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CU Facilities a Problem in Recruiting

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    For the first time in four years, Colorado will not sign the state's top player. Four-star DE Chris Martin, originally committed to Notre Dame, is now pledged to Cal. Moreover, the Buffaloes currently have just two commitments from in-state prospects.

    Could this become a long-term problem? The signs say yes. One high school coach pointed to facilities as the main reason that CU is losing these recruiting battles, something that could take years to address. "These kids, their heads spin when they go to these places because of their facilities versus what we've got in our backyard in Boulder," the coach, who requested anonymity, told Kyle Ringo of the Daily Camera. "It really bothers me as a Colorado high school football coach. It's ridiculous. It's not even a fair playing ground."

    ESPN

    The piece also mentioned on-field struggles and Hawkins' job security as the other main issues, but focused on facilities.

    Honestly, I don't think most CU fans realize how behind we are in football facilities (basketball facilities are such a joke they're hardly worth mentioning). We desperately need the Million Dollar Booster Club to become a reality, because we simply can't consistently compete for top talent with our facilities. That also goes for attracting coaches, btw. Not a lot of guys lining up for a low-end salary at a place with mediocre in-state recruiting talent, 1-year assistant coach contracts at low pay, a high cost of living, difficult admissions standards for athletes... and poor facilities.
     
  2. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    I'm sure the AD & the rest of the powers in charge hear this as a reoccuring theme. And sometimes I doubt if they really care. At some point they have to cave in and get it done. And if they do spring for all the badly needed new facilities, will it be too little too late?
     
  3. 2HellNback

    2HellNback Well-Known Member

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    In basketball, yes. But, Dal Ward is completely re-done.

    Show me one recruit who didn't choose CU because of facilities?

    It's easy to make that excuse, but the facilities are not out of the Rocky films like many like to claim (within the football program). Every update on scout and rivals, prospects comment on the facilities, locker room, weight room, etc... When the last donation was given, Squawkins chose to use it to update the visual and sound equipment in the meeting rooms... FACT.

    Don't comment on something you clearly do not know. You're a dumbass.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Dal Ward was re-done in 2007. It's very nice. We also practice in a temporary bubble when the weather's bad, don't have the athletic dorms that are more like luxury townhomes which you see at other schools, etc., etc.

    Do you know what you're talking about?
     
  5. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    You can blame all kinds of things for kids going to other schools. The fact is that other schools haven't miraculously gotten all the facilities in the past couple of years since we pulled in guys like Miller, Katoa, Scott, MTM, Mohler, Kasa, Major, etc.

    What has changed is that in those years? Hawk has gone from being the up and comer who was going to turn his success at Boise into Big XII success. When he was hired at CU he was the hot coaching prospect who if not hired at CU would have had another BCS job soon. He could point to his winning record at Boise, the fact that they beat some BCS teams when he was there and beat OU the year after he left with what was arguably his team.

    Now he is coming off two straight 3-9 seasons and has not been over .500 at CU. He has embarassing losses to CSU, Toledo, Montan State, Iowa State (twice in a row) and almost a couple more with teams like Eastern Washington. The trend is not good. He has failed to produce any players who are seen as stars and major pro prospects and no longer has the positive attention of the media. It can easily be argued that if not for a purely political decision he would have been fired at the end of last year and is virtually a dead man walking this season needing to win big with a team that plays one of the nations toughest schedules and hasn't shown any signs of being ready to jump up and change the direction of things on the field.

    Recruits look at the chance to win, chance to develop into NFL players, and the likelyhood of having the same coaches for a good part of their college careers. With all of that it is a seriously hard sell this year. I have never had a problem with Hawk's recruiting at CU and considering everything going on this year looks to be better than he has a right to expect and while not spectacular may provide at least a decent bridge to the next coaches teams.
     
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  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    To clarify, I don't want to make it sound like I think our facilities are the primary reason for recruiting struggles. I disagree with that anonymous HS coach's opinion from that standpoint. But I do agree that CU pales in comparison to what recruits see when they visit other programs. Facilities are hurting our recruiting. It's something that we've always been able to overcome because of the other things CU has to offer, but the landscape of college football has changed. Programs less prestigious than CU have nicer facilities than we do.

    Iowa State

    That's one example and I didn't even show their academic support center. But if you go to team web sites, you'll see what I'm talking about. CU facilities are just not that good.
     
  7. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    thats a nice practice facility
     
  8. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    I do agree with you that CU does need to make some significant improvements in facilities to be completely competitive. Practice facilities, academic resources, etc. can make a difference but when it comes down to it the Iowa States of the world will never have the Flatirons, the mall, the flagstone campus, the view coming in on the turnpike.

    What recruits want more than facilities is to win, to be on TV, to have a dream of playing in the NFL, the have a great experience with a bunch of great teammates. When it comes down to deciding between to schools that give the recruit these things then facilities can be a deciding factor. Right now we could have the best facilities in the conference and players would still look at two 3-9s and a lame duck coach and many would look for other offers.
     
  9. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Actually, it's not.

    Check out what Connecticut has:

    Football Complex (you have to open the link at the top of the article for "Facility Tour")

    Training Center (you have to open the link in the middle of the article for "Training Center Gallery")

    :wow:
     
  10. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    You are correct. Similarly, if we were winning and churning out 1st rounders like we used to, our subpar facilities would not be a factor. The facility angle is not the reason our recruiting is ranked 71st in the nation......Iowa State could pour $100M into their facilities and they would still be Iowa State....
     
  11. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    Well, let say we dont get the $50 big ones to help out with facilities? What should CU do? Where will we stand in the Big XII?
     
  12. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Don't use the dough for facilities....use it to buy out Danny and bring in a top coach. Without the dough and the Admin supporting the athletic program, let's pack it in and move to the WAC.
     
  13. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    Facilities aren't the major problem, but they are certainly a problem and they aren't helping us at all.
     
  14. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Big money people like to be associated with winners. Get a coach in here who will put a winning product on the field, bring some of the money guys along to the bowl games, offer to put their names on a big plaque in the front entrances, and you will get your facilities.

    A lot of these guys are hyper-competitive. They love nothing more than rubbing in their association with a winning college football team. Lose and they end up getting their noses rubbed in it and they don't like is so they distance themselves.

    Get somebody in here who can win 7-9 games a year including 1-2 that he wasn't supposed for a couple of years and money for facilities gets a lot easier to find. Then with momentum and dirt being turned we can take the next step in recruits.
     
  15. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    You can build a winner without the facilities. That's an arms war and if CU get's good again, some donors will step up so they can feel part of the success and build some monuments.

    Boulder kicks butt on a lot of college towns, and is a great equalizer. The other issues are the REAL issue (now). Now meaning post scandal and post Betsy. CU just has to start to win some games.
     
  16. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    Massillon High School has a nice $6M indoor practice facility for their football team.

    This is in Ohio. Some places are pretty passionate about football.
     
  17. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    I am so tired of people trying to convince me the CU situation is acceptable by using all of these excuses. Go ask Alfred Williams what the facilities were like when he came to CU and he was the top recruit out of Texas. Like Mtnbuff said - 2 years ago we went head to head with UT and beat out them out for D. Scott.

    CU AD and fans have to quit making excuses and worrying about their limitations. Instead promote what you do have.
     
  18. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I don't want to see Hawkins or Bohn publicly using this as an excuse either. Our facilities in no way excuse our won-loss record the past several years.

    But that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that better facilities would help us on the recruiting trail, help us prepare better for games, help us with keeping guys eligible, etc. Specific to recruiting, if we had great facilities it would insulate us a bit from the impact of a bad season and heighten our success after a good season. It's important that we upgrade in this area.
     
  19. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    Buffnik - I call BS on this....you could have the greatest facilities in the World and that alone does not get you recruits. Coach Mac will tell you that your players are the ones who convince other players to come to your school -that is the single biggest factor. Gives you something to think about. CU just upgraded their facilities and although they are not UT like they are not chopped liver either.
     
  20. BuffMania

    BuffMania Banned BANNED

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    CU Coaches a much bigger problem in recruiting.
     
  21. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Explain to me why schools spend money on facilities.

    I haven't argued that facilities alone get you recruits.* I've argued that they help and that CU is at a disadvantage in this department. I'm actually surprised that this is getting resistance.

    You can't rely on having once-in-a-lifetime leaders for your program like Coach Mac. Besides, even Mac understood the importance of facilities and pushed hard for upgrades.

    (*I could make an argument, actually, that facilities alone can get you recruits. But situations like Oregon and Oklahoma State are outliers so I don't think they're relevant to CU. I just want to be on par with or a little better than the Iowa States, Indianas and Connecticuts of the world.)
     
  22. coereg

    coereg New Member

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    I'm not sure what people want for facilities.

    I mean CU has a nice practice facility w/the indoor bubble when needed. You've then got the DW center with what has been regarded as a very nice weight facility through the years (you could maybe upgrade that some), brand new locker rooms, lounges, and coaching offices. The stadium is in good shape, and you've got the addition of the upper level NOW, with suites, etc.

    I feel that in terms of facility upgrades, much more emphasis should be put on upgrading the Events Center than anything else. That place needs to get "state-of-the-art" more than any other complex on the campus, hands down.
     
  23. coereg

    coereg New Member

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    The football team will be fine. It's all about wins, coaching stability, and tradition (which CU has). Facilities plays somewhat of a roll into it but it's not everything.

    **-Take LSU for example (where I went to College). Trust me, LSU has sub-par practice, weightlifting, coaching offices, and locker-room facilities, extremely outdated all-around (from Pete Maravich Center to Tiger Stadium). Yet that never comes up, never, because they win and have always had solid tradition and fan following.

    Trust me, there would be a few high level recruits coming to Boulder next year had there not been all of the media and fan hub-bub about the program and coach Hawk, and just how bad everything is going to be unless there is an immediate coaching change. Although it was all understandable, players see all the negativity and you wonder why they run away so fast.
     
  24. coereg

    coereg New Member

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    It wouldn't suprise me one bit if next years team, amongst all of the chaos, just suddenly pulled a good season out of their butts.

    **(personal note:) I am, however, a little disappointed that the coaching staff has still not been able to grab more than 3 DT's (Goree, Cunningham, & Bonsu). You've got to stockpile this position, much like OL. It's one position where a lot of the upper-tier Big-12 teams always seem to have good players. That's one of several areas where CU is lacking overall talent and depth. Wow!
     
  25. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    While I would like "great" recruiting classes as a sign of hope and restocking the talent pool, it all comes down to winning.

    I felt that we should have won more games with the talent we have had since Hawkins got here.

    Even if we had top-ranked talent on the team when he got here and every year since then, I still have my doubts that Hawkins and Co. would have delivered what they promised and we expected.

    The "state of the program" is really more of a reflection on Hawkins inability to adapt a successful strategy on the field. While it would be nice to have all the facilities, etc. to compete I don't think it is a factor that outweighs the success of the coach. Having great facilities, campus/community support, etc can all magnify the success of a coach, but it also magnifies the disappointment of an unsuccessful coach.

    We can win with average recruits, average facilities and a good coach.

    We cannot win with good recruits and facilities and a bad coach.

    Currently we have good recruits (those on the team, not just the 2010 class), average facilities, and a bad coach. There is one part of the equation that is easier to fix than the rest. Either Dan learns REAL FAST how to be a good coach in the Big 12, or we move on to someone else. I refuse to believe that good coaches will only come to CU if we have good facilities. Yes it makes their job easier and increases the chance of success in developing players and luring recruits, but it is not mandatory.
     
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  26. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Exactly on point and correct!
     
  27. GoBuffs08

    GoBuffs08 Well-Known Member

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    Rep.
     
  28. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    our facilities need some work, but it isn't the primary problem for the football program. usc's football facilities aren't all that great and they manage to recruit just fine.

    CU has many, many advantages that other schools simply cannot match. the campus is spectacular. the town of boulder is unique. the outdoor lifestyle is unmatched. the academics, while not in the very top tier, are excellent for a public school and stack up extremely well in conference.

    the problem is WINNING. CU has always recruited its fair share of elite athletes (well, except for right after the gb mess and now). even before Mac got it turned around, CU got its share of bluechips. yes, the landscape has changed a lot, but the bottom line is that you need demonstrable success or a reasonable prospect of better days ahead before you'll be able to draw a bunch of elite guys in.

    hell, before carroll was at usc, there were some alums there that believed they would never be able to be competitive again. south central isn't exactly an alluring backdrop for success. and their facilities weren't that great either. and, they were upgrading their academic requirements too. but, in came one good coach with a vision and he completely reinvented that program.

    when Coach Mac came to boulder, the indoor facility was balch fieldhouse. it was dark, dank, leaky, unsafe in spots, and nasty. but, he had a vision and a plan.

    facilities are a red herring. we need to be reasonably competitive in that endeavor but we don't need the taj mahal. we need to WIN.

    win more games and they will come.
     
  29. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Yeah, I miss that place.
     

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