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Downward spiral: Once a powerhouse, CU football falls to BCS basement

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by RSSBot, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. RSSBot

    RSSBot News Junkie

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    By Kyle Ringo Camera Sports Writer

    Five star recruits don't come here anymore. National rankings are a thing of the past. United States presidents are elected more often than the Colorado football program earns road wins.

    Originally posted by Daily Camera
    Click here to view the article.
     
  2. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    I would like DiStephano to think differently. It's simply not enough to desire that the program should be competitive.

    DiStephano and the President and the BoR should set forth a more powerful vision that focuses on clearer goals.

    Come on, Phil. Repeat after me. "Under my watch, it is my mission to help CU football get to a place where they win the Pac 12 South. Then I want the team to win the conference championship game and go forth to win the Rose Bowl. I want this football program to bring Boulder more national championships."

    Say it, Phil. C'mon. Just come out and say it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  3. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    I had the same reaction. Competitive in the Pac 12? What the **** does that mean?

    Those are the words of someone who is not committed to winning. In his defense he did say "extremely"...
     
  4. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what more CU brass needs to do. They aren't going to sacrifice academic requirements - nor should they. Investments have been made in facilities - new practice bubble, new coaching offices, renovations to the locker rooms, etc.

    What more is the University supposed to do? Time for the coaches / recruiters to step up.
     
  5. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    The facilities are not competitive, the facullty is not pro-athletics, and our athletic admission standards are much higher than many of the top programs. It is not all about the coaching....
     
  6. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Which facilities are not competitive? Are they state of the art, like Oregon? No. But don't mistake state of the art for competitive. CU's facilities are certainly good enough for success. They were good enough in 1989/1990. They were good enough in 1994. They were good enough in 2001,2002, etc. Could they be better? Of course. If CU wants to pump multiple millions of dollars into athletic facilities I am sure there are upgrades that could be made.

    Academics are untouchable at CU -as they should be- so barking that they should be changed is a complete lost cause and simply needs to be dropped. CU fans all want that diploma on the wall to mean something, right up until they thing it causes their football team to stink.
     
  7. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    off the top of my head:

    tennis
    indoor track and field
    football
    swimming
     
  8. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    It is time for the coaches to step up and recruit better and win games, on that we can agree.

    As to facilities, we get a bubble others are building indoor practice structures, the Dal Ward center is out of date, Folsom id one of the most spectacular settings in college football but the video boards are out of date and other parts of the game day experience have been ignored or skimped on. Admissions are less than winning friendly, if Stanford and Cal can let in some of the athletes they recruit then we have some room for compromise without jepordizing the fantasy they have of our academic standards and status.

    Our coaches are among the lowest paid at any school in an AQ conference living in an expensive city, this added to limited job security. If Phil were really interested in the program being competitive our new staff would have been coaching and recruiting at least a year earlier as Hawkins would have been a memory sooner. I know that the decision came more from Benson but Phil could have bent his ear and supported the change happening.

    The program also doesn't have faculty support on a level comparable to other schools. Part of this is the climate itself and individual faculty members will make their own minds up but DiStephano can influence this relationship a great deal by leading and communicating with the faculty regarding the role and benefits of the athletic program at a major university, instead we get "crickets."

    They aren't going to fire him but let's hope he retires soon and we get someone in the position who is a more effective advocate for the athletic program and in fact for a lot of the elements that contribute to the university experience.

    Normally turnover in the Chancelors office of a school like CU is frequent. The position is a stepping stone into a position as president of a university someplace else. The fact that Phil has been in the job as long as he has without a hint of upward movement shows that he lacks leadership, charisma, ambition, and the confidence of those who work for him and employ him. He is in fact a glorified yes man and not just the athletic program but the entire university suffers for it.
     
  9. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Again - you're talking about being state of the art - which is different than competitive.

    CU has video boards. Not the best. Not the worst, either.

    CU has an indoor facility. There are places that don't.

    CU just remodeled Dal Ward. Could it be better? Sure. Could be a lot worse too.

    CU stepped up pay for assistant coaches to the tune of approximately $1 million extra dollars with the Embree hire. Are they the highest paid in the world? No. Not the lowest, either. I certainly wouldn't expect a coach who has never been a coordinator on any level to make serious bank. The opportunity for a great payday is there for Embree. His contract is performance laden. And frankly for the product that's been put on the field this year they are overpaid.

    You're wasting your time with the academic complaints. Just not going to change.
     
  10. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Talk is cheap, Phil. Show me.

    And it´s not only the football program that completely stinks.
     
  11. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    This.

    If Phil wanted to show a real commitment, he'd come out and say exactly what they're doing to get "competitive". He'd lay out a facilities plan that says what will be built, when it will be built, how much it's expected to cost and how they plan to pay for it. He'd do more than spew platitudes about desiring a winning program. That's just a bunch of hot air. I'm not seeing the commitment, just the vague desire.
     
  12. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Sacky almost always gets a shot in at Dave Plati.
     
  13. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    It's a pretty big target. Hard to miss.
     
  14. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    This is a weird point if view, and one that seems complacent and defeatist.

    There is a correlation between state-of-the-art and success. Teams that are in a position to win have facilities that attract and develop talent. This includes comfortable dormitories, training rooms, conference rooms, academic support, weight rooms, indoor facilities for inclimate weather, and so on. Reference Oklahoma State as an example near to you.

    To turn the tables, name a recent BCS conference champion with facilities that are inferior to CU.

    So far as academics quality, at a minimum, CU must maintain AAU membership status. It would be nice if CU could be within sniffing distance of Stanford or Cal as measured by rankings, endowments, grants, Nobel prizes, professor salaries, and so forth. But let's be frank, Col Slade, the CU diploma is respectable, but not top drawer for most degree programs.

    With NASA and aerospace industries under perpetual threats of budget cuts, the engine that drives CU's academic prestige had better days in the past. I'm not so sure CU is on the bleeding edge of green energy. CU Boulder lost out on medical research to Denver. CU missed the boat on homeland security, doesn't focus much on petroleum, and isn't near enough to Silicon Valley or big time coastal venture capital to capitalize on technology as much as schools around Boston, New York, or within California. The Business school isn't exactly cranking out billionaire donors.

    Adding to the academic decline is a state government that had a convoluted higher ed policy that skimps on funding, relative to other states.

    In short, get off the academic high horse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  15. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I´m either blind or I don´t see it, but as you´re mentioning Plati, the USC media people were falling over themselves praising the CU SID. Said it was by far the best in the Pac and they even handed out a half time report with player and coaches quotes.
     
  16. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Sorry it was a Platitudes joke. Plati is the best in the business, by the way, but I did disagree strongly with his stance on the Blue Fans. I do agree with him on internet scum. You people pretty much suck.
     
  17. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    I believe we could revert to the 1990s plan, and have a different academic standard for the football program. That would not lessen the value of my degree. In fact, a return of prominence of the football program would greatly enhance my degree, and make me much more marketable. So **** you! :thumbsup:
     
  18. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    we are probably dead last in terms of facilities in the PAC:12. I wouldn't consider that competitive.
     
  19. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Agreed. Slade needs a stiff dose of reality.
     
  20. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I do not think that´s true. We probably were dead last in the Big 12, but the Pac hasn´t quite joined the nuclear arms race yet with the exception of Oregon. However, with all this TV money that´s coming in, I suspect that is going to change soon and CU would be ill-advised to further ignore facility upgrades.

    I think Liver or another guy who lives out West said as much about the Pac 12 facilities.
     
  21. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Sounds awful. Agree
     
  22. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    What all the big time programs have that CU does not have: big-time donors that pay for facility upgrades and increased coaching salaries.
    Look at most of the programs with highly paid coaching staffs. The school itself only picks up a very small portion of that salary, the rest is paid by the booster clubs. If I remember right, Saban only gets paid something like $200k from Alabama, but gets the rest of his $4 million from the Alabama booster club.

    Most of the high dollar facility upgrades at those schools were paid for in great portion by mega-donors.

    If CU doesn't have big-time donors, then we can't afford big-time facilities, big-time coaches, and will probably not get big-time recruits because of it.

    Can we be competitive without those things? Certainly.

    But we will not be "Returning to Glory" in regards to being an elite program, until the multi-million-dollar donors return first.

    We should be able to compete with Arizona, Utah, Oregon State, Cal, UCLA, and Arizona State from where we currently stand; and I think Embree will get us there within 2-3 years. There is some major work to be done and we need to support him to get there. To take it beyond that level and compete with USC, Oregon, and Washington in the Pac-12 elite on a consistent basis we will need to grow our donor base, and that has happened with the Pac-12 move but needs some more football success as momentum to continue.
     
  23. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Until they return? When were they ever at CU?

    Other than Coors $5 million gift in 1990 for the Coors Events Center --- when was the last major donation to CU athletics? (Google says the largest individual [as in a person, not a corporation] donation came in 2009 and was $4.75 million)
     
  24. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Scotty, put yourself in a big donor's shoes. Would you part with a lot of money when you have the Chancellor and AD spewing endless platitudes? There needs to be more clear communication between the administration/AD and the fanbase as to what our ultimate goals are, otherwise it makes no difference.

    Enough with the "we want to be competitive" talk and actually start laying out concrete goals. The people in charge have no desire to do anything of the sort because they do not want to put their jobs on the line. Good luck in getting people to buy into that culture by donating large sums of money.
     
  25. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    What happened to the 30 people who were going to kick in $1M each?
     
  26. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Arms race has hit the Pac12...look at Cal and Washington, even Wazzu is about to make some big improvements. We're about to get buried in the Pac just like we did in the BigXII unless something changes drastically in the next few years.
     
  27. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Maybe I worded it poorly, but what I meant to say is the Pac isn´t the Big 12 and there´s still time to react for CU whereas we were hopelessly left behind in the Big 12.
     
  28. liverflukes

    liverflukes Resident Bear Club Member

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    Waiting for a major millionaire donor is a long shot. Waiting for a public university's brain trust to formulate a master plan and facilities upgrade strategy might be a pipe dream. Waiting is part of the problem. If the interest level and passion is there (and it does seem to be with CU programs) there should be nothing stopping alumni and the fan base from starting a grass roots effort to get it done on your own. The Pac 12 money will help when it rolls in but having an enthusiastic young head coach, fertile recruiting grounds, a rather rabid fan base and a great location for a school with well known academic and athletic traditions should not be overlooked despite this season's record. Winning certainly has a positive snowball effect on all things at a university but it's when you're losing, or worse, when a program is about to be cut that your true colors should show. If our stadium / SAHPC renovations can be completed through two losing seasons at a university which frowns upon athletics, there is no reason to believe that CU has it any tougher. If that's not enough to get you all off suicide watch, here's a road map to consider:

    http://www.savecalbaseball.com/news

    Cheer up Buffs. There are always other options and much brighter days ahead. Glad to have you in the PAC and looking forward to basketball season.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  29. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    We´re banning you if Ty Wallace picks Cal over CU! Consider yourself warned!

    :)
     
  30. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    Dr. Phil is a big Joke. He says one thing and does another. There is not commitment from the administration for improvement, there is no accountability.
     
    Jens1893 likes this.

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