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College Football is not like Cooking

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by aeroxx, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. aeroxx

    aeroxx New Member

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    There is no recipe to follow to produce success:

    4 star recruits + Tradition-based Coaching (like a Michigan or Alabama coaching system)+ big stadium =/= top 20 football.

    Football, as an organized human activity, is a Complex Dynamic system. As such, process matters at least as much as inputs. The word "process" is being thrown around like new age dogma, but I am talking about concrete components of an organization.

    The system is complex and does not fit into a simple heuristic such as throwing money at the problem to hire a big name coach like Nick Saban. (In fact, Saban admitted the limitations of his power in his interview on 60 minutes). A great coach is a necessary but not sufficient part of the system. This system includes, but is not limited to practice, coaching, learning, and adapting to changing circumstances. It is not generalizable, but is unique to the circumstances and people involved. This is why it almost never works to try to import a past successful program to a new, unsuccessful context.

    Some of our coaches, like our fans, do not understand this distinction. They assume that winning football is only about one aspect of the system: if only we had 4 star recruits, or only if we had executed 100% effectively on the field, or if only we had a better stadium, etc.

    Coach Bienemy could not be any more wrong when he says, “the key to success is executing and imposing your will on your opponent.” This is only true if one is already better coached, better trained, utilizing a better strategy, and are athletic than one’s opponent. All of which might have been true in Bienemy’s playing days, but do not apply to the current circumstances.

    Therefore any assessment of Coach Embree has to examine the entire system. The conclusions are not promising, but neither are they indicative of impending failure, if significant changes are made in a number of facets of the program.

    Whether the football program is going to be successful turns on whether Coach Embree and the administration can evaluate themselves objectively and adapt to the current and upcoming demands.

    If CU is going to restore its tradition as a football powerhouse, then its support base (fans) need to think about the program as a complete system too. Otherwise, short-sighted demands such as firing everyone, or refusing to attend games, will undo some of the progress which has been made and will produce the very thing people don't want--a doormat football program.
     
  2. Buffalo Brad

    Buffalo Brad Club Member Club Member

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    Well we will agree to disagree. You neglect most of the facts that have been laid out and refuse to understand where reality lies. I think we will be stuck with Embo for another year but there is no way he coaches at CU after next season. There are not enough changes that can be made to instill confidence in the talent CU needs to draw to this program as long as Embree is in charge. He has not recruited well and the recruits he convinced earlier this year to committ are now jumping ship. Classes ranked in the 60s will not get it done and that is where we are headed now. If he is kept another year, the talent will only continue to decline as recruits look at a dead coach walking.

    You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but Jon is not a good coach and he and the whole staff are way under experienced and over their heads. The experiment has failed and now it is time to determine if CU wants to play big boy football or not. Right now, we do to qualify for big boy football.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  3. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

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    It's not simple, I agree (it's the first time I've agreed with you on anything, by the way). And leadership (or coaching) must always be evaluated in the broader context under which it operates.

    If you only needed highly ranked recruits, highly paid coaches, tremendous facilities and virtually unlimited fan support Texas would be a perennial top three team. But with those things, they tend to be a pretty good team, so I strongly suspect they contribute to success, even if they don't guarantee it.

    But what we're doing right now isn't working, agreed? It may or may not be isolated to the coaching staff. But we've got to start changing something, and that seems a likely place to start.

    What would you change? I'll probably support making that change too...
     
  4. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    Is that formula not working for some team. Hell look at Tennessee, the only thing they are missing is coaching and once they get that, they will be back in the top 25.

    Right now I'm just looking for top 50. Mediocre would be a huge improvement.
     
  5. aeroxx

    aeroxx New Member

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    I'm not ignoring any facts at all. I didn't say Embree was a good coach. But neither do I think a great coach would have more wins against the pac-12 this year. I think his recruiting has been a mixed bag, but in the aggregate has been a step up. If he had recruited a quality linebacker and a safety last year then I think his class would have been better than we could reasonably expect, given our record of past failure.

    You seem to be placing all the blame on Embree and i'm explaining the problems are more complicated and entrenched than that, irrespective of whether Embree is good or bad.
     
  6. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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  7. aeroxx

    aeroxx New Member

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    I think if we had the time to really talk things out, you would find that we actually agree on quite a bit. It is likely that we are starting from different assumptions.

    I don't know what to change. I don't know whether it is wise to keep Embree or not. A lot depends on whether Embree is willing to adapt and correct his past mistakes. I don't have enough information of the organization and the players to know. It is self-evident that the current system is a failure. It is obvious that Bienemy is not qualified to be an OC and Brown is not qualified to be a DC.
     
  8. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    Great leaders can inspire even those with mediocre talent to do occasionally great things. ****** leaders make everything worse.
     
  9. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Not like cooking. More like sex. You need to find someone to jump in bed with.
     
  10. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    CU's problem is like a stripper: throw a bunch of money at it, get drunk, and hope for a happy ending.
     
  11. Buffalo Brad

    Buffalo Brad Club Member Club Member

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    Well, one fact is that recruiting has not been better than previous years, even under Hawk. Hawk's classes dropped off when he started to fail after his third year. Prior to that, the classes are something we could only wish for now. This class is headed for mid 60's ranking as and we will be in that range next year with a lame duck coach everyone knows is going to be on the ropes to save his job. We are approaching a death spiral and the runway for improvement has run out. This does not even start to assess the poor coaching we have seen in all parts of the program. Too many facts pointing to an immediate need for a replacement or being set back to another 5 to 7 years of rebuilding.

    Is the Admin a problem, absolutely. But the first thing that can happen to change momentum is a coaching change with the hiring process bringing in a respectable coach with experience and recruiting ties to our geographical area. To get that coach, the Admin will be forced into spending some of the Pac money we are getting for facilities upgrades. It will be a requirement to get our next coach. Same a Buzz did with his hiring and basketball facilities. You perform in areas you put focus on and the coaching change is the first step to getting the correct focus.
     
  12. SJBuff

    SJBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I agre that we have many problems and fixing one won't make everything better. We are broke executively with Bensen and DiAssbag lacking vision and commitment. We are broke administratively with Bohn and the AD not providing vision and adequate support. We are broke legislatively by not being able to have more long term contracts that will help cu attract and retain top coaches. We are Broke academically with standards that alienate talent from coming to cu. we are broke with our facilities, trying to get by with dated and inadequate buildings and training facilities. We are broke talent wise, we lack the caliber and quantities of athletes needed to compete.

    But most of all we are broken when it comes to coaching. We have a staff that can't teach, can't game plan, can't game day coach or make adjustments, can't effectively recruit and can't inspire players when the get to cu. This staff has driven the life out of the team, they no longer believe they can win and have lost all hope. morale for the players and the program as a whole is at an unpresented low. Utter disaster.

    Yes, We have many leakes in the damn and we don't have the resources and will to fix them all, but the biggest leak, the one that threatens to let the whole damn wash away, is the coaching staff. This issue with the staff is urgent and needs to be addressed or there may not be much of a program left to save. Embree and Co need to go.
     
  13. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    A good coach can succeed in this environment. We haven't seen a good coach for a very long time, hence the atrophy.
     

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