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cronkhite moment.

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Liver, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    for you non-historically minded Buffs, walter cronkhite was the most respected television newscaster ever. before cable and all the rest, america trusted what cronkhite had to say every night on the news.

    he was known for his measured, thoughtful approach to the news. basically, if he opined on something, it was considered the gold standard of news analysis.

    in the vietnam war, when the north vietnamese basically lit up the entire us defensive position in the tet offensive, cronkhite broadcast that the vietnam war was, as of then, unwinnable. this was probably the final turning point in the complete erosion of public support for the war in the us.

    today, altho i am certainly no cronkhite, nor do i claim to be, i believe that i have just experienced my cronkhite moment with regard to hawkins and staff at CU.

    this loss to atm is pretty much the nail in the coffin. it will take virtually a miracle to get this team to a bowl game and we are now looking at THREE consecutive losing seasons, right in the face.

    it could still get turned around, but it is highly unlikely at this point. i want to believe we are revisiting the Coach Mac era in year 3 but it feels a lot more like the fairbanks regime.

    the team looks lost, unathletic, and completely unable to execute. the special teams continue to stink at a level never before seen at CU. the playcalling is pathetic. a sweep from the 2 yard line when you are actually successfully running between the tackles? follow that with a pass from a cold qb? absurd.

    yeah, we've been snakebit and i have no doubt that if more guys stay healthy and eligible, the season looks a lot different. but, sometimes you gotta make your own breaks. this staff is not getting it done. period.

    i will, as always, hope for the best. i think they are likely to beat isu at folsom so that just leaves them one upset from bowl eligible. it isn't totally impossible.

    the state of the program is beyond discouraging right now. we've become baylor. except, now, baylor is probably better than CU.

    when they write the epithet on the hawkins' era at CU, i strongly suspect the first line will be "his assistants did him in."
     
  2. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Give Hawk 2 more years...then I will jump on your bandwagon....
     
  3. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I am not real encouraged either. We have some talent and speed deficiencies, but we're poorly coached as well. We make the same mistakes every single week. We look undisciplined each week. We can't even execute basic plays. At what point do you look to the coaches to help correct some of these mistakes?

    It really comes down to this for me: can you name one area where the Buffs have actually improved as the season has gone on? I honestly cannot. Injuries and youth are not the only things holding us back right now.

    Hawk needs to take a long look right now at whether Helfrich and Riddle are long-term answers. If they are not (and I don't think they are), it needs to be done sooner rather than later. Priority #1 in the offseason has to be finding an identity on offense. We don't appear to have a good sense of what offense we would like to run, and that's a huge problem. Priority #2 is settling on a QB. No more rotation, pick a guy and go with him. When you're to the point of alternating guys in the middle of drives, there are major issues.
     
  4. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Yeah, that. This will work out--I'm confident. Christ, it hurts right now, though.
     
  5. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    1. It's called an epitaph. If they write an epithet on the Hawkins era it would probably be either "cracka" or "wasp"

    2. Regardless of his win/loss record when he eventually leaves the program, I can assure you his epitaph will read "he saved the program"
     
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  6. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    :lol::lol:
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Based on what?
     
  8. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    :lol:

    yes, thanks, malph. i am far more used to uttering epithets than epitaphs lately.

    ooh. spelling smack is so damned cool. when you have your friends over to your mom's basement to play dungeons and dragons do you cross reference their spelling against your limited edition monster manual?

    :smile2:
     
  9. Buffocrat

    Buffocrat Member

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    Dang,

    will y'all calm down!

    If you wanna really be angry get organized and put pressure on the administration to take the reigns off and let this program be competitive

    If y'all wanna get rid of helfrich we should put together a letter writting campain and flood the football department offices with massive amounts of mail saying so. But we have to show our displeasure somehow. If that doesn't work we flood every media outlets mail (klye ringo, woody, etc) until they start writing about it and make it public. Public pressure has to go through the roof

    Gotta start getting SEC about this!
     
  10. FChairbanks

    FChairbanks muthaka slayer Club Member

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    :yeahthat:

    this feels nothing like the fairbanks era to me, and it does feel a bit like mac's early years. mac had to rebuild nearly from scratch, and hawkins is facing similar challenges. in the meantime he and his staff are graduating an extremely high percentage of players and running a clean program.

    the current situation is vastly different from what we were facing under the fairbanks regime.

    i agree some changes need to be made. the playcalling today was baffling at times. but we need to practice some patience for a couple more years. by that time the gametime experience of the players will pay big dividends, or it will be time to make a change at the top.
     
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  11. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    You seriously believe that? :wow:
     
  12. BroncoBuff

    BroncoBuff New Member

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    "Saved the program"?! We won the Big XII North 3 of the 5 years before he was hired. I realize Barnett left the cupboard bare, but "saved the program" is too much.

    We're very much on the right track.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
  13. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    Any way to put CSU back on the schedule for a second chance?
    That just might put some butts in the stands.
     
  14. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    "And that's the way it is"
     
  15. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    Alright, "saved the program" is a bit of a stretch, but regardless of whether he loses all 12 games next year and gets booted or wins the Big XII 2 times in the next 5 years, the next coach to come to Colorado will be inheriting a program that is in very good shape on a fundamental level. Still underfunded, but vastly improved from a resources standpoint and almost infinitely improved on a public perception level from when Hawkins took over.

    A lot of the credit for that goes to Bohn, but there are few coaches in the country who could done the amount of good for CU in the past 2 and a half years that Hawkins has. It just hasn't translated to on the field success just yet... hopefully it will soon, but maybe it won't. Either way, he pulled the program out of the scrap heap and got it standing on its feet again. That's what I mean by "saving the program".
     
  16. TheRoyale90

    TheRoyale90 Member

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    Why wait? Jump on now and beat the holiday rush.
     
  17. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Because by waiting, the administration--and for what it matters the fanbase too--can more accurately determine the trajectory of this program. We all have our hunches, but haven't genuinely seen enough to guage where this staff will place CU's program in the long-term.

    Schools who can afford 4 Million dollar coaches additionally reserve the right to be impatient. CU doesn't have a choice--we've gotta be patient.

    Again, I feel confident that Coach Hawkin's tenure will work out well for CU.
     
  18. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    As I posted last week, I don't think there is a single team in the Big 12 that I would be confident of CU beating. Even lowly ISU looks better than us.

    You could make a case for CU being the worst team in the Big 12 - for the second time in Hawkins' three year tenure. :cool:
     
  19. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    CU beat KSU.
     
  20. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    Uh huh. And exactly how many of Iowa State's games have you watched this year?
     
  21. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, excuse me, it appears that my dissenting opinion must have offended you! I apologize!
     
  22. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    They are bad, so was ksu and a&m. We are 1-1 vs those two so hopefully we make it 2-1 with a win over the cyclones.

    Okie state ? forget about it.

    fuskers in lincoln?
     
  23. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    After you get past Mizzou and KU, the Big 12 North is pretty weak.
     
  24. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    I agree, and to be honest, KU isn't all that great.
     
  25. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    not so fast there my friend. WC may have been a guiding light for america (so to speak, if you will) at the time but, that does not mean he was right.

    well, he was right in the aspect (and its debatable i will grant) that Nam was unwinable.....the way it was being faught.

    hang with me here.....

    the VN war was faught on a limited basis. cities were off limits for bombing at times. harbors were off limits for mining because soviet ships would be going into them. among other limitations.

    sorry but, that is not how one fights a war. if you are in a war, you better be in it to win. that means hitting those cities. mining those harbors. its about destroying the will of your opponent.

    the US was not "winning" because of a lack of a political will to wage all out war.

    now. as i said, this opinion is very debatable. i will say that there is not a short list of vets who feel this way.

    as im sure is the case on the other side.

    IMO, wc was right/wrong. right in the way the war was being faught. wrong in the capabilities of the US if given full reign.

    thanks for hanging with me....

    here is where the WC analagy does not mesh, imo. CU is not fighting with one hand tied behind thier back. CU is severly limited. not due to an over abundance of resources that are not being used. rather, the resources are relativily limited at this point in time. its not like CU has USC's roster and is asking the 2 deep to take a knee for the week.

    lets all be honest here for a minute. if MTM, Miller.....shoot, i forget the rest, were all healthy/eligible and playing, would this ball club be where it is now?

    honestly?

    me thinks not. tet was a battle within a war. i have watched tons of documentaries, watched and read first hand accounts of US soldiers who were involved in the TA. i have yet to hear one say that Charlie won that battle. quite the opposite. they got thier asses kicked. however, it was the perception in the states, voiced by WC, that gave the impression that is was a loss. because of perception.

    so many years spent. so many lives lost. no real progress. now, the tet offensive. no es bueno.

    hawkins war is not lost. put me in the camp of the "give the man 5 years."

    sorry. that is where i stand. or sit. whatever.... :lol:

    im as frustrated at this team as anyone. i want the best for these kids who wear the black and gold. i want to watch a winning program. badly!!!! especially living in SEC country.

    where i sit, im not going to throw in the towel after 2 and 1/2 years of a coach. not given the injuries the team has experienced. not given the youth of this program. not given the promise this program, once healthy, once experinced has to offer.

    this year is tough. but, i can see a silver lining. lots of experience being made in the not too distant two deep. this year is going to pay off. wheter we like it or not. that is MO.

    however, i will do as i did in one of the GB years where the VO D was terrible and the ST sucked.

    here is what i want Hawk to do. there has to be a fix to the ST. a new coach is a must. its a too important part of the game. whatever part of practice you are putting toward it, its not good enough. either from a time and or coaching stand point.

    the OC gets one more year. better start to see some results next year with a (hopefully) healthy OL. more experience at dang near every position. depth. ect.

    the DC. given the overall play (with the exception of the MU and 3rd qtr of the aTM game) this season of the D, i will let the last 2 years speak for its self. the D, given the O's limited fire, has done a hell of a job. overall.

    lets face it. the Buffs have a long way to go.

    they also had a long way to go when hawk got hired. i think the road has been shortened by quite a bit.

    i dont know the answer. i hope i am right.

    now, MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!!! lets not let this become a VN war debate. that was not my intention and im sure it was not livers.

    we used them as examples......analgies....if you will, to make a point. nothing more. nothing less.

    notice, not one of us mentioned a single policicians name. nor party. nor general party philisophy. please, please..... just understand. it was not a VN argument. please.

    as i said. all of my points are very debatable. i understand that there is another view to what i posted.

    lord, where is a lawyer when i need one? :lol:

    :huh:
     
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  26. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member

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    This year has been discouraging, but we are one year removed from beating OU and Texas Tech. Tech looks like a pretty good team tonight.

    This year has been frustrating as hell, but I don't think the team's record is a sign of regression. Looking at all the factors - the lack of juniors and seniors, the redshirts, the injuries - this was bound to happen. I think we will be a very different team in 2009 and 2010.
     
  27. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    After we are all done feeling sorry for ourselves, let's reflect on some other college programs that are not playing up to expectations (or, to their lofty pasts...) -

    Tennessee 3-6
    Washington 0-8
    Michigan 2-7
    Wisconsin 4-5
    UCLA 3-5
    Auburn 4-5
     
  28. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    A-****ing-men!!!!
     
  29. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Can we sell that to this year's recruits?
     
  30. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    yes.
     

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