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CU Offensive Line Recruiting Strategy/Questions

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by Bufferman, May 22, 2012.

  1. Bufferman

    Bufferman Member

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    Maybe this is the wrong place to post this but I would like to get your views on this article in the Denver Post: http://blogs.denverpost.com/college...rt/23744/?source=skipframe-bleacherreport.com
    Some snippets ...
    "Colorado’s offensive line could use some depth, but apparently 2012 signee Gerrad Kough won’t be helping until 2013.

    Kough, a 6-foot-5, 280-pound guard from Pomona (Calif.) High School, told Rivals.com that CU coaches asked him to “grayshirt” and delay his enrollment until January so his NCAA eligibility clock won’t begin until 2013."

    "... from what coach EB was telling me, I will get an opportunity to mature a little bit more and get a bit stronger in the weight room."

    "CU coach Jon Embree told reporters following spring drills that he may grayshirt more than one player."

    So thoughts running through my head:
    1) What IS considered 'mature' for an OG, mature enough to play for CU?
    2) Is grayshirting a 'strategy' that CU is or will be regularly employing?
    3) Can and will a recruit know ahead of time what is expected of him development-wise with goals and suitable expectations being set BEFORE signing a NLI?

    Thanks guys!
    Bufferman
     
  2. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    I know nothing. However, I want to comment. Plus, as far as the article goes, it was pretty obvious that this particular OL recruit was not going to contribute right away. Doesn't mean it is the same for all. We had one true frosh start last year, for instance.

    I'm going to move this to its own thread so as not to mess up the recruit thread.

    1. Physical development to play is not just weight, it's good weight. Lots of kids need to reshape their bodies (not all 310 lb's are made the same, see: Nate Solder) before they have the strength to play at the BCS level. The ones who are ready right away are very rare, imho. Even 4 stars often take a while to get ready. Most BCS programs do not play true frosh OL except in rare instances. Last year we did play one as at LT for a half due to injury/desperation.

    2. I don't think an unplanned greyshirt is something that CU will be employing "regularly" or for more than 1 or so players per year. It happened once last year (due to injury) and once this year (unknown cause).

    3. From my reading of different recruit articles, it seems the coaches are pretty open with the expectations for different players. If this is the first that Kough had heard of a grey shirt, for instance, I would be kind of surprised. However, I don't know that for a certainty.
     
  3. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    knowing nothing hasn't stopped me from posting over 9k times.
     
  4. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Sounds like a bush league move by embree to me. The kid should have known he was going to be grey shirting BEFORE he signed his LOI.
     
  5. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Depends on what was said prior to LOI, agreed. Like I said, if the kid agreed knowing that he may greyshirt depending on availability of a slot, that's different. We really don't know the whole story here.

    I think it was bama who, post signing, told the kid he was gonna greyshirt, then, when he greyshirted, told him he didn't have a spot at all. Now, THAT would be bush league for sure.
     
  6. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    are you positive that he didn't know beforehand. Maybe they had some agreement and Kough didn't do what he needed.
     
  7. Bufferman

    Bufferman Member

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    Yes - we don't know the whole story.

    What IS being reported doesn't sound great: "[Colorado offensive coordinator and running backs] coach Eric Bieniemy actually called me yesterday and told me I am going to leave in January," Kough told BuffStampede.com on Sunday afternoon. "They are going to grayshirt me."

    So according to this he found out May 19th, just before graduating HS, that he wouldn't be attending CU in the fall.

    Sounds like a surprise to me but reserving judgment since all I 'know' is what was reported.
     
  8. mattrob

    mattrob Club Member Club Member

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    I doubt it was anything like that. If anything, I would guess that everyone did hold up their end and the academic risks all qualified, which wasn't really expected. Either way, Kough has his schollie and no one was cut.
     
  9. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    The quote you are speaking of can be taken either way. Ya, he didn't know he was greyshirting until then. However, he doesn't say whether he knew it was a possibility one way or another. Only way to "know" is to ask the coaches about the situation.
     
  10. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    From what I understand, Kough did not know he would be grayshirting until recently.

    But the coaches didn't know either. What this move means is that everyone is now expected to academically qualify for this class despite the fact that we took some flyers on guys.

    Got to make room for the guys who could contribute this season. So Kough, who needs to gain weight and strength plus work on developing his technique before he would potentially see the field, now gets to train for 4 months plus go through winter conditioning and spring practice before he hits fall practice next year. In the final analysis, he is in the same place he would have otherwise been for the 2013 season except he's on year 1 of his 5-year eligibility clock (instead of year 2) and he's a semester ahead of the game on academics.
     
  11. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Positives aside, I hate this part of the game of college athletics. Again, I still want to know whether he was told some version of the statement "If everyone else qualifies, we are going to ask you to grey shirt, even though we really don't think everyone is going to qualify." That is very different.
     
  12. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Agree with this, we don't know the context or what was said to him before. It very well could have been that he was told that when he reported would depend on how the class came together.

    Either way it doesn't sound like he is real broken up over it. Again hard to tell without context but he sounds pretty enthusiastic about it and I agree with I think it was Leash who talked about developing OL and grayshirting helping the kids.
     
  13. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    Yeah - agree 100% here. If he was told that he might have to greyshirt if everyone qualified, then I have no issue. If it was something out of the blue, then that is sucky
     
  14. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Adam made a comment on the Rivals board that in all his years of covering this stuff, pretty much every kid has some disappointment when he finds out that he will grayshirt or redshirt... and that he can't remember ever talking to a senior who said he regretted his redshirt or grayshirt year.

    It's really the opposite. I bet that Nick Kasa now wishes he had redshirted as a freshman, for example.
     
  15. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    What part of "positives aside" did you not get? :lol:
     
  16. sliderNcider

    sliderNcider MacLovin Club Member

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    Ya I agree. But, don't really care. This is how the big boys do it. It was either us or Army for Kough, not a sucky choice
     
  17. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

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    I would be seriously surprised if the concept of gray-shirting never popped up in all the conversations he had with Embree and Marshall. He was listed at 270 when we started recruiting him, and that could have been a friendly 270.
     
  18. SECOBuffsFan

    SECOBuffsFan Active Member

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    Not bush league at all...Coaches are responsible to do what is best for the program and the individual...this works out well for both because Kough would have got caught up in numbers game otherwise
     
  19. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I was responding to Mtn, not you, and expanding on what he posted.
     
    Darth Snow likes this.
  20. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Uh... It appears he already got 'caught up in numbers game.' While we don't know exactly what went down here, I want to go on record that I don't want our coach over signing and then forcing kids out or to grey shirt. If the coach tells them there is a possibility that they will grey shirt and then they end up greyshirtting, that's one thing. But if there's no mention of it before the LOI is signed, they should not be required to gs.
     
  21. Bufferman

    Bufferman Member

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    This thread has been a great eye opener for me. Under certain circumstances I can see advantages to greyshirting above and beyond the more usual redshirting. You could say 'All's well that ends well' but I personally would advocate up front education and honest discussion so that student-athletes and parents go in with their eyes open. (Again, not knowing the full story, I can't say that this didn't happen.)
     
  22. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    The way Kough responded kind of matter of factly makes it sound to me like he knew it was a possibility. Otherwise he would have been more upset.
     
  23. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    To me, the bigger issue is OL recruiting in general. Not very good right now and the whole "we did not focus on it in 2012, so no big deal" spin is fishy.
     
  24. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    If one or two of the DLs from this class end up switching sides to the OL like Nembot did last year, that will change my impression of the 2012 OL class. Besides, there's no way we want to have 9 DLs in the same class (or whatever that number ended up at).
     
  25. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I agree. But we better not be overloading on the offensive line in this class either. Five max (including Kough) should be the target. Otherwise, we are going to constantly be chasing numbers.
     
  26. nocoolnamejim

    nocoolnamejim Active Member

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    I meant to post this in the previous discussion on offensive linemen when someone, don't remember who, asked a question about the difficulty in evaluating OL prospects and projecting them and asked if they were more error prone from a ratings perspective than other positions.

    According to Scott Kennedy, Scout.com's Director of Scouting, evaluating and projecting offensive linemen prospects is the most difficult position out there and it isn't even close.

    http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1096285.html

    "According to Kennedy, the toughest position to evaluate is an offensive lineman, "and it's not close," he added. "Big guys develop more slowly. Skill players are born, linemen are built. While we are ranking them, they are the farthest from being finished products, which makes them the hardest to project."
     
  27. josef

    josef Club Member Club Member

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    So the kid is getting a super long summer instead of a super short summer. I would look at it as having the opportunity to be in college an extra semester. Dude could probably get his masters before he is done is he wants to. Kough will definitely see this as a good thing when its all said and done.
     
  28. josef

    josef Club Member Club Member

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    Another quick question for the nerds who actually read the NCAA rule book. Is this really a grey shirt or is this just a deferred enrollment?

    My understanding is that your clock starts as soon as you start classes. It doesnt matter if that is when you are 18 or 50. So if he isnt starting classes until next spring semester does he really burn a grey shirt? The reason I ask is what if he ends up actually needing a medical grey shirt (comes in redshirts then gets hurt in camp or something)? Am I missing something here?
     
  29. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Difference between a redshirt and grayshirt. Redshirt means officially enrolled, not playing that season, counts against the players eligibility clock. Grayshirt means not officially enrolled until second semester, clock doesn't start. Still has 5 years to play 4 (barring an injury redshirt which may add one more in some cases.)
     
  30. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    There's no greyshirt to burn. It's a term that describes a deferred enrollment.

    There's also no such thing as a medical greyshirt (or medical redshirt, for that matter). Once he starts, he has 5 years to play 4. If he gets hurt, he can use that as a redshirt year. If he loses more than one year to injury, he can apply to the NCAA for a medical hardship waiver and get a 6th year on the clock after the 5 are up.

    One thing the greyshirt does, which we haven't discussed, is that it voids the LOI and the player becomes a free agent. Kough could theoretically decide to join another football program this fall or winter.
     

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