas (B12)
    Minnesota (B10)
    Missouri (B12)
    Nebraska (B12)
    Rice (C-USA)
    Stanford (Pac)
    Texas (B12)
    Texas A&M (B12)
    Tulane (C-USA)
    UCLA (Pac)
    USC (Pac)
    Washington (Pac)
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm hopeful that we can somehow pull Kansas with us. They're in the Association of American Universities and are Tier 1 for graduate research. Kansas City is also the #31 media market. Good fit for the Pac and a nice partner for CU.

    So, if CU, KU and Utah are added... who else?

    I think New Mexico makes the most sense and for it to be a Pac 14. State university with a large alumni base, academics are ok, media market is top 50 (#44) that's not in the existing Pac footprint, and there's history with the Arizona schools especially but also with Utah and Colorado.

    Importantly, the cultures at each of those 4 institutions mesh with the Pac.

    ************

    Of the 63 AAU members, here are the ones that are west of the Mississippi and play D1 football:

    Arizona (Pac)
    Cal (Pac)
    Colorado (B12)
    Iowa (B10)
    Iowa State (B12)
    Kansas (B12)
    Minnesota (B10)
    Missouri (B12)
    Nebraska (B12)
    Rice (C-USA)
    Stanford (Pac)
    Texas (B12)
    Texas A&M (B12)
    Tulane (C-USA)
    UCLA (Pac)
    USC (Pac)
    Washington (Pac)
     
  7. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I agree. KU deserves it and a Pac-14 with them and UNM would be ideal IMO. UNM and Albuquerque will only continue to grow and in 20 years no one will think oddly of them in the league.
     
  8. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    If this is true, the B-12 commish will have to comment on this pretty soon. Peter King is probably one of the more respected sports reporters in the business and usually won't stick his neck out there to make a comment like that without good information. OKBuff is right, behind the scenes the domino effect may well be in play already. Just when things looked like they might stay quiet for a while longer are now starting to heat up. Time to start checking some of the oppositions websites again.
     
  9. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    How is Peter King linked to this reporting? I think all he did was "tweet" a link to the WNDU article that was reported by Jeff Jeffers. I wouldn't say that Peter King is putting his credentials on the line with that.

    However, if it does go down like that:

    I wouldn't be so quick to place UT, A&M, OU, and maybe Okie-lite into the SEC.

    If the Big Ten isn't going after the Whorns, then you can damn sure bet they would rather have the Pac-10 take them than the SEC. How would that be possible?

    Fox.

    Fox Cable is the Big Ten's partner in their Big Ten Network. Fox also is one of the current TV partners with the Pac-10 and Big 12. Guaranteed they have been involved with Texas heavily over the years, and have had some involvement with UT about starting their own network.

    I 100% believe the statements that have come out of Texas, dating as far back as 1994, that they do not want to be a part of the SEC for academic reasons. The Big Ten was their first option, the Pac-10 will be their next.

    The Pac-10 currently has a very similar "hybrid" (read: Uneven) revenue distribution for TV payouts. This is inline with UT's demands.

    Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Colorado, and 1 of: Oklahoma State or Texas Tech will go to the Pac-10 if the Big Ten expands as layed out.

    It will basically be the same as the Big 12 format, with the national teams getting the majority of the national broadcasts and subsequent payouts. The "bone" that will be thrown to all the other schools is a bigger overall payout and better TV access as they create their own conference network much the same as the Big Ten has done.

    The Pac-10 might place some "goals" on some of those programs to get better academically, but they can't be too "high and mighty" with OU and whoever the 6th team is, as the Sooners are at least in the ballpark academically as Arizona State, Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington State. Adding that kind of football resume (and hoops too) will be too good to pass up. The sixth team would be accepted as necessary for getting the other five. Texas Tech might actually have an advantage over Okie-state with a significant investment at the state level already underway to get them (and Houston) into Tier I and AAU status being the specific goals. This would be similar to how Arizona State entered the Pac in 1979.

    The SEC might "counter" by going after ACC schools (FSU, Clemson?), and maybe Okie-lite if they get left at the alter, possibly Louisville, West Virginia or other Big East castoffs (Cincy just to stick it to the Big Ten?), and maybe even TCU, Baylor, or Houston enter into their list of consideration.

    The ACC would then have their choice of the remaining Big East schools to fill any of their openings with UConn being a shoe-in for that conference.

    That would mean the four "super-conferences" are settled, with Conference USA (maybe splitting between East/West) and the Mountain West trying to pickup the pieces as best they can.

    There could even be a "new" Super-mid-major conference with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, SMU, Baylor, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Louisivlle, Cincinnati, West Virginia, East Carolina, South Florida, and Central Florida. That conference could claim a spot as a BCS AQ conference (from the Big East) and have really good hoops credentials too. The MWC would then be forced to expand with Boise State and Fresno State and then one or three from the remaining WAC and Conference USA teams.

    Four Super-conferences and two "super" mid-majors? Still only six BCS AQ conferences with nearly all of the "at-large" spots reserved for the "Big 4 + ND". Congress would back off because the MWC teams now have a seat at the table, at least until Tulane went 12-0 again, or Miami of Ohio finds the next Big Ben and tries to break the BCS (insert joke here).

    Anyway, it could get crazy soon.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  10. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    We're going to the PAC 10 for free baby!! :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
     
  11. BuffLuKe

    BuffLuKe Club Member Club Member

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    I dont think we really have a choice other than the Pac 10 if all said above goes down. The Big 12 would not survive imho even adding good programs. I think we should go but we might lose a qb if we do.
     
  12. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    This whole thing could turn into a kind of settling out process. Four "super-conferences" of 14-16 teams each. One of two "sub-supers" taking in the leftovers from the Big XII, ACC, Big East, and skimming the top off of C-USA and the MWC. The result of this could be a major shift to fewer schools competing for the top prize and a number of schools left out in the cold. In the west this means that the bottom of the WAC and the MWC end up orphans. In the east schools like UConn and South Florida who don't have large revenues and long histories could be out in the cold. In the west schools like Nevada, Wyoming, and CSU could be in big trouble because of their historically low revenues and limited fan bases.
     
  13. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    c'mon Mike B. bring this one home for us.
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    As far as the article goes, this is so far from definitive that I don't care to believe it as anything more than just another rumor.

    Otherwise, so strange to see the NCAA's parity measures (less schollys, recruiting restrictions, etc) being counteracted by the brute financial situation. If this falls out, hell, the super schools could completely cut the NCAA out of the equation. They could (and probably will) hold their own tournament for the championship. In 10 years things could look completely different.
     
  15. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    The major conference schools have been paying the freight for the lower divisions for years and some really resent it. Even within conferences some programs have historically lived off the money producers in the conference.

    This could very well be the beginnings of a new organization in college sports with 60-70 schools in football and maybe 100 in basketball declaring their indepenence from the weight of the rest of the schools in the NCAA including the lower level schools and the D1 schools that are not on par in terms of producing revenue.
     
  16. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    It wouldn't surprise me if this killed the BCS and brought back the bowl tie-INS at the top. If we had a Big 10(11) w/ Neb, Miz, Pit, Syr and Rut added. And if we had a Pac with Col, Utah, Kan + 3 more added. Then, why not just have our conference tourney champions play each other in the Rose Bowl? Each team is national title game worthy, so just play our bowl (unless there's so much additional money in the BCS).
     
  17. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    What is the deal with all this talk about academic standards?

    When it comes to football, who cares whether or not a school is part of the AAU?
    It's not like the egg head graduate students and research faculty are suiting up on game day.
     
  18. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Because the university presidents that vote on which conference to align with and which schools to invite into their conference care about it.

    Some conferences, like the Big Ten, actually do form a research "alliance" with other conference members in order to expand their combined research and stand a better chance at getting federal funding. It is the same as pooling your TV markets in order to get a better deal.

    The Pac Ten presidents, and commissioners (past and present) have all stated numerous times that the academic background of any potential expansion candidates would be a primary concern.

    If it were not a concern then BYU would have been in the Pac-10 a long time ago.
     
  19. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, and it is not "just" about football.
     
  20. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    There's also academic cooperation between universities that are in a conference affiliation, generally on the graduate level. Research grants (gov't, foundations and corporate) plus private donations to academic departments are worth a hell of a lot more money to a university than a football team. Conference academic prestige helps to drive that money. This is a big reason why nearly all the CU people on the academic side support a move to the Pac even if they have to loan our AD the money to leave the Big 12.
     
  21. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    It sounds good in a campaign promise kind of way. But I can't think of a single story where being part of a the Big 12 conference has been a significant factor in the success of any non-sports related CU program. The biggest story out of CU this decade is the medical center, which has zippo to do with some sporting affiliation with our sports foes. I seriously doubt that any NASA funding or any of CU's Nobel prize winners are rooted in conference affiliations.

    Show me something concrete.

    It smells like ivory tower windbaggery to me.
     
  22. BuffLuKe

    BuffLuKe Club Member Club Member

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    Say this does happen and Texas and OU leave as well. Does CU really have a choice other than to join the Pac?
     
  23. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    That or become a mid major.
     
  24. BuffLuKe

    BuffLuKe Club Member Club Member

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    Well this reminds me of the expansion of the bball tourney, its gonna happen. Just a matter of time, CU should just take the invite, if we get one, and go with it.
     
  25. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    The most important thing is that if this becomes verified knowledge soon, our administration has to be on the ball with communicating to the Pac 10. The most important thing Colorado can do is position itself to be a player in the massive conference realignment that is about to happen. There are a lot of hungry mouths that will be trying to wheel and deal for their schools and Colorado, while already a natural selection for the Pac 10 and bringing a ton of positives with it, better not think we are a foregone conclusion to get invited.
     
  26. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    If the Big Televen is really about to become the Big 16, then I think the SEC and Pac-10, as the other conferences that look to be positioned to be survivors of all this, are going to need to follow suit and head for 16. If they do, the Pac-10 is really going to need to bring in UT and aTm. It's pretty much their only path from 10 to 16 that doesn't really bring down the overall strength of the conference. CU and UU might be good fits, but does filling out the 16 with UNLV, UNM, BYU and Boise really strengthen the league? Nope. Doesn't even do that much for them with the almighty television markets...

    Fill out with UT, aTm, KU and somebody else, and you get the Texass market, a great FB program, some much needed hoops credibility from KU and generally strengthen the league. And I'm not sure they'd have to sell out that much to UT to get them. I don't see the wHorns wanting to sit in the rubble of the Big XII competing with TCU and SMU every year. There's a reason they ditched those schools when the SWC died. And they might try to leverage the SEC against the Pac-10, but the SEC has so many expansion options in raiding the ACC and possibly taking the Okie schools that they have much less need to sell out to UT.

    No doubt, though, that UT will have some weight to throw around in this whole scenario. Just kick back and wait for the Sacky meltdown when they do... :lol:
     
  27. chipwich

    chipwich Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    **** Texas. One of the biggest benefits of joining the Pac-10(2) is getting away from those doooooshes.
     
  28. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

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    I would think UT would prefer the Pac10 to the SEC for many of the above reasons. The SEC would want them because of Texas. They may also try and get a team from the ACC that will led them into the NC and above states.

    If Aggy followed UT into the Pac10, well, that'd be hilarious. I also wouldn't want to be in a UT division in the Pac10 which is what would happen if they joined. Ugh. Hopefully the guys like Bohn will persuade the other schools to make sure that no voting-block is built, much like it was in the Big 12.

    The end of the Big 12 is near.....hopefully.
     
  29. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Just one more reason to Bail on the Big12, Texas is the only school who would lend any academic resources/prestige to CU. We already have more joint research projects rolling with Pac-10 schools than big 12 schools and we are attractive to them because of the amount of federal funding CU gets.
     
  30. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    IMO, the academic allignment argument is a farce. If your were the brass within the CU system, wouldn't you like to have another excuse to participate in a few more retreats and seminars in Pac 10 cities?

    The only numbers that are being thrown around with regards to conference allignment is TV broadcast revenue. Period.

    Everything else is windowdressing.
     

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