Entertaining thread

[Johnny Juzang]

I left Boulder 16 years ago after living there for three years while attending grad school. I lived in Denver for four years before that for undergrad. As a kid, I moved around a lot but spent a good amount of time on the Western Slope and in New Mexico. When I lived in Boulder it really just seemed to me like Fort Collins or Grand Junction, but with $$$.

You can call Boulderites "limousine liberals" but there's a lot more limousine than liberal. All that open space? That's not environmentalism, that's protection of real estate values. Hostility to university expansion? NIMBYism at its finest.

Coloradans like to attribute the elitism in Boulder to liberalism, but many Coloradans think completely moderate views are "liberal." I attribute the elitism many feel when their in Boulder to money, not politics.

Wow. Right on the money.

 

[Duff Man]

You can call Boulderites "limousine liberals" but there's a lot more limousine than liberal. All that open space? That's not environmentalism, that's protection of real estate values. Hostility to university expansion? NIMBYism at its finest.

I work in planning for Boulder County. You greatly over-simplify the Open Space issue.

 

[Costa Rica Buff]

I left Boulder 16 years ago after living there for three years while attending grad school. I lived in Denver for four years before that for undergrad. As a kid, I moved around a lot but spent a good amount of time on the Western Slope and in New Mexico. When I lived in Boulder it really just seemed to me like Fort Collins or Grand Junction, but with $$$.

You can call Boulderites "limousine liberals" but there's a lot more limousine than liberal. All that open space? That's not environmentalism, that's protection of real estate values. Hostility to university expansion? NIMBYism at its finest.

Coloradans like to attribute the elitism in Boulder to liberalism, but many Coloradans think completely moderate views are "liberal." I attribute the elitism many feel when their in Boulder to money, not politics.

As someone who grew up in Boulder, I agree with your comments regarding limousine liberals and how 'elitism' has been erroneously attributed to liberalism. But I vociferously disagree with two others. England and France have more in common than Boulder does with either Grand Junction or Ft. Collins . I'd say the only true common trait is the fact they are all located in the state of Colorado. The differences go well beyond the wealth of their residents.

Also, the open space laws we're set up many decades ago for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with real estate values. Most Boulderites realize that the Greenbelt is the only barrier preventing the city from becoming a suburb of Denver.

 

[Darth Snow]

As someone who grew up in Boulder, I agree with your comments regarding limousine liberals and how 'elitism' has been erroneously attributed to liberalism. But I vociferously disagree with two others. England and France have more in common than Boulder does with either Grand Junction or Ft. Collins . I'd say the only true common trait is the fact they are all located in the state of Colorado. The differences go well beyond the wealth of their residents.

Also, the open space laws we're set up many decades ago for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with real estate values. Most Boulderites realize that the Greenbelt is the only barrier preventing the city from becoming a suburb of Denver.

:yeahthat:

There are some negative effects of open space, but jesus I hate suburbia that goes on without end.

 

[Duff Man]

Also, the open space laws we're set up many decades ago for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with real estate values. Most Boulderites realize that the Greenbelt is the only barrier preventing the city from becoming a suburb of Denver.

Correct.

 

[sackman]

Also, the open space laws we're set up many decades ago for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with real estate values. Most Boulderites realize that the Greenbelt is the only barrier preventing the city from becoming a suburb of Denver.

:yeahthat:

There are some negative effects of open space, but jesus I hate suburbia that goes on without end.

Correct.

:lol: at the open space love fest that is taking place here. BoCo just approved spending $850K on a defunct goat dairy. Yeah, like that's really going to help keep urban sprawl down. Last week, they were asking the state for more money to fund other programs. The priorities for spending taxpayer dollars in this county are beyond absurd, they're laughable.

 

[RalphieMalph]

:yeahthat:

There are some negative effects of open space, but jesus I hate suburbia that goes on without end.

As a person who lived in Parker, Colorado from 1990 through 2003, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Duff Man]

:lol: at the open space love fest that is taking place here. BoCo just approved spending $850K on a defunct goat dairy. Yeah, like that's really going to help keep urban sprawl down. Last week, they were asking the state for more money to fund other programs. The priorities for spending taxpayer dollars in this county are beyond absurd, they're laughable.

Considering there is a dedicated tax to open space passed by those crazy taxpayers, I'm not sure what your beef is with open space in the area. They're required to use that money on open space. BTW, you should realize that just about every major county and municipality in the Denver metro area has an open space program, many supported with dedicated taxes that were passed by taxpayers (including Adams County of all places). People like open space, get used to it.

There are some drawbacks at times with open space (affordable housing among them), but people in Colorado have pretty clearly affirmed their desires for it.

 

[sackman]

Considering there is a dedicated tax to open space passed by those crazy taxpayers, I'm not sure what your beef is with open space in the area. They're required to use that money on open space. BTW, you should realize that just about every major county and municipality in the Denver metro area has an open space program, many supported with dedicated taxes that were passed by taxpayers (including Adams County of all places). People like open space, get used to it.

There are some drawbacks at times with open space (affordable housing among them), but people in Colorado have pretty clearly affirmed their desires for it.

First things first. yes the taxpayers passed the open space tax. It was passed more on inertia than anything. Anybody who votes for such a thing at this point has no idea of the negative impact this tax has on the health of the county. The enviro-nazis in the City of Boulder have decided that open space taxes will be passed without question every time the question comes up. So we're stuck with it. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it worthwhile.

Here's my beef (I actually have several of them) with the entire program. It was started in the early 70's as a way to keep BOULDER (not necessarily Boulder County, just Boulder) a stand-alone community. Fine. That mission was accomplished about 25 years ago. Since then, it's been a blank check for the county to gobble up private land and enforce it's land use agenda on the rest of the county. The benefits of the open space program are far outweighed by the costs, and are concentrated in the hands of very few, while the entire county foots the bill. Furthermore, every time the county buys up a parcel of land, it takes that land off the county tax rolls, which reduces the revenue back to the county for things like social services, roads, law enforcement, etc. This basic premise is completely lost on dipsh!ts like Ron Stewart, who never saw an empty piece of land that he didn't want to buy. Finally, I can't remember the exact number, but something like 400,000 acres in Boulder County is publicly controlled. That's over half of the county. What an incredible waste. That's land that needs to be maintained, too. But guess what? the county is running out of money to maintain the gobs and gobs of land it already owns. AND YET THEY BUY MORE!!! It's insanity.

 

[Darth Snow]

First things first. yes the taxpayers passed the open space tax. It was passed more on inertia than anything. Anybody who votes for such a thing at this point has no idea of the negative impact this tax has on the health of the county. The enviro-nazis in the City of Boulder have decided that open space taxes will be passed without question every time the question comes up. So we're stuck with it. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it worthwhile.

Here's my beef (I actually have several of them) with the entire program. It was started in the early 70's as a way to keep BOULDER (not necessarily Boulder County, just Boulder) a stand-alone community. Fine. That mission was accomplished about 25 years ago. Since then, it's been a blank check for the county to gobble up private land and enforce it's land use agenda on the rest of the county. The benefits of the open space program are far outweighed by the costs, and are concentrated in the hands of very few, while the entire county foots the bill. Furthermore, every time the county buys up a parcel of land, it takes that land off the county tax rolls, which reduces the revenue back to the county for things like social services, roads, law enforcement, etc. This basic premise is completely lost on dipsh!ts like Ron Stewart, who never saw an empty piece of land that he didn't want to buy. Finally, I can't remember the exact number, but something like 400,000 acres in Boulder County is publicly controlled. That's over half of the county. What an incredible waste. That's land that needs to be maintained, too. But guess what? the county is running out of money to maintain the gobs and gobs of land it already owns. AND YET THEY BUY MORE!!! It's insanity.

hmmm. sounds like a valid point. I would be the first to recognize that at some point the diminishing marginal returns of more open space will make the continued purchase of land a bit silly...

However, I know nothing about where its going or where it is at currently.

My general bias is that growth is fine when managed properly, and I also like buffers between towns... So I like open space. It also encourages smart use of land within the boundaries (like efficient mass transit programs, which have all sorts of benefits).

However, like all good things, it can be taken to far. perhaps you should run for office sacky and attempt to remedy the situation? :smile2: Or start an organization/lobbying group ( I am betting you could get quite a few disparate groups on your side).

 

[Duff Man]

First things first. yes the taxpayers passed the open space tax. It was passed more on inertia than anything. Anybody who votes for such a thing at this point has no idea of the negative impact this tax has on the health of the county. The enviro-nazis in the City of Boulder have decided that open space taxes will be passed without question every time the question comes up. So we're stuck with it. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it worthwhile.

You can continue to think that enviro-Nazis are the biggest reason open space taxes pass, but people like open space. And no, not everyone who votes for open space taxes (i.e, a lot of damn people) are stupid.

Here's my beef (I actually have several of them) with the entire program. It was started in the early 70's as a way to keep BOULDER (not necessarily Boulder County, just Boulder) a stand-alone community. Fine. That mission was accomplished about 25 years ago. Since then, it's been a blank check for the county to gobble up private land and enforce it's land use agenda on the rest of the county. The benefits of the open space program are far outweighed by the costs, and are concentrated in the hands of very few, while the entire county foots the bill. Furthermore, every time the county buys up a parcel of land, it takes that land off the county tax rolls, which reduces the revenue back to the county for things like social services, roads, law enforcement, etc. This basic premise is completely lost on dipsh!ts like Ron Stewart, who never saw an empty piece of land that he didn't want to buy. Finally, I can't remember the exact number, but something like 400,000 acres in Boulder County is publicly controlled. That's over half of the county. What an incredible waste. That's land that needs to be maintained, too. But guess what? the county is running out of money to maintain the gobs and gobs of land it already owns. AND YET THEY BUY MORE!!! It's insanity.

I will not disagree that there are drawbacks to open space preservation (your point about land being taken off the tax rolls is well taken), but I absolutely disagree with your assertion that growth management "was accomplished 25 years ago." It is an ongoing process.

You can continue to rail against open space all you want, but it is here to stay. Even freaking Arapahoe County has a dedicated sales tax for open space, albeit with a sunset provision. It is a fact of life in Colorado. Open space is not evil; in fact, it has many positive aspects. Healthier communities and protection of scenic viewsheds are just a couple.

 

[sackman]

You can continue to think that enviro-Nazis are the biggest reason open space taxes pass, but people like open space. And no, not everyone who votes for open space taxes (i.e, a lot of damn people) are stupid.



I will not disagree that there are drawbacks to open space preservation (your point about land being taken off the tax rolls is well taken), but I absolutely disagree with your assertion that growth management "was accomplished 25 years ago." It is an ongoing process.

You can continue to rail against open space all you want, but it is here to stay. Even freaking Arapahoe County has a dedicated sales tax for open space, albeit with a sunset provision. It is a fact of life in Colorado. Open space is not evil; in fact, it has many positive aspects. Healthier communities and protection of scenic viewsheds are just a couple.

I wouldn't dispute that, but the benefits were realized a long, long time ago. Boulder County will NEVER turn down an open space tax because the voters in Boulder will ALWAYS pass it, regardless of how counterproductive it is. It was a great idea - 30 years ago. We don't need to be spending upwards of $5MM on mountain properties that would never be developed anyway. Yet, we continue to do so. And even if these properties were developed, the impact on 99.99999% of the residents in Boulder County would be nill. So who benefits? The guy who owns the property that sells to the County, that's who. So the county has basically become a conduit for taxpayer dollars to go into landowners hands. Ain't life grand? The amazing thing is that the three headed monster known as the Boulder County Commissioners is completely clueless as to what the program has morphed into. For them, it's a blank check to buy up as much land as possible. That's real leadership, right there.

 

[Buffarino]

The biggest issue with Boulder politically is the fervor in which the raging liberals in this town - and there are a lot of them - more or less crucify people with differing opinions. People here get WAAAY carried away with that kind of stuff. The attitude is, more or less, if you aren't very left of center, not only are you wrong, but you are a horrible human being and deserve to be chastised extensively. You can count on the people that know the least to project this mentality the most, ironically.

I'm sorry, but there's nothing really "progressive" about that.

My sister lives in north Boulder and I know she agrees with you 100%. She has told me countless stories on the subject, and I know there are many others she has not shared with me. If she could convince her husband to move they'd get out of town and come to SE Denver, but his business is based in Boulder, so it's not quite that easy.

And then there's the people who are just flat-out crazy.

 

[Buffarino]

I wonder how many Colorado kids go to Texas schools?

I did. And while I agree Texans are great people, for the most part, they do have huge egos on them related to being Texans.

Let me put it this way - most people in Colorado are Americans first, Coloradoans second. Most born and bred Texans I've met are Texans first.