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CSU our "Chief Rival"???
- Thread starter buff190
- Start date
With the state of the program right now, we should probably be taking every team we play seriously, which CSU will be every year for a long time. I really don't care which stats you decide are relevant, the bottom line is they did get better this year and are bowling.
MacII can't afford to have your attitude. Losing to CSU is not easily forgiven in Buff country.
Bowl eligibility depends on them winning at AFA this week. They should win that, but just pointing out they're not bowl eligible yet.
When I thought new lows had been hit. The Lambs? Really???
Didn't know they were playing 13 games.
And they can pound their chests all they want, but a 7-6 CSU team from the MWC will not necessarily be in a bowl despite being bowl eligible. There are 6 bowl slots for the MWC - I know - shocked me, too. Right now, CSU would be 6th if they win, but I am not sure that if either SJSU or Wyoming finish at 6-6 that they are automatically passed over for CSU - I believe the bowl gets to pick.
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That would be so special. I might even check out the Rammie board if that happens. Still pulling for AFA though.
If that were to happen the sheep fans would somehow figure out a way to blame CU for it happening.
Given CSU's poor record of traveling to bowl games this outcome is very possible. Wyoming doesn't draw tremendously well for home games but they do surprisingly well travelling for a mid-major in a low population state.
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If they are, it's a temporary condition.
Yup
Swish
Half a bubble off
Maybe someone could help with this, do I remember correctly that when coach McCartney took over he verbally targeted the Hucksters as our rival? If that is right, lo and behold what it eventually turned into.
I'd like to see our current Mac do something like that. I'd go for Stanford, Zona or UCLA. The latter two would be a convenient target for the Bball team as well. Set a target and let the kids aim for it. I'd rather see the Lammies as a second tier rival like the Huskies|Cougars, Ducks|Beavers kind of rivalry. Little brother that is sometimes a threat for an upset rivalry.
I'd like to see our current Mac do something like that. I'd go for Stanford, Zona or UCLA. The latter two would be a convenient target for the Bball team as well. Set a target and let the kids aim for it. I'd rather see the Lammies as a second tier rival like the Huskies|Cougars, Ducks|Beavers kind of rivalry. Little brother that is sometimes a threat for an upset rivalry.
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
I think CSU is CU's #1 rival and will be so for a long time. If CSU joins the Big 12 as some Ram fans are dreaming including their AD, there's no way CSU will ever relinquish that spot as CU's main rival. Get used to it...Herbie ain't coming back to us.
What's holding back college sports in Colorado is CSU's conference affilation.
What's holding back college sports in Colorado is CSU's conference affilation.
I think it's perfectly OK to not have a designated, historic rival. I have been much happier not playing the nubs the last couple years. With as crappy as we've been, getting our asses kicked by the children of the corn would have made me want to find something else to occupy myself on Saturdays.
Not just Fresno. They also missed Sandy Eggo State (who took Fresno to OT) and UNLV (also bowl eligible).
If they get bowl eligible, it will mean they won the these games:
Cal Poly
UTEP
@ Wyoming
@Hawaii
Nevada
@New Mexico
Air Force
I'm pretty sure CU would also be going bowling with that schedule. HawkElwain is looking better than he did early in the season, but as far as saying they're ahead of CU, I wouldn't jump the gun. I see pretty much zero chance they end up with more than 4 wins against CU's schedule, and I think CU ends up bowl eligible against theirs. We just have so much farther to go because we need to get competitive in a much tougher conference.
EDIT: And I just saw this has all been covered already. Never mind.
There aren't many negatives to the Big 12 blowing up and our move to the PAC, but this is one of them. We have no history with any of these teams. It's forcing CSU into a rival role, when in reality most CU fans would prefer the series end.
Personally I have not yet reached the point where I even care to watch other PAC football games, but that could be due to the fact I know we're not going to beat any of them anyway.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Personally I have not yet reached the point where I even care to watch other PAC football games, but that could be due to the fact I know we're not going to beat any of them anyway.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Swish
Half a bubble off
http://www.cuatthegame.com/1982/7-n...a-rival-meeting-cu-head-coach-bill-mccartney/
Courtesy of Stuart and what I think would be good for the program. Let this game be our bowl until we actually start getting to bowl games again. Having the Lammies as our rival is a step down from the direction we want to go. Shoot for the moon.
Courtesy of Stuart and what I think would be good for the program. Let this game be our bowl until we actually start getting to bowl games again. Having the Lammies as our rival is a step down from the direction we want to go. Shoot for the moon.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I agree with you. We have never had a win over CSU that has gotten me super excited (except maybe sticking Macus Houston at the Goal line). To me it is not a CU rivalry. You become who you aspire to be...I find out today that we aspire to be CSU.
the year after the Van Pelt head spike was good. 2003 I think. Same game Houston threw some punches and didn't get flagged.
That's a pretty narrow definition of a rivalry. Notre Dame and Navy have a rivalry, for example. It's just a different type of rivalry than their one with USC, which is a rivalry of equals.
By your definition, rivalries would all be one-sided because a better program would never lower itself to acknowledging it as a rivalry when a target is put on its back.
CSU is an in-state rivalry. Much like West Virginia vs. Marshall.
We need Utah to come up to rivalry status given the structure of the Pac-12 and timing of our annual game.
We also need one to develop with UCLA, which doesn't really have a rival outside its own state and matches us historically in terms of football prestige. Plus, that's one that can carry over to basketball like Nebraska never did.
My bad. I apologize. I'm just so freakin sick of losing that snapped when I saw us on a list of CSU victories.
:lol2:
If CSU's conference affiliation is what is holding back college football in Colorado then we are screwed because the idea that CSU is going to be invited into a major conference with large payouts is beyond ridiculous.
The Big 12, the PAC, or any other BCS level conference is not interested in a school with virtually no tradition, lousy attendance, terrible TV ratings, a bottom end budget even for a mid-major, and a handfull of other reasons.
CSU fans (the few that really are) can dream of moving up in conference affiliation but it is nothing more than a dream.
Great discussion. One of my favorite beer-drinking-while-talking-sports topics, actually. Here's an outsider's take:
Why CSU is CU's top rival today. The two schools have comparable recruiting areas, athletic budgets (closer than CU and Oregon), academic standards (don't flame me for that -- CU and CSU are closer than CU and Utah in at least one ranking) and alumni bases with common backgrounds. The two schools have played more times than either has played anyone else. Most important, IMO, to the whole "rivalry thing" is the recruiting -- bottom line is that CU and CSU are fighting for the in-state talent and to those kids, the annual game is important. Quotes from players at both schools seems to indicate they see it as the big rivalry (in my book, the players' opinions count more than fans).
Arguments why CSU might not be considered CU's top rival. Games between the schools haven't mattered significantly as long as I've been following college football. To my knowledge, the Rocky Mountain Showdown has never been for a conference championship, or for a trip to a bowl, or anybody's "National Championship". CU has dominated the series historically, so it's at best a RINO (Rivalry In Name Only). Playing the game in the first week of the year at a neutral site full of empty seats doesn't help -- part of the fun of rivalries is beating your rival at their house and spoiling the day for all the recruits they invited to the game. To be a rival, one could argue that being in the same conference is a requirement.
My Conclusion: CU's chief rival in athletics is the Denver Broncos. Sorry, but the three months I've been in the area has done little to refute the stereotype that Coloradans are "pro-sports" fans, not college fans. CU grads seem to get more pumped up for an early season non-divisional Bronco's game than a Pac-12 CU game. Except for maybe within Boulder city limits, I see more licensed merchandise for Broncos/Rockies/Nuggets/Avs than CU by almost 2:1 (no hard numbers, just casual observation). Small data set, but I work with a number of CU and CSU grads -- none of them care about college sports one-tenth as much as they care about the pros. To each his own: if people would rather spend $125/ticket to watch a bunch of millionaires play each other instead of supporting student-athletes from their alma matter, God bless them. I also note the number of comments on the hoops board about poor attendance being blamed on concurrent Broncos games (many comments seemed to imply that fans were choosing to watch the Broncos on TV rather than the Buffs in person -- there is no help for that guy). In an office of 70 people, there's only one other dude that follows CU athletics (and he's not alumni either) -- I don't like it, but my work productivity has increased with the lack of interesting sports conversation at the water cooler.
Not that most of you care, but this subject comes up with Virginia Tech as well. Popular belief, supported by a contingent of VT fans, is that UVA is our top rival. However, there are sizable number of Hokie alums who see Miami in that role, particularly those from my era, who remember VT and Miami playing for Big East championships, playing for a slot in the BCS title game, playing for a top 5 ranking and eventually coming to the ACC with us and continuing play for high stakes. Until we joined the ACC in 2004, the game against UVA rarely had anything significant at stake (multiple years I recall reading analysis around Thanksgiving that VT's bowl destination was more defendant on some intra-Big East game the same weekend than the VT/UVA game itself). More so, the VT/UVA game has traditionally been played the Saturday after Thanksgiving, while most students are out of town and only the die-hard student football fans would plan their fall breaks around the game -- I know that's the 'traditional' day for rivalry games but I don't necessarily agree its a good date for student-fans.
Edit: realized in the academic ranking link, Utah and CSU are tied, so their the same "distance" from CU by that measure. CSU is listed higher on the page and I didn't look closely enough.
Why CSU is CU's top rival today. The two schools have comparable recruiting areas, athletic budgets (closer than CU and Oregon), academic standards (don't flame me for that -- CU and CSU are closer than CU and Utah in at least one ranking) and alumni bases with common backgrounds. The two schools have played more times than either has played anyone else. Most important, IMO, to the whole "rivalry thing" is the recruiting -- bottom line is that CU and CSU are fighting for the in-state talent and to those kids, the annual game is important. Quotes from players at both schools seems to indicate they see it as the big rivalry (in my book, the players' opinions count more than fans).
Arguments why CSU might not be considered CU's top rival. Games between the schools haven't mattered significantly as long as I've been following college football. To my knowledge, the Rocky Mountain Showdown has never been for a conference championship, or for a trip to a bowl, or anybody's "National Championship". CU has dominated the series historically, so it's at best a RINO (Rivalry In Name Only). Playing the game in the first week of the year at a neutral site full of empty seats doesn't help -- part of the fun of rivalries is beating your rival at their house and spoiling the day for all the recruits they invited to the game. To be a rival, one could argue that being in the same conference is a requirement.
My Conclusion: CU's chief rival in athletics is the Denver Broncos. Sorry, but the three months I've been in the area has done little to refute the stereotype that Coloradans are "pro-sports" fans, not college fans. CU grads seem to get more pumped up for an early season non-divisional Bronco's game than a Pac-12 CU game. Except for maybe within Boulder city limits, I see more licensed merchandise for Broncos/Rockies/Nuggets/Avs than CU by almost 2:1 (no hard numbers, just casual observation). Small data set, but I work with a number of CU and CSU grads -- none of them care about college sports one-tenth as much as they care about the pros. To each his own: if people would rather spend $125/ticket to watch a bunch of millionaires play each other instead of supporting student-athletes from their alma matter, God bless them. I also note the number of comments on the hoops board about poor attendance being blamed on concurrent Broncos games (many comments seemed to imply that fans were choosing to watch the Broncos on TV rather than the Buffs in person -- there is no help for that guy). In an office of 70 people, there's only one other dude that follows CU athletics (and he's not alumni either) -- I don't like it, but my work productivity has increased with the lack of interesting sports conversation at the water cooler.
Not that most of you care, but this subject comes up with Virginia Tech as well. Popular belief, supported by a contingent of VT fans, is that UVA is our top rival. However, there are sizable number of Hokie alums who see Miami in that role, particularly those from my era, who remember VT and Miami playing for Big East championships, playing for a slot in the BCS title game, playing for a top 5 ranking and eventually coming to the ACC with us and continuing play for high stakes. Until we joined the ACC in 2004, the game against UVA rarely had anything significant at stake (multiple years I recall reading analysis around Thanksgiving that VT's bowl destination was more defendant on some intra-Big East game the same weekend than the VT/UVA game itself). More so, the VT/UVA game has traditionally been played the Saturday after Thanksgiving, while most students are out of town and only the die-hard student football fans would plan their fall breaks around the game -- I know that's the 'traditional' day for rivalry games but I don't necessarily agree its a good date for student-fans.
Edit: realized in the academic ranking link, Utah and CSU are tied, so their the same "distance" from CU by that measure. CSU is listed higher on the page and I didn't look closely enough.
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hokie, you might want to do a little research before you start talking about comparable budgets. CU's football budget which is paid for entirely out of revenues is bigger than CSU's entire athletic budget. CSU subsidises football to the tune of about $15 million a year and are still at or near the bottom of the MWC for both football and overall athletic budget. They have moved up some since hiring Jack Graham but are still close to the bottom. CU on the other hand has tradionally been in the top 50 in revenues and when we were winning were in the top 30. The money situation isn't even comparable.
They draw under 20,000 per home game, CU coming off the worse season and stretch of seasons in our history average about double that even with average seat revenues that are also more than double.
The alumni bases are also very different. CU and CSU have very little overlap in backgrounds of alumni and in non-alumni supporters. CSU is seen as the ag school, the school that is in touch with the rural parts of the state, with the "common man." CU is seen as the elitist school, the school that does law, medicine, aerospace, etc.
The problem for CU right now is that with the break up of the B12 we lost our yearly hate match with the Corn and so far have not replaced it with anything close in the PAC
You are right about the dominance of pro sports, especially the Broncos, this is a Broncos state.
Hopefully the Buffs will be able to get their acts together fairly soon and you will get some experience with what Colorado is like when the Buffs are worth paying attention to. For CSU this is about as good as it gets. They had a short stretch under Sonny Lubick when they had some appearances in the top 25 but even then had a hard time selling 30k tickets.
They draw under 20,000 per home game, CU coming off the worse season and stretch of seasons in our history average about double that even with average seat revenues that are also more than double.
The alumni bases are also very different. CU and CSU have very little overlap in backgrounds of alumni and in non-alumni supporters. CSU is seen as the ag school, the school that is in touch with the rural parts of the state, with the "common man." CU is seen as the elitist school, the school that does law, medicine, aerospace, etc.
The problem for CU right now is that with the break up of the B12 we lost our yearly hate match with the Corn and so far have not replaced it with anything close in the PAC
You are right about the dominance of pro sports, especially the Broncos, this is a Broncos state.
Hopefully the Buffs will be able to get their acts together fairly soon and you will get some experience with what Colorado is like when the Buffs are worth paying attention to. For CSU this is about as good as it gets. They had a short stretch under Sonny Lubick when they had some appearances in the top 25 but even then had a hard time selling 30k tickets.
On paper CSU and Utah are our rivals. But we don't need to like it, and if we want to act like we are better than those rivals than we should act and play like it.
Right now we suck and there is no way around that so the solution is we don't say anything at all (I'm looking at you, Coach!) When someone says, "CSU and CU is totally a rivalry," you shrug. When they say, "Utah is a natural rival for so many reasons," just say, "good for them." In a few years we can hopefully upset some teams, get in some fights, and begin writing the story of a real rivalry against a legitimate program in the PAC-12 South.
Right now we suck and there is no way around that so the solution is we don't say anything at all (I'm looking at you, Coach!) When someone says, "CSU and CU is totally a rivalry," you shrug. When they say, "Utah is a natural rival for so many reasons," just say, "good for them." In a few years we can hopefully upset some teams, get in some fights, and begin writing the story of a real rivalry against a legitimate program in the PAC-12 South.
Marcus getting stuffed was a big one but the biggest one to me was 2001, first game at Invesco because they were going for 3 straight against us which would've been nothing short of hell on earth. CSU was talking big as in running the table before that one but we came out and won big, 42-14.