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Colorado Kids

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Recruiting Central' started by Goose, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Starting a new post here so I don't take the Walton post off-topic fast.

    I STRONGLY disagree with this. STRONGLY. I like the Walton offer, I think it's legit, but I hate "taking a flier" on Colorado kids. That's how we end up with bench warmers. If there are legit Colorado prospects, great. But this isn't a "basketball state". If we're going to take a flier on someone, take a flier on a kid from a high quality league in CA or TX. Yeah, there's a chance we get an Eli, but there's a better chance we end up with an Andre Roberson.
     
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  2. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Let Wyoming and CSU take the in-state "fliers". I want the guys like Knutson, Jackson, Scott, Gordon, Dom, Perkins and Walton.
     
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  3. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I like the sentiment behind the "Colorado Offer" but in basketball it takes up too much space on the roster you be potentially looking at 4-5 kids on the roster.

    I do however think we should do it for football. I like the idea of offering Mr. Colorado Football or what ever its called every year.
     
  4. BuffNative

    BuffNative Club Member Club Member

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    I think the basketball talent in Colorado is underrated. The Denver metro area is growing by leaps and bounds and with it comes more local basketball competition and a bigger pool of possible talent.

    Look at some of the major contributors on our team this year from Colorado: Josh Scott, Wesley Gordon, Dom Collier. Even XT is having himself a good senior year and has proven he definitely belongs on a PAC-12 court. Next year I expect big things from Derrick White. This is a 17-5 team, where 50%+ of the production is coming from Colorado kids.

    It's not that I disagree with Goose's post. We shouldn't be taking fliers on Colorado kids. If there is a kid from Texas or California that is better than any Colorado kids and wants to come to CU, he should get the scholarship. My point is in the upcoming years we won't have to take "fliers" on local kids because there is a legitimate and growing amount of basketball talent in Colorado.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  5. dyemeduke

    dyemeduke Well-Known Member

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    ehh...I'm too stupid to figure out how to quote and lazy to keep trying harder...should be working anyway.... ...(no the button wasn't working, and that's the level of effort I'm willing to commit)

    So to respond to everyone. That's completely fair, but I think perhaps the prospect I believe should receive a flier needs to be defined. I think Walton and most recently Austin Conway fit my mold of fliers - guys that can play, but questions about them remain to be answered, whether it be health or size. Personally, I was hoping Tad would offer Conway...in spite of his height. I put Knutson in the same category - didn't think he was terribly impressive in HS, but give him a shot. These players are in my opinion, one or two tiers below Perkins, Davis, Collier, but giving the local CO HS some love every other year on a prospect that has a decent chance can't hurt. Talton too is in the same category (personally, I did NOT like offering Talton a scholarship, but I do defend him now...sometimes to the point of eating crow) - wasn't that amazing in HS, clearly a tier below Scott, and he has his shortcomings even now. Has having him on the team been truly detrimental? Even if you don't like the kid due to his faults on the court, having CO presence on the squad is good for HS politics (even if Sterling isn't the best example for when trying to build relationships with Denver and CS area coaches). I'm not saying offer that kid at Eaglecrest...forget his name...as the majority of our team will and should be from out of the state. Give the home state some love when a decent kid comes along, even if he may not be that great.

    And I'm also not saying take a CO flier every year, so I don't think having one Eli on the team really hurts the program. Most rotations are about 8 deep, and even after accounting for backups and your future guys, I think there's room for a flier.
     
  6. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    The only way you take a flier on any kid from any state is if you really believe in his potential, and you have room and time.

    And I'll never understand the Eli Stalzer offer. Didn't then, don't now.
     
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  7. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Maybe it was a Mater Dei relationship thing.
     
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  8. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I think he'd have walked on given the opportunity. Eli was never a financial hardship situation....
     
  9. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Eli was 100% due to XT's bad senior year. Tad got nervous and realized he needed some more help in the backcourt in case XT couldn't cut it. I think the connection to MD may have helped a little bit, but Tad knew he needed a PG from that class and hoped one of the two would step up.
     
  10. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Yeah, I remember thinking we need a PG to help right away and XT coming from Sterling High School would be no where close to ready as a true Frosh. But man, 4 years is a long commitment to handle the ball for a year!
     
  11. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I don't think anyone expected them both to struggle for so long. Plus, and I may be in the minority on this, but I think Eli was on a solid path until the KU game their freshman year. I think that game broke him. In the 8 games prior to that, Eli played 12 mpg, scored 2.5 points, grabbed a board and had some damn good ORtg numbers (5 of the 8 he put up over 113+). I'm not saying he would have been stupendous, but I think he could have been an ok rotation guy/8-10 mpg guy. The Phog claimed a victim that day.
     
  12. BIGEZ321

    BIGEZ321 Active Member

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    I wouldn't look at Walton as a "Flier". Out of all the other big men that Tad recruited this cycle (besides Davis), I think Tad pretty much knows what he's going to get from Walton. Mostly due to the fact Walton has ties with ex CU b-ball alum. Did CU want Davis or the Aussie big man, sure. But I think another big part of this is that Tad also wanted to see how Walton's knee would hold up before offering. If Walton stays healthy I'm pretty sure he won't be a bench warmer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  13. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    If we were the old CU program hoping for an NIT bid every few years and praying for a star to carry us to the first round of the NCAAs once a decade I could see "taking a flyer." We aren't that program any more and don't have room for guys we "hope" might turn out to be a PAC level player, we need to be taking guys who we are disappointed when they don't turn out.

    On the other hand there is a big difference between a flyer and a calculated risk.

    You can't teach height, especially height with athleticism. Big men tend to develop late. Walton is still young and coming off injuries and still shows things that a lot of big P5 recruits aren't athletic enough to do.

    Tad (and the medical staff) have to make a decision but this is a calculated risk that may be to good to pass up. If he doesn't turn out it is likely to be because of further injury to the knee. If that happens we get the scholly back as he takes the medical retirement.

    Ultimately Tad has to decide but if we are going to step above the talent we have been recruiting we may have to take some chances like this. Something way different that taking a flyer just because a kid is big and from Colorado.
     
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  14. patebuff

    patebuff Downgraded to half a star Club Member

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    Completely agree here. CU has no obligation in any sport to do this. Get the best player you can whether that is taking a flyer on a kid in Cali who plays great competition day in and day out.
     
  15. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. I believe signing Eli bridged the gap for XJ to have some comfort, that was a calculated move. By the way, Eli and XJ are the first Mater Dei players EVER, who played at a P5 level school, not to transfer out and finish their 4 year college career (assuming XJ stays to finish up). It is a running joke in Southern California (about MD players not sticking on campus) yet a testament to Tad and his ability to connect with the players.
     
  16. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Signing Eli paved the way for XJ? That's some fancy maneuvering right there. Great job Tad.





    https://rivals.n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/109516
    https://rivals.n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/138285
     
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  17. GoonieBuff

    GoonieBuff Not really Club Member

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  18. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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  19. hefdub

    hefdub Member

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    I remember when they signed Eli, and thinking "man, they should have taken a flyer on Josh Adams from Chaparral."
    I think if you take a flyer, you take it on athleticism or size.
     
  20. BuffG

    BuffG Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly who I was thinking of & if we're having this discussion, it should be because of Josh Adams---not Walton, Talton or whoever else.

    "Taking a flyer" is pretty ambiguous here. Roberson had offers from other high-major schools. We were lucky he chose us considering where we were at as a program.

    Mills, Stalzer, XT, Guz----those are your fliers. Not pretty. Lets all hope we're close to the era of having nothing but recruits with other high-major offers.
     
  21. gone native

    gone native Club Member Club Member

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    Writing off Guz a bit early don't you think?
     
  22. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Yes.

    And Mills had offers from Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Northwestern, Oregon State, Xavier, Boise State and numerous other "legit" schools. Roberson only had six listed offers - CU, Clemson, Penn State, Tulsa, UNLV and Wichita St. Not sure why one is us being lucky and the other is us taking a flier.
     
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  23. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    You know why.
     
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  24. BuffG

    BuffG Well-Known Member

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    You're right. I didn't remember Mills having a few high-major offers. IDK about "numerous other legit schools." Still doesn't take away from my point: a flier isn't a player with a handful of high-major offers.
     
  25. dyemeduke

    dyemeduke Well-Known Member

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    Awesome - nice to see so many people disagree with me in some fashion or another. Guess agree to disagree on this issue...even though I fly solo on this one...

    A few interesting follow-up discussions, but figure one leads to bashing CU players and recruits. So I ask this instead: Where do you see CU basketball in terms of recruitment? Some programs see a guy outside of the top 50 as fliers, and not being one of those programs, where are we? BuffG - you say that hopefully we're close to having recruits with only major offers. I'd agree, but going further, I say that we are. We should expect recruits to be in the top 150 (or close), and therefore, the fliers I refer to are the Waltons of this world. Our recruits should consistently be Scott, Fletcher, Collier, Hopkins, Miller, Peters, etc. We are not doormats anymore, and to not pick up the level of recruiting at the same pace as the court product, leaves us ultimately headed to stagnation or regression in my opinion. Of course, you don't hit on each one, but your Plan B should be of the same tier in my opinion. When you have to go to a Plan C...well, guess that brings us back to fliers/flyers/howeveryouwanttospellit where I'm being over-ruled.

    What do you expect your coaching staff to be recruiting? Not hope, or want, but expect?
     
  26. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    I think it is fair to say we have not capitalized, in terms of recruiting, on our success under Boyle as much as some of us may have hoped. It's certainly not easy in college basketball, but, on paper, I do worry that we are in danger of stagnation/regression as you mention.

    On the flip side, it does appear that Tad has done a nice job backfilling to address some of those recruiting holes (like Fortune and White).
     
  27. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I think CU should be recruiting guys around the Top 150 for most signees at this point. Every now and then we'll snag a Top 50 type player and every now and then the coaches will find someone unheralded they want to sign. But mostly 150 types (Fletch, Spencer, Gordon, Peters).
     
  28. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    100% this. High 3*'s need to be the rule.
     
  29. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    You can't take Jaron Hopkins types. Was he top 150?
     
  30. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    What? Everyone has misses. Jaron had the physical tools
     
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