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CU Vision

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Walter White, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    What is the vision for CU football?

    I’m stating the obvious, but I think sustained football success is primarily a function of these three factors presented in order of importance:

    1. Win at all costs attitude (admin & broad fan base)
    2. Resources
    3. Proximity to recruiting (Statistically, most of the best players play close to home, in-state or in-region.)

    Every program will ebb and flow over time; that’s inevitable. Even the historical powerhouse programs go through dry spells, but many, if not most, eventually claw their way back to the top ranks because of the three factors presented above. Alabama is a perfect example. Nobody has a crystal ball when it comes to selecting coaches. Most of the historical powerhouse programs strike out more than once, but what separates them from the rest is their willingness to fire high priced coaches and then find another high priced coach. Also, these programs are willing and able to spend big bucks on coordinators, staff, facilities, etc. It’s a culture. You put a losing product on the field at a powerhouse program and there is tremendous and consistent pressure coming from all directions to turn things around; it’s not just a few hard core football fans in internet boards.

    On a relative basis, CU does not score very well on any of the Three Factors, particularly #1, although #2 is much improved with the new Pac12 TV money. That said, I’m not sure CU would even want a win at all costs attitude. I’m not sure it’s healthy or desirable.

    So what is the vision? What is the model? What are the expectations? What does “success” look like at CU?

    Personally, I think success at CU looks like a middle of the pack Pac-12 team, with occasional runs at the conference championship when the pieces fall into place (CU’s 2001 B12 Conference Championship is a good example). What you don’t want to be, obviously, is the perennial cellar dweller, which is where CU is now.

    To be honest, I think Barnett was a good coach for CU. I think he fit the model--middle of the pack results with occasionally bursts. Very few schools can maintain The Pipeline—replacing graduating senior superstars with up and coming superstars. Without that, you’re going to have to endure a lot of .500 seasons if you’re playing in one of the big conferences. The competition is fierce.

    On a side note, the real test for Embree & staff is the aggregate performance against: CSU, Sac State, Fresno, Washington State, and Utah. To me, that’s apples to apples. You lose all of those games and something is wrong with the coaching. You can’t blame it on talent or experience.

    I’d be curious to see what others here see as the model for CU. What other schools are doing what CU would like to do, and could do? Wisconsin comes to mind for me. Washington seems to be on the right track. They had 7 wins last year and a bowl appearance. I think they got the right guy in Sarkisian.
     
    leftybuff likes this.
  2. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Excellent post.

    One thing that is the wildcard for CU is that it's a great campus in a fantastic location. Because of that, it has always been a place that can attract recruits from California, Texas and other places. When the program is winning, it consistently draws Top 25 recruiting classes. And that's been with a facilities disadvantage.

    If we get the facilities and show a winning product, the potential is a regularly ranked program that is in the mix for a conference championship every year. Especially with the new revenue streams.

    One huge advantage CU has that relates to on-field performance is that unlike places like UCLA the players can't go home on weekends or have the distractions of hanging out with their old crew from home. Because of this, our football team is able to build a close-knit family atmosphere that you don't see many other places.

    I don't believe that CU can ever be expected to be like USC, Ohio State, Florida State, Alabama or Oklahoma over the long haul but there's no reason the program can't be one of the Top 20 in the nation.
     
  3. InTheBuff

    InTheBuff Club Member Club Member

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  4. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Because Benson and DiStepheno are ignorant to the gains excellence in athletics can bring a school. They really need to read that study on athletics and schools someone posted last night.
     
  5. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Well said. Rep on the way.

    I have always believed CU had the resources to be a perennial top 25 team. To me that means being in the upper tier of it's conference, and a bowl game should be the norm. I realize there may be some 5-7 years along the way, but as a rule CU ought to be turning in 8-9 W's a year, and occasionally having a run like was had in 90-91, 94-96, 01-02, where CU is a player in the national spotlight. It can be done, it has been done before by three different coaches, Mac, the Buff daddy, Tricky Ricky, riding Mac's talented roster, and GB who put together a nice run as well. You can even look back at coaches before my time, Crowder, Mallory etc. who had a good deal of success.

    But, as the OP points out, everyone must be rowing in the same direction. BB, Dr. Phil and Mike "Costco" Bohn simply aren't committed to that goal.
     
  6. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

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    Not too long ago, I'm sure some of those schools were saying that about CU.
     
  7. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I don’t see how anyone would not want to go to school in Boulder after you take in the view coming into town on 36 on a particularly nice day. What a beautiful scene! What other school could match that?


    That said, I do not believe there are many “football player types” who care, or place any value on this when evaluating their many options. I don’t think that’s a selling point for very many highly regarded urban football players. It certainly is for me, but I don’t think it is for them. I think CU got Cali and TX recruits back in the day because CU was kicking ***** in football. That's just my opinion.
     
  8. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

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    There was a lot of charisma on those staffs too, from what i've heard.
     
  9. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    I think it's less Bohn and more the other two. All three are at fault though.
     
  10. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    It has been my opinion since the fatal keeping of HaLk for the fifth year that MB is simply a yes man. Maybe that's unfair, but that is what he looks like to me.
     
  11. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    From what I understand, Bohn wanted Halk gone after the 2009 but was overruled. Not sure how much more he could have done but he seems to be pretty limited by Benson and DiStepheno.
     
  12. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

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    It is amazing how the landscape works - after reading the above post. Why is Texas not in the top 5 every year?? Recruits, big expectations, easy conference (now). Then look at nu always winning terrible place to live, no recruiting grounds anywhere close to stinkin??? It is a combination of chemistry, coaching, talent and support from the school.
     
  13. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Not this again
     
  14. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    There does seem to be a pattern. I think the basic fundamentals hold true over time. There is ebb and flow, of course, but over time the results are there.


    Texas Recent Results
    YearRankingBCS Bowl
    200012
    20015
    20026
    200312
    20045Rose Bowl Win
    20051National Championship
    200613
    200710
    20084Fiesta Bowl Win
    20092National Championship Game



    Nebraska Results
    YearRanking
    20008
    20018
    200319
    200524
    200914
    201020
    201124
     
  15. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    Here is the rankign of the schools with the best winnning % over the past 11 years. I took out the non-BCS schools like Boise State. As you can see, the schools at the top are who you would expect to see at the top based on 1. win at all costs mentality, 2. resources and 3. proximity to recruits.
    RankTeam nameWinning %WonLost
    2Oklahoma0.8040511929
    3Texas0.8028211428
    4Southern Cal0.7952810126
    5Louisiana State0.793111530
    7Ohio State0.7751910029
    8Virginia Tech0.748311037
    9Georgia0.7361110638
    10Florida0.7342710538
    12Oregon0.7214310139
    13Auburn0.7163110140
    14West Virginia0.705049841
    15Wisconsin0.692319944
    16Miami-Florida0.681169444
    17tIowa0.661879247
    19Boston College0.652489249
    20Michigan0.652179048
     
  16. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

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    nice Walter!
     
  17. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    So given that data, Texas has an average ranking of 7 and NU has a average ranking of 16.7. Texas averages 7.27 wins/year. NU 7.07 wins/year. Texas averages 0.26 conference titles/year. NU 0.38 conference titles/year. Texas averages a national title every 29.5 years. NU 24.2

    Hate both of these programs but I don't understand the Texas does less with more and NU does more with less argument all the time
     
  18. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

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    Crazy thing - That is truly why I love college football over all sports...You never know
     
  19. dply

    dply Doble hoja Club Member

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    Didn't you just answer that? Texas and nebraska have very similar states except for the average ranking. Texas always gets the top recruits and funds their AD like no other school yet nebraska is right up there with them.
     
  20. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    There are philosophical remnants, if not flat out objectives, still stemming from the previous (Bitsy) CU Admin's overreaction to the "scandal." After the scandal and subsequent house-cleaning, the new or surviving Admins went into reactionary and job control mode to avoid having an out-of-control football program, which the vocal Boulderites and local media would have had you believe was the case. After the scandal, the priority list became something like: 1) avoid future scandal; 2) become/stay profitable annually; 3) do not piss off faculty, Boulder PD, Boulder DA, Boulder citizens; 4) be competitive on the field. So, the current state of the program is aligned with this plan. Until the Admin purges this mentality, we will continue to be mediocre.
     
  21. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    That's a good point, maybe I should just say that Texas, despite what some people think, do win and do it a lot. They're right up there with the bluebloods.
     
  22. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    Look, in the last 11 years Texas is ranked #3 in winning percentage over the course of nearly 150 games. That’s a pretty good sample size. Nebraska is ranked #20. That’s a pretty big difference. Furthermore, Texas is 9-1 in head to head competition in the last 10 games.

    However, NU is coming out of a down cycle, which is exactly what I said happened to historical powerhouses. The same thing has happened at various times with Texas, Bama, USC, Michigan, Florida, etc.

    Back to my main point, success over time is a result of commitment, money, and proximity to recruits. Nebraska has two of those three is spades, which is why they are a historical powerhouse. NU is not an exception to the formula; they prove the formula. NU spends the bucks. They fired Stolich (sp?) for crying out loud. That guy’s record would be solid gold at most schools. They’ll keep firing people and spending until they get it right. You know they will.

    By contrast, UCLA has amazing proximity to recruits, but they absolutely do not have the win at all costs mentality--and their winnign percentage is a reflection of that attitude fromt the admin and fans/alumni.
     
  23. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    Benson is running a multi-billion dollar enterprise that hires thousands and serves tens of thousands. Getting caught up in a $40-$60M piece of the business that employs several dozen employees and several hundred student athletes is below him. Benson wants to create Colorado jobs through the Med Center investment, he wants to land hundreds of millions of dollars in federal research grants and hold on to what is left of State higher education funding. Athletics is a self-sufficient operation that is a 'nice to have'. It's not a Must Have.

    DiStephano got saddled with the AD after the 200 scandal and his charge is to provide "institutional oversight". His mission is to keep student athletes from embarrassing the school from the perspective of NCAA compliance and staying out of legal problems. That program GPA shows DiStephano has a bias towards the student half of the student-athlete. The Boulder campus is run by an academic first policy.

    Mike Bohn has to deliver to his boss responsible financial stewardship and compliance. Winning conference championships are not a manditory criteria in Mike's evaluation, or he'd be gone by now. Mike emphasizes community relations and marketing. Athletic operations are 100 percent delegated to his coaches. It's not Mike's place own up for Hawkins or Embree. He gives the coached all the rope they need to hang themselves.

    It would be great if the next President is passionate about football winning titles and brings the Athletic Director under him as a direct report.
     
  24. Walter White

    Walter White Member

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    All-time record

    RankTeamWinLossTieGamesPct.PFPADelta
    1Michigan8953123812450.734307991414916650
    2Texas8583333412250.714295081578713721
    3Nebraska8563494112460.703307191609814621
    4Notre Dame (IN)8533014111950.731301261500015126
    5Ohio St.8253165311940.713280641447113593
    6Oklahoma8193105311820.715319511506316888
    7Alabama8143204311770.71281041341314691
    8Tennessee7943475411950.687266311536811263
    9Southern California7793135411460.703276751479312882
    10Georgia7484005412020.64525214165918623
    11Louisiana St.7343904711710.64724980153689612
    12Auburn (AL)7184054711700.63424084161797905
    13Penn St.7163614311200.658280961536912727
    14West Virginia7014574512030.60124741183766365
    15Syracuse (NY)6914924912320.58125072186446428
    16Virginia Tech6904344611700.60923619163037316
    17Georgia Tech6894614311930.59624607175327075
    18Texas A&M6824504811800.59824746168247922
    19Arkansas6794564011750.59524077174546623
    20Pittsburgh (PA)6784934112120.57623503189744529
    21Colorado6764523611640.59624403192045199
     
  25. 14er

    14er “Imitation is suicide.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    oxymoron
     

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