Bohn: we're not about to give up on Dan Hawkins

[Hank]

Last night was a hell of a lot worse than losing 70-3 to one of the best cfb teams ever.

I agree.

 

[buffsyko]

So what I boil this post down to, is you are willing to disregard you morals and sell you university down the river for the sake of winning football games? I am not. Doesn't mean I don't want to win, and it doesn't mean I don't expect to win. I think you can do BOTH!

The way I read this post, is that it doesn't matter how you win just win, and this is exactly the culture Hawkins is trying to change. CU is more than just a football team. So when guys like Hawkins come along, damn right I am going to support them.

He's here to win football games, that's the bottom line. If it's more about culture then cu needs to drop football or go to the ivy league.It's not fair to the players or fans to have a coach and AD who don't put winning as a priority.

 

[Chilly]

Somehing tells me that if the Buffs started 0-2 next year, you would still love the hire of Hawkins. Some fans wanna sing cumbaya others wanna win.

I will always think the Hawkins hire was a good hire at the time, but if AFTER his 5th season he doesn't have this team competing in the Big 12 North then I will agree that it is time to look in a new direction.

 

[mke1010]

Chilly- In regards to advocating a fifth year, this is what I said to you earlier:

Seems Chilly wants to give Hawkins 5 years to prove once and for all that his winning percentage is a mirage. Thing is, Hawkins himself, asked for 4 years. If I remember correctly, I heard him say something about year 4 "no excuses" and something about 10 wins. Now all of a sudden, one more year is needed to show that he can turn this program around?

Gimme me a break. Be a man Hawk. Admit that you have failed to live up to your own stated goals and step down. After all, THIS AINT INTRAMURAL SPORTS. If you follow the message you gave your kids, maybe they would respect you a little more.

 

[Chilly]

We could all be positive like you Chilly but it will not change the outcome of one to three wins this year. You should relax, they will not fire Hawkins during the season.



And four losing seasons in a row isn't going to hurt recruiting? Even if he does get a fifth year I don't see how he is going to recruit anyways.

Positive about the direction of our program, is NOT something I am right now. I have my questions. But I also have my opinion on the time frame it was going to take to turn things around, and so I am not willing to abandon that belief yet.

I positive about what I have seen on the field the last 2 weeks, is something I am not. This team is struggling. There are very few positives that I see in the last few weeks. This is a team that is just killing itself right now with very poor execution.

"I want to bring a national championship back to Boulder"
"10 and No"

2 games into his 4th season he is...

3 straight losing seasons, looking to tie CU's all time record of 4.
13-27 overall record
3-12 vs. the North
2-14 on the road
0-3 vs Kansas
0-3 vs. Mizzou

19-10 to Montana St.

Barely beating Eastern Washington at home

58-0 to Mizzou (our last bit of pride we had as we were #3 in the country for longest non shutout streak)

23-17 at home to CSU (first loss to rams in Boulder since 1986)

54-38 to Toledo, A MAC team killed us. Hawk foolishly kept his own son in to get more embarrased and then risked a huge injury to Cody. Not smart Dan!

Accusing media and fans they don't know what they're talking about and ignorantly thinking CU is fine. "It's little things!"

We seem to be regressing each year even though our talent has slightly improved. This **** would not be tolerated at any big time school. Time to find a coach who can get his team fired up and win!

I think it's time our fan base acknowledges the fact that CU is not a BIG TIME program the likes of OU, Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, and a few others. We are a program that has cycled through good and bad times for the last 75 years. The 90's was a time when this program surged and did some Great on the field things, but that is not the norm for us. We are what we are, so the expectation that we should act as if we are an OU are not realistic in my opinion.

That doesn't me I don't expect us to be competitive, which is something we are not right now, but big time schools can bring in the Urban Myers, Pete Carols, and Bob Stoops of the world. CU is NEVER going to attract those kind of coaches. We are going to have to find our hidden gems in guys like McCartney who were unknown quantities with upside at the time of their hire. big time schools can afford to change coaches every 3 years when things don't work because they can afford the "Next Big Thing". You have to take this into consideration when we want to start talking about how best to get out of the mess. The simple solution of just fire the guy and let the next unknown have shot, can do as much, if not more damage to a program, then waiting for the right time to make that decision. If a change is what is required, a I would rather see that happen when we a team loaded with upperclassman that underclass man.

 

[NuggNinja]

I have said it, and I will continue to say it even thought no one seems to want to hear it. Hawkins deserves 5 years. That is what it will take for him to turn the corner. The reality is, he still has a young team that has a lot of potential talent, but they are still learning how to compete. During the game today they mentioned how it seemed like the light finally went on for DS and that he had the best practice he has ever had. They said in passing that Hawkins told him that is the effort the needs from him in every practice.

This is what he means by doing this right. He understands the two loses are "right", but he also understands that he is teaching these kids how to give 100% all the time, even during practice. That IS doing things "right". He is teaching them that just having talent alone isn't enough to succeed and he is going to play the kids that show what they have in practice. What does this mean. Well for some like J-Fly the will leave, but for a large majority of them the light bulb will go off and when it does, this team will not only have talent, and upperclassman experience, but they will also be a team that knows how to give 100% at all times. And when this happens special things will happen for CU football.


Does this mean you give Hawkins a pass for ever to do it "right" NO. but you give him more than 3 seasons and 2 games. For me the number is 5. That is when he will have had a full recruiting cycle. If he can't get the kids to respond to his message by their senior year, then I agree, it's not going to work for him at CU.

5 years? He's in his fourth year, he has his guys and they are woefully under performing. While you might be enamored with little tidbits about "effort" in practice and teaching the guys the right way, he's had four years to teach guys the right way, and we've heard this garbage before.

You're not doing things right if you're not only not winning but not even being competitive against non-BCS schools. Guys taking poor angles on tackles is a product of poor coaching, the offense not being efficient and looking out of sync is a product of poor coaching.

In his 4th year, these are Hawkins guys and they were totally outclassed by Toledo.

How many top 25 or even close to top 25 recruiting classes has Hawkins brought in? He's struggled to keep Colorado's top prospects in state. The only reason Kasa even chose to come to CU is because Florida wanted to turn him into an offensive lineman.

By your logic, Alabama should have given Mike Shula one more year, instead of going out and getting a proven winner. Saban put together a good recruiting class and won a bowl game in 07, and turned his team into a national championship contender in 08.

If Alabama had given Shula another year with his guys, they might have missed out on getting Saban.

And it is worth noting that teams that limp to 2 wins, one win, or fail to win at all (If CU can't compete with a MAC team Big 12 teams are going to annihilate them), AND keep the guy that led the team to such an anemic record tend to struggle with recruits. People tend to prefer playing with winners to losers.

And then your excuse for Hawkins failure will be that he just needs more time to put together some wins to get better recruits.

Coaches at other programs are turning their teams around in the matter of a couple of years. 5 years is a ridiculous amount of time to give someone in this day and age.

 

[Chilly]

Chilly- In regards to advocating a fifth year, this is what I said to you earlier:

Seems Chilly wants to give Hawkins 5 years to prove once and for all that his winning percentage is a mirage. Thing is, Hawkins himself, asked for 4 years. If I remember correctly, I heard him say something about year 4 "no excuses" and something about 10 wins. Now all of a sudden, one more year is needed to show that he can turn this program around?

Gimme me a break. Be a man Hawk. Admit that you have failed to live up to your own stated goals and step down. After all, THIS AINT INTRAMURAL SPORTS. If you follow the message you gave your kids, maybe they would respect you a little more.

These are the statements that I keep reading on this board that make no sense to me. Have things ALWAYS gone the way you planned them in your choice of professions? When they didn't did you think walking away and giving up was the way to show your manhood? Did you walk into your bosses office and say "Well I really ****ed this up so I am out of here" I think we both understand that **** happens and when it does, you dig deep and do everything you can to get it turned around. You don't admit defeat and walk away, which is what it appears you are asking Hawkins to do.

 

[Chilly]

5 years? He's in his fourth year, he has his guys and they are woefully under performing. While you might be enamored with little tidbits about "effort" in practice and teaching the guys the right way, he's had four years to teach guys the right way, and we've heard this garbage before.

You're not doing things right if you're not only not winning but not even being competitive against non-BCS schools. Guys taking poor angles on tackles is a product of poor coaching, the offense not being efficient and looking out of sync is a product of poor coaching.

In his 4th year, these are Hawkins guys and they were totally outclassed by Toledo.

How many top 25 or even close to top 25 recruiting classes has Hawkins brought in? He's struggled to keep Colorado's top prospects in state. The only reason Kasa even chose to come to CU is because Florida wanted to turn him into an offensive lineman.

By your logic, Alabama should have given Mike Shula one more year, instead of going out and getting a proven winner. Saban put together a good recruiting class and won a bowl game in 07, and turned his team into a national championship contender in 08.

If Alabama had given Shula another year with his guys, they might have missed out on getting Saban.

And it is worth noting that teams that limp to 2 wins, one win, or fail to win at all (If CU can't compete with a MAC team Big 12 teams are going to annihilate them), AND keep the guy that led the team to such an anemic record tend to struggle with recruits. People tend to prefer playing with winners to losers.

And then your excuse for Hawkins failure will be that he just needs more time to put together some wins to get better recruits.

Coaches at other programs are turning their teams around in the matter of a couple of years. 5 years is a ridiculous amount of time to give someone in this day and age.

We are NOT Alabama. The situations are different. I did not say every circumstance dictates 5 years. Just his particular one. Here are situation I consider to be similar to CU where year 5 was when the corner was turned.

Pinkel at MU
Mangino at KU
Mack Brown at UNC
McCartney - CU
Bill Snyder - KSU the first time

All of these programs turned the corner in their 5th year

 

[NuggNinja]

Positive about the direction of our program, is NOT something I am right now. I have my questions. But I also have my opinion on the time frame it was going to take to turn things around, and so I am not willing to abandon that belief yet.

I positive about what I have seen on the field the last 2 weeks, is something I am not. This team is struggling. There are very few positives that I see in the last few weeks. This is a team that is just killing itself right now with very poor execution.


I think it's time our fan base acknowledges the fact that CU is not a BIG TIME program the likes of OU, Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, and a few others. We are a program that has cycled through good and bad times for the last 75 years. The 90's was a time when this program surged and did some Great on the field things, but that is not the norm for us. We are what we are, so the expectation that we should act as if we are an OU are not realistic in my opinion.

That doesn't me I don't expect us to be competitive, which is something we are not right now, but big time schools can bring in the Urban Myers, Pete Carols, and Bob Stoops of the world. CU is NEVER going to attract those kind of coaches. We are going to have to find our hidden gems in guys like McCartney who were unknown quantities with upside at the time of their hire. big time schools can afford to change coaches every 3 years when things don't work because they can afford the "Next Big Thing". You have to take this into consideration when we want to start talking about how best to get out of the mess. The simple solution of just fire the guy and let the next unknown have shot, can do as much, if not more damage to a program, then waiting for the right time to make that decision. If a change is what is required, a I would rather see that happen when we a team loaded with upperclassman that underclass man.

USC was not the program it is today before Pete Carroll and Pete Carroll was not a no-brainer, high profile, genius hire when he was hired. Since, Carroll flamed out in the pros and hadn't been coaching for a while when he was hired.

And your entire premise is repugnant. Accept the CU is not a big time program and accept a defeatist mentality?

How about: NO!

The reason those schools are "big time" programs is because there fan base demands quality, and doesn't stick to garbage that is FAILING TO GET THE JOB DONE!

The fan base needs to demand excellence and hold everyone who fails to achieve it accountable for their failure. Excuses should not be made for them.

And I'm not sure how you do more damage to the program than not being competitive with a MAC team on national tv. Oh, and ESPN announcers also derided CU for how awful they have become. That will sure help with recruiting and turning the program around!

 

[chipwich]

We are NOT Alabama. The situations are different. I did not say every circumstance dictates 5 years. Just his particular one. Here are situation I consider to be similar to CU where year 5 was when the corner was turned.

Pinkel at MU
Mangino at KU
Mack Brown at UNC
McCartney - CU
Bill Snyder - KSU the first time

All of these programs turned the corner in their 5th year

Chilly, if we give Hawkins another year and say we get 2-4 wins this year what would you consider "turning the corner" next year ?

I am on the fence. I really want things to turn around under Hawk but these last two games don't give me much hope.

 

[Darth Snow]

He did the same thing with Barnett... denied it till the day he fired him. I just hope we get a new coach lined up quickly so he can start recruiting.

 

[NuggNinja]

We are NOT Alabama. The situations are different. I did not say every circumstance dictates 5 years. Just his particular one. Here are situation I consider to be similar to CU where year 5 was when the corner was turned.

Pinkel at MU
Mangino at KU
Mack Brown at UNC
McCartney - CU
Bill Snyder - KSU the first time

All of these programs turned the corner in their 5th year

Colorado is also not MU, KU, UNC, or KSU. Those schools saw progress and were clearly building toward something.

What defensive scheme CU is going to rely on has been up in the air. What offensive scheme has been thrown up in the air. Last year, let's try the spread out, this year let's be a power run team.

Those guys had a vision of what they want and built toward it through recruiting. We have no idea what type of team Hawkins is trying to build.

And again, poor tackling and guys not having any idea about how to take an angle on a guy are things that can be corrected through coaching. They would not be a problem on a well coached team.

Hawkins has done a poor job of recruiting and a poor job of coaching but he should be given another year regardless of the futility of his fourth year because a handful of guys had good year fives?

That is absurd.

 

[SkiTownUSA]

He did the same thing with Barnett... denied it till the day he fired him. I just hope we get a new coach lined up quickly so he can start recruiting.

:nod: The sooner the better. The current coaching staff overall is poor quality. Keep Cabral and Hagan. Bring in new blood everywhere else.

 

[Chilly]

USC was not the program it is today before Pete Carroll and Pete Carroll was not a no-brainer, high profile, genius hire when he was hired. Since, Carroll flamed out in the pros and hadn't been coaching for a while when he was hired.

And your entire premise is repugnant. Accept the CU is not a big time program and accept a defeatist mentality?

How about: NO!

The reason those schools are "big time" programs is because there fan base demands quality, and doesn't stick to garbage that is FAILING TO GET THE JOB DONE!

The fan base needs to demand excellence and hold everyone who fails to achieve it accountable for their failure. Excuses should not be made for them.

And I'm not sure how you do more damage to the program than not being competitive with a MAC team on national tv. Oh, and ESPN announcers also derided CU for how awful they have become. That will sure help with recruiting and turning the program around!

No the reason those schools are big time programs is because of the amount of money that gets donated the Athletic department. CU will never generate those kinds of funds. Not calling anyone out for this, it is just the facts.

Demanding Excellence means nothing if you are not willing to take the time to assess the situation and then have a realistic plan in place to achieve your goals. We can do all the chest thumping and ranting we want in the name of demanding excellence. The bottom line is you have to recognize the cards you have been dealt and then determine how best to play that hand.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=1869&end=2008&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

As much as I want to be in this list
1 Michigan 0.73982 872 295 36 1203
2 Notre Dame 0.73639 831 284 42 1157
3 Texas 0.71785 832 317 33 1182
4 Oklahoma 0.71648 791 297 53 1141
5 Ohio State 0.71508 808 306 53 1167
6 Alabama 0.70855 799 316 43 1158
7 Southern Cal 0.70614 766 303 54 1123
8 Nebraska 0.70101 817 337 40 1194
9 Tennessee 0.69420 776 327 53 1156
10 Penn State 0.68934 800 349 42 1191

the reality is these teams will always have the pick of top coaches and HS talent based on their donor support and history.

21 Colorado 0.60533 663 426 36 1125
22 Virginia Tech 0.60319 658 425 46 1129
23 Texas A&M 0.59912 659 433 48 1140
24 West Virginia 0.59751 673 446 45 1164
25 Fresno State 0.59644 539 360 29 928
26 Georgia Tech 0.59511 661 443 42 1146
27 Bowling Green 0.59393 483 322 52 857
28 Southern Miss 0.59347 524 355 25 904
29 Arkansas 0.59091 650 444 39 1133
30 Clemson 0.59017 632 432 45 1109

This is the list of teams that we fall into. All of these teams have had great teams at different times in the past, but all of these teams are at a different level, and what is required for this list of teams to be successful is very different than what is required for the teams at the top of this list. Doesn't mean I admit defeat. It means that I understand there is a difference and so you have to go about things differently.

 

[NuggNinja]

No the reason those schools are big time programs is because of the amount of money that gets donated the Athletic department. CU will never generate those kinds of funds. Not calling anyone out for this, it is just the facts.

Demanding Excellence means nothing if you are not willing to take the time to assess the situation and then have a realistic plan in place to achieve your goals. We can do all the chest thumping and ranting we want in the name of demanding excellence. The bottom line is you have to recognize the cards you have been dealt and then determine how best to play that hand.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=1869&end=2008&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

As much as I want to be in this list
1 Michigan 0.73982 872 295 36 1203
2 Notre Dame 0.73639 831 284 42 1157
3 Texas 0.71785 832 317 33 1182
4 Oklahoma 0.71648 791 297 53 1141
5 Ohio State 0.71508 808 306 53 1167
6 Alabama 0.70855 799 316 43 1158
7 Southern Cal 0.70614 766 303 54 1123
8 Nebraska 0.70101 817 337 40 1194
9 Tennessee 0.69420 776 327 53 1156
10 Penn State 0.68934 800 349 42 1191

the reality is these teams will always have the pick of top coaches and HS talent based on their donor support and history.

21 Colorado 0.60533 663 426 36 1125
22 Virginia Tech 0.60319 658 425 46 1129
23 Texas A&M 0.59912 659 433 48 1140
24 West Virginia 0.59751 673 446 45 1164
25 Fresno State 0.59644 539 360 29 928
26 Georgia Tech 0.59511 661 443 42 1146
27 Bowling Green 0.59393 483 322 52 857
28 Southern Miss 0.59347 524 355 25 904
29 Arkansas 0.59091 650 444 39 1133
30 Clemson 0.59017 632 432 45 1109

This is the list of teams that we fall into. All of these teams have had great teams at different times in the past, but all of these teams are at a different level, and what is required for this list of teams to be successful is very different than what is required for the teams at the top of this list. Doesn't mean I admit defeat. It means that I understand there is a difference and so you have to go about things differently.

Money doesn't magically make a program work. It's the voice of the people who give the money that put the heat on the school that make things happen. Those people are unwilling to accept mediocrity, let alone the patheticness that Hawkins has brought to Colorado.

Do you realize that Toledo has a first year head coach? Toledo's first year head coach made Hawkin's team in its fourth year look like complete garbage. That's pathetic and unacceptable.

How many road games has Hawkins won while at CU? Hawkins' recruiting classes have been unremarkable, his in game coaching impresses no one, his teams cannot play on the road, and now they're getting outclassed by MAC teams that won three games last year with first year head coaches.

Your argument seems to boil down to Mac turned the program around in its fifth year, so Hawkins should get the same chance. That is ridiculous, none of Hawkins apologists can point to anything to hang their hat on with respect to his tenure at CU.

Hawkins' quote was 10 wins, no excuses. That was his evaluation of the talent he had amassed. If that is the case, his talent evaluation skills are obviously as poor as his coaching.

And I'll ask again, what kind of recruiting class do you expect CU to get when the team is getting embarrassed in games on national tv, and trashed by commentators during other games, when the coach responsible for this is still heading the program?

 

[Nor Cal Buff]

We belong in the same class as Bowling Green, Southern Miss and Fresno St? GTFO.

Your claim that he needs 5 years is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that you compare his 4th year to other coaches who were improving and actually building. The real comparison here is Washington and Ty Willingham. In fact, Washington is the school we are probably most similar to:

1 BCS bowl this decade
1 National Championship last 20 years
Unsupportive administration
Hostile local media
Program that needed to be cleaned up
0-12 in year 4 of inept coach?????

 

[Chilly]

Colorado is also not MU, KU, UNC, or KSU. Those schools saw progress and were clearly building toward something.

What defensive scheme CU is going to rely on has been up in the air. What offensive scheme has been thrown up in the air. Last year, let's try the spread out, this year let's be a power run team.

Those guys had a vision of what they want and built toward it through recruiting. We have no idea what type of team Hawkins is trying to build.

And again, poor tackling and guys not having any idea about how to take an angle on a guy are things that can be corrected through coaching. They would not be a problem on a well coached team.

Hawkins has done a poor job of recruiting and a poor job of coaching but he should be given another year regardless of the futility of his fourth year because a handful of guys had good year fives?

That is absurd.

Pinkel 6-5 in year 4
2001 Missouri 4-7 3-5 5th (North)
2002 Missouri 5-7 2-6 5th (North)
2003 Missouri 8-5 4-4 3rd (North) L Independence
2004 Missouri 5-6 3-5 2nd (North)



Mangino
2002 Kansas 2–10 0–8 6th (North)
2003 Kansas 6–7 3–5 T–4th (North) L Tangerine
2004 Kansas 4–7 2–6 T–5th (North)
2005 Kansas 7–5 3–5 5th (North) W Fort Worth


Mack Brown
1988 North Carolina 1–10 1–6 7th
1989 North Carolina 1–10 0–7 8th
1990 North Carolina 6–4–1 3–3–1 5th
1991 North Carolina 7–4 3–4 5th

McCartney - CU
1982 Colorado 2-8-1 1-5-1 T-6th
1983 Colorado 4-7 2-5 T-6th
1984 Colorado 1-10 1-6 7th
1985 Colorado 7-5 4-3 3rd L Freedom Bowl

Bill Snyder - KSU the first time
1989 Kansas State 1-10 0-7 8th
1990 Kansas State 5-6 2-5 6th
1991 Kansas State 7-4 4-3 4th
1992 Kansas State 5-6 2-5 6th (tie)

Dan Hawkins
2006 Colorado 2–10 2–6
2007 Colorado 6–7 4–4 L Independence
2008 Colorado 5–7 2–6


Do you not see the similarities in these records after year 3. Season 4 is not over yet. Let's not pretend like it's uncommon for teams to make a mid-season turn around in college football. Just look at WVU last year.

I will judge season 4 when season is 4 is done and over with. Not after 2 games. Pretending that we know what is going to happen for the rest of this year is just plain arrogance. Neither you nor I know what the future holds. I am not going to engage in fortune telling.

If you want to talk about the poor performance the last 2 weeks Great. we looked like crap and it needs to be corrected. But let's pretend as if we have some crystal ball that says we won't win any games this year.

 

[Chilly]

Money doesn't magically make a program work. It's the voice of the people who give the money that put the heat on the school that make things happen. Those people are unwilling to accept mediocrity, let alone the patheticness that Hawkins has brought to Colorado.

Do you realize that Toledo has a first year head coach? Toledo's first year head coach made Hawkin's team in its fourth year look like complete garbage. That's pathetic and unacceptable.

How many road games has Hawkins won while at CU? Hawkins' recruiting classes have been unremarkable, his in game coaching impresses no one, his teams cannot play on the road, and now they're getting outclassed by MAC teams that won three games last year with first year head coaches.

Your argument seems to boil down to Mac turned the program around in its fifth year, so Hawkins should get the same chance. That is ridiculous, none of Hawkins apologists can point to anything to hang their hat on with respect to his tenure at CU.

Hawkins' quote was 10 wins, no excuses. That was his evaluation of the talent he had amassed. If that is the case, his talent evaluation skills are obviously as poor as his coaching.

And I'll ask again, what kind of recruiting class do you expect CU to get when the team is getting embarrassed in games on national tv, and trashed by commentators during other games, when the coach responsible for this is still heading the program?

Miller, Scott, Siimmons, Katoa

These were all highly sought recruits that Hawkins was able to bring to boulder. I don't agree that his recruiting is an issue. I think he has done a very good job getting some of these players to come to CU.

 

[Chilly]

Chilly, if we give Hawkins another year and say we get 2-4 wins this year what would you consider "turning the corner" next year ?

I am on the fence. I really want things to turn around under Hawk but these last two games don't give me much hope.

My expectation is Hawkins needs to be 8-4 with a bowl win in year 5, regardless of how we finish this year.

If he does not go bowling next year then it's time to move on.

 

[Nor Cal Buff]

My expectation is Hawkins needs to be 8-4 with a bowl win in year 5, regardless of how we finish this year.

If he does not go bowling next year then it's time to move on.

This seriously is the most delusional stuff I've ever read.

 

[Junction]

Money doesn't magically make a program work. It's the voice of the people who give the money that put the heat on the school that make things happen. Those people are unwilling to accept mediocrity, let alone the patheticness that Hawkins has brought to Colorado.

Money may not magically make a program work, but neither does "the voice of the people". Fans can scream and prod and demand all they want, but if the program doesn't have money it isn't going to magically build facilities and produce an elite program....

 

[Duff Man]

My expectation is Hawkins needs to be 8-4 with a bowl win in year 5, regardless of how we finish this year.

If he does not go bowling next year then it's time to move on.

Well, which is it? 8-4 with a bowl win or just making a bowl?

 

[mke1010]

I like how certain folks are bringing up records of successful coaches who had difficult 4th years.
My question is how many of those coaches predicted 10 wins with a no excuse mantra before the start of their fourth season?

 

[96 Buff]

Come on, people. He didn't predict 10 wins. He quite clearly stated that it was a goal, and a reachable one. Clearly he must have been talking about the EA Sports version of the Buffs.

 

[Chilly]

This seriously is the most delusional stuff I've ever read.

Where is the delusion. What is untrue about what I have said. It might be coming from a different perspective and many of the posters on the board maybe right about Hawkins not being able to achieve those goals. But I can assure I am not deluded into thinking Hawkins doesn't have a long way to go to meet those expectations.

 

[Chilly]

Well, which is it? 8-4 with a bowl win or just making a bowl?

Come on BB you know there is middle ground here.

If he only goes 7-5 but wins his bowl game, does that mean he has to go?
What if he goes 9-3 but loses a BCS bowl, does that mean he has to go/

I gave you my expectation for where I think this team can finish next year, and I have also gave you the bottom line.

No Bowl Game next year means it's time to move on. I will reserve any evaluation of next year AFTER that season has been played.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Positive about the direction of our program, is NOT something I am right now. I have my questions. But I also have my opinion on the time frame it was going to take to turn things around, and so I am not willing to abandon that belief yet.

I positive about what I have seen on the field the last 2 weeks, is something I am not. This team is struggling. There are very few positives that I see in the last few weeks. This is a team that is just killing itself right now with very poor execution.






I think it's time our fan base acknowledges the fact that CU is not a BIG TIME program the likes of OU, Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, and a few others. We are a program that has cycled through good and bad times for the last 75 years. The 90's was a time when this program surged and did some Great on the field things, but that is not the norm for us. We are what we are, so the expectation that we should act as if we are an OU are not realistic in my opinion.

That doesn't me I don't expect us to be competitive, which is something we are not right now, but big time schools can bring in the Urban Myers, Pete Carols, and Bob Stoops of the world. CU is NEVER going to attract those kind of coaches. We are going to have to find our hidden gems in guys like McCartney who were unknown quantities with upside at the time of their hire. big time schools can afford to change coaches every 3 years when things don't work because they can afford the "Next Big Thing". You have to take this into consideration when we want to start talking about how best to get out of the mess. The simple solution of just fire the guy and let the next unknown have shot, can do as much, if not more damage to a program, then waiting for the right time to make that decision. If a change is what is required, a I would rather see that happen when we a team loaded with upperclassman that underclass man.

We are a top 25 team in college football history, the 90's were not our only good time. We were very good in the late 60's all the way to the late 70's.

 

[NuggNinja]

Miller, Scott, Siimmons, Katoa

These were all highly sought recruits that Hawkins was able to bring to boulder. I don't agree that his recruiting is an issue. I think he has done a very good job getting some of these players to come to CU.

Wow, you're really hanging your hat on four guys in four years? CU is starting walk on WR's. Hawkins has had 1 top 25 recruiting class in his tenure at CU.

And more important than what professional scouts think is how the talent you actually bring in performs, and the talent Hawkins has underperformed. Scott is the only guy that has consistently looked good on the "impressive" list of Hawkins' recruits.

You're also inflating the interest Simmons received, by the way. Pretty sure K-State was the only other school to actually offer him.

 

[Duff Man]

It may seem like I am nitpicking, but I think we have to figure out what is good enough for year five (if he lasts). Saying at the start of the season that 8-4 plus a bowl win is the bear minimum and then changing that to just making a bowl game after the season is just prolonging the agony.

 

[Chilly]

I like how certain folks are bringing up records of successful coaches who had difficult 4th years.
My question is how many of those coaches predicted 10 wins with a no excuse mantra before the start of their fourth season?

So he is guilty of being overly positive? I could give two ****s about what statements he made to provide motivation for his team.

Please tell me there is more substance to the FIRE HAWK NOW camp than just the fact that he set high expectations for this team at the beginning of the season.

Was he really suppose to tell his team and the fans, yep .500 is what we expect this year. Really of all the things to point to and rip him for, this seems the weakest by far.