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Breaking: Mike McQueary Intends to sue Penn State

Sorry, but simply seeing it and reporting it to Joe Pa was not enough. This dude ****ing sucks too. When I see Penn State, I will always, ALWAYS, think of this disgusting scandal. How anybody wants to be associated with this program anymore is beyond me. **** Penn State.
 
I am hard pressed to be too critical of McQueary. He was low man on the totem pole, pretty young and clearly over his head with what he saw. I would like to think if I were him I would have intervened, or gone to the cops.
 
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Ringer said:
The first rhetorical question a defense attorney would ask to a jury during a closing argument in this civil damages trial would be: "Why didn't Mr. McQueary, after observing his boss bangin' a young boy in the showers, ever contact law enforcement authorities?". After that unanswerable question, I would say: "OK, maybe he was scared about losing his job, but then after he told his superiors and nothing was done about it, for like several years, wouldn't you, members of the jury, have reported it?" This guy is toast.
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The original question was "on what basis could/did he sue Pedo State?"

They punished him for saying something. That's the basis. The fact that he should have done more than what he did is completely beside the point (even though I very much agree that he should have).

The only factual questions for the jury were did Pedo State punish him for saying something (they did), and did it cause him damage (it did).

He probably definitely did more damage to his career by not pursuing it further, but again, in regards to this lawsuit, that is beside the point.

People of below average character can be harmed by terrible people and institutions, just because they are awful people themselves doesn't take away their legal cause for action.

A drug dealer who maims another drug dealer should still be charged with a crime, and the maimed drug dealer should still be able to sue him for damages - the fact that the he himself is a drug dealer is entirely beside the point.
 
skibum said:
The original question was "on what basis could/did he sue Pedo State?"

They punished him for saying something. That's the basis. The fact that he should have done more than what he did is completely beside the point (even though I very much agree that he should have).

The only factual questions for the jury were did Pedo State punish him for saying something (they did), and did it cause him damage (it did).

He probably definitely did more damage to his career by not pursuing it further, but again, in regards to this lawsuit, that is beside the point.

People of below average character can be harmed by terrible people and institutions, just because they are awful people themselves doesn't take away their legal cause for action.

A drug dealer who maims another drug dealer should still be charged with a crime, and the maimed drug dealer should still be able to sue him for damages - the fact that the he himself is a drug dealer is entirely beside the point.
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One of the better posts on the subject, completely correct.

The reason that a person like McQueary is allowed to sue in a situation like this and be awarded damages is twofold. First for whatever character he may have or not have he did act in a manner which others didn't regarding the wrong that was going on. For the actions he took, even though inadequate in the eyes of many he was punished by PSU and suffered loss of both reputation and income. Doing the right thing, even if not doing it completely or correctly should not be cause to be damaged.

More importantly from a societal standpoint to allow PSU or any other institution to have the ability to quiet others from acting by the threat of doing similar damage cannot be left unpunished. Not only does a significant award hopefully cause PSU to not act similarly in the future it is to the benefit of society for other institutions to see this and be more hesitant to act in a similar way.

McQueary wanted to be a coach and likely had dreams of someday being a head coach at a major college like his idol and mentor Joe Paterno was. That he would have ever reached that point is highly unlikely but because of the actions of PSU it is much more unlikely now. I would venture that it is less than the other coaches on that same staff who had to have at least heard rumors if not seen Sandusky acting inappropriately and did nothing at all. They will in time and with a few more stops on the coaching circuit not have their name associated with this and be seen as guys who "go along and get along" and thus can be trusted to be hired.

I would also venture that by the time he pays all his legal expenses other associated cost McQueary will end up with less money than the actions of PSU will end up costing him in future income. His name is likely to be toxic for a long time to come.
 
Seems to me we are crucifying the wrong guy here. It wasn't McQueary abusing those kids. He was in a horribly difficult situation. He was the ONLY one who said anything. Don't try to tell me that he's the only one who saw something. Those other coaches knew what was going on and said nothing. We all like to think we would do the "right thing", but until faced with the possibility of throwing away your career and risking your livelihood and the ability to provide for your family, we have no room to judge.
 
sackman said:
Seems to me we are crucifying the wrong guy here. It wasn't McQueary abusing those kids. He was in a horribly difficult situation. He was the ONLY one who said anything. Don't try to tell me that he's the only one who saw something. Those other coaches knew what was going on and said nothing. We all like to think we would do the "right thing", but until faced with the possibility of throwing away your career and risking your livelihood and the ability to provide for your family, we have no room to judge.
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Plus the guys he was going against (Jerry & Joe) were coaches, mentors and father figures to him. He could have done more. He could have handled things better/differently. I'm sure he loses sleep over that. But in the midst of everyone and everything, relative to everyone else he was the white knight and very powerful people colluded to destroy him.
 
sackman said:
Seems to me we are crucifying the wrong guy here. It wasn't McQueary abusing those kids. He was in a horribly difficult situation. He was the ONLY one who said anything. Don't try to tell me that he's the only one who saw something. Those other coaches knew what was going on and said nothing. We all like to think we would do the "right thing", but until faced with the possibility of throwing away your career and risking your livelihood and the ability to provide for your family, we have no room to judge.
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he saw a child getting raped and didn't take any steps to stop the act. I feel good about my judgement here.
 
sackman said:
Is Sandusky still raping kids? No. McQuaeary definitely did something.
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that's fair. he did take some step toward preventing future acts.

I should've chosen my words more carefully and limited to "walking away and leaving JS to finish abusing that kid"
 
hokiehead said:
he saw a child getting raped and didn't take any steps to stop the act. I feel good about my judgement here.
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Also reports that he was a victim of sexual abuse when he was a kid and had not dealt with it (gambling problem, etc.). I think people should be very reluctant to throw stones or judge him for not reacting in a way we would hope that we would personally react if confronted by that type of situation.

He didn't do enough. He was also the only person willing to do anything.
 
Buffnik said:
Also reports that he was a victim of sexual abuse when he was a kid and had not dealt with it (gambling problem, etc.). I think people should be very reluctant to throw stones or judge him for not reacting in a way we would hope that we would personally react if confronted by that type of situation.

He didn't do enough. He was also the only person willing to do anything.
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Echo this. Easy to sit back and criticize from a distance. He was the one who actually did something rather than nothing. Much better targets for our anger.

Also, a few years back I was involved in a situation where we caught an individual stealing funds from a charity. Our failure (since corrected) to have adequate controls on the cash both allowed him the access to steal and prevented us from being able to turn the case over for prosecution.

Found out after the fact that he had been stealing from other charities as well. Worse he was eventually caught luring underage girls (he was 19 at the time) on the internet and raping them.

It still bothers me that I didn't anticipate ahead of time and created a situation in which we could have prosecuted him and maybe he would have been in jail and a couple of his victims not become victims.

The rational side of me knows that had we had the evidence and turned it over he likely would not have spent significant time and would have done it anyways but it still bugs me and probably will as long as I remember what he did to those girls.

This slime bucket:
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this is probably pissing in the wind, but what the hell.

McQueary's case is not one of "hoping I would do the right thing in that situation". That expression applies if I find out my employer is over-billing customers. That expression applies when the cashier hands me an extra $20 back with my change. That expression applies when i find out that my neighbor disposes of his motor oil by pouring it in a hole in the ground.

That expression does not apply when we're talking about witnessing a child being raped. Especially if the perpetrator is someone you have a better-than-even chance of overcoming in a physical encounter. One does not "hope" to do the right thing in that situation. You either takes steps to stop the child rape (the one that's in progress at the moment) or you shoot yourself for being the weak, cowardly, miserable PoS that you are. McQueary was an adult at the time this happened -- not a confused child.

I realize that "accessory after the fact" does not apply here, but I would think there should be some criminal liability for witnessing a child rape and failing to notify law enforcement.

We're talking about child rape FFS. I understand some see it differently, and I most sincerely hope that none of us are ever in a position where we're faced with this choice.

Edit: not sure why I'm so fired up over this one. I guess some acts just appear particularly heinous.
 
MtnBuff said:
This whole thing is why the NCAA must have the power and the willingness to use it to regulate actions of member schools beyond the athletic arena.
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The Freeh Report had far-reaching outcomes for Penn State. The NCAA used the Freeh Report in lieu of its own investigation to impose sanctions on the Penn State football program. On July 23, 2012, the NCAA imposed a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reductions, and vacated all victories from 1998 to 2011.[10] NCAA President Mark Emmert stated that the sanctions were levied "not to be just punitive, but to make sure the university establishes an athletic culture and daily mindset in which football will never again be placed ahead of education, nurturing and protecting young people."[11]

The Big Ten Conference subsequently imposed an additional $13 million fine.[12]
 
hokiehead said:
this is probably pissing in the wind, but what the hell.

McQueary's case is not one of "hoping I would do the right thing in that situation". That expression applies if I find out my employer is over-billing customers. That expression applies when the cashier hands me an extra $20 back with my change. That expression applies when i find out that my neighbor disposes of his motor oil by pouring it in a hole in the ground.

That expression does not apply when we're talking about witnessing a child being raped. Especially if the perpetrator is someone you have a better-than-even chance of overcoming in a physical encounter. One does not "hope" to do the right thing in that situation. You either takes steps to stop the child rape (the one that's in progress at the moment) or you shoot yourself for being the weak, cowardly, miserable PoS that you are. McQueary was an adult at the time this happened -- not a confused child.

I realize that "accessory after the fact" does not apply here, but I would think there should be some criminal liability for witnessing a child rape and failing to notify law enforcement.

We're talking about child rape FFS. I understand some see it differently, and I most sincerely hope that none of us are ever in a position where we're faced with this choice.

Edit: not sure why I'm so fired up over this one. I guess some acts just appear particularly heinous.
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All I'm saying is that the emotional reaction you're having is exactly why I can understand someone freezing up, going into shock, or even having a "flight" response (the last, particularly if he had suffered abuse himself). Psychologically, I think this is bigger than choosing to get involved or not... it's shocking to the core.
 
leftybuff said:
I am hard pressed to be too critical of McQueary. He was low man on the totem pole, pretty young and clearly over his head with what he saw. I would like to think if I were him I would have intervened, or gone to the cops.
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Thats what I think. Blossoming coaching career, hired by the same guy who recruited you who was also considered a legend in his own right. Probably a bit of a father figure to him.

In reading a little more in depth it sounds like their were multiple meetings over several weeks between several high ranking officials. At least 3 people talked to McQueary that under Pennsylvania law were required to report the incident and did not. McQueary's own recount of what he saw varied..

McQueary testified he heard slapping sounds and saw Sandusky directly behind a boy whose hands were up on the wall in the men's shower room. McQueary was distraught, left the building, and subsequently called his father John McQueary, who told Mike to come over to his house right away and talk to him.[30]
While Mike McQueary was on the way to his father's, John McQueary called Dr. Jonathan Dranov, his boss and family friend, seeking his advice.[31] As President of Centre Medical and Surgical Associates, Dr. Dranov was a mandated reporter in the state of Pennsylvania. Dr. Dranov testified that he questioned Mike three times about what McQueary saw, and each time McQueary kept going back to what he heard.[32] Because there was no clear crime witnessed by McQueary, Dr. Dranov and John McQueary recommended McQueary talk to head football coach Joe Paterno.[33]

On Saturday morning, McQueary called Paterno to arrange a meeting, and the two met at Paterno's home later that same morning. McQueary testified he gave a rough report of what he had seen, but that out of respect, he did not share more intimate details.​

There appears to be widespread efforts with PSU to interfere or block investigations including this effort in 2005...

One child's mother reported the incident to Penn State police when he came home with his hair wet. After an investigation by Detective Ronald Shreffler, Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar chose not to prosecute. Shreffler testified before the grand jury that director of the campus police, Thomas Harmon, told him to drop the case. University police eavesdropped on conversations during which the mother confronted Sandusky about the incident. He admitted to showering with other boys and refused to discontinue the practice.​

I think McQueary was sufficiently suppressed by PSU until Aaron Fisher (Victim 1) found the right set of investigators outside of Centre County. It was after this account that police began finding multiple victims around the area. Pandora's box was now open. At least 3 dozens victims were discovered and Sandusky was found guilty on 45 of 48 charges.

I think we all agree that McQueary could have done more, could have intervened. And he'll never work as a coach against because of his hesitation. Clearly there was a widespread effort above him that allowed this to go on for years. Others had to have known and did nothing. PSU's attempt to cover up and sitting on their hands with a report in hand is quite damning.
 
There are two discussions going on about this:

The first is the question of McQueary's character, which is a legitimate discussion. Personally, I think it's unfair to be too hard on the guy. It's very easy to say that you would have beaten the **** out of Sandusky and carried him out to the waiting police. We've never been in that situation, and we don't know how we actually would react. He did what he thought was the right thing to do, and was failed by those who he thought were good people. Could he have done more? Maybe. But in the end, he did speak out, and he shouldn't be judged too harshly for his deeds.

The second question shouldn't be a question at all. He did speak out, and Penn State punished him for that. That flies in the face of whistleblower laws, and common decency, and he had every right to sue the institution. The judgement was fair, according to the facts, and the law. There should be no disagreement on this, because the facts are the facts, they're right there in black and white - Penn State's actions were against the law, McQueary had the right to sue, and the judgement was fair according to the facts.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
On Saturday morning, McQueary called Paterno to arrange a meeting, and the two met at Paterno's home later that same morning. McQueary testified he gave a rough report of what he had seen, but that out of respect, he did not share more intimate details.​
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I've always wondered if JoePa really comprehended the charges at this point against Sandusky. It was handed off to higher ups and investigated (supposedly). I just think back to a few of us trying to explain to my own Uncle about how his own son was a cross-dressing homosexual living with AIDS in NYC in the early 80's. My Uncle was a strict catholic Italian-American who really had trouble comprehending all of this. I'm not making excuses for JoePa. But I wonder if things would have been different if McQueary had been blunt about what was going on?
 
buffaholic said:
I've always wondered if JoePa really comprehended the charges at this point against Sandusky. It was handed off to higher ups and investigated (supposedly). I just think back to a few of us trying to explain to my own Uncle about how his own son was a cross-dressing homosexual living with AIDS in NYC in the early 80's. My Uncle was a strict catholic Italian-American who really had trouble comprehending all of this. I'm not making excuses for JoePa. But I wonder if things would have been different if McQueary had been blunt about what was going on?
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That sounds like not a fun conversation.
 
Buffnik said:
Plus the guys he was going against (Jerry & Joe) were coaches, mentors and father figures to him. He could have done more. He could have handled things better/differently. I'm sure he loses sleep over that. But in the midst of everyone and everything, relative to everyone else he was the white knight and very powerful people colluded to destroy him.
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Not sure about "white knight;" how about "gray knight?"
 
The fines and judgments are starting to accumulate.

NEW YORK, Nov 3 - Penn State University is facing a $2.4 million fine for mishandling child sexual abuse complaints against convicted former football coach Jerry Sandusky, the U.S. Department of Education said on Thursday.

The department said it is seeking to impose the penalty and issued a scathing 239-page report that capped a five-year investigation into how the school complied with a federal law, the Clery Act, requiring schools to report campus crimes and warn students of any danger.

The school violated the law when it failed to alert its students and employees that Sandusky was going to be criminally charged in 2011, according to the department. Sandusky was convicted of 45 counts of child abuse, and several Penn State officials face separate charges for not reporting Sandusky earlier to authorities.

Although the fine is the largest the Education Department has ever levied under the Clery Act, it is a fraction of the penalties imposed on Penn State because of the Sandusky scandal.
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L Buff said:
The fines and judgments are starting to accumulate.
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Everything helps in sending the message.

This one is much more significant than the $2.4 million. The fact that DOE leveled this kind of judgement also means that they have put Pedo State on notice.

If they fail to take appropriate action and they get any sort of additional violations, and not just against children, they risk losing eligibility for federal funds including student loans, Pell Grants, and a variety of other types of funding that channel through the US Dept of Education.

In this era take away theses funds and you you are looking at significant cuts in the number of students who will attend the school. The result would be huge program cuts.

The likelihood of it happening is fairly slim but the consequences are so serious that they would be fools to ignore them.
 
skibum said:
Something similar, if not worse, is going to be coming for **** bailer.

It will take several years, just like this one, but right about the time **** bailer thinks they may have put it behind them, wham the Dept of Ed will drop something like this on them.
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From your lips to a non-Southern Baptist God.
 
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