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ESPN.com Big 12 Preview

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by Sexton Hardcastle, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Big 12 ShootAround: High expectations for a league that retained its star power

    ESPN.com



    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/notebook?page=notebook/shootaround/big12
     
  2. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    I feel we should wait until the season ends before we decide to extend or not. It might be risky, but I don't want to see the AD just toss money at Bzdeliks' feet for nothing. And lets face it, he hasn't done a thing yet.
     
  3. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I'm sure it would be easier for Bzdelik to stay at CU if that basketball practice facility gets built. Once that happens, CU is no longer at a recruiting disadvantage when it comes to basketball.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I hope the issues we're having with Hawkins don't gut both programs. We still need boosters to step up for the basketball facilities.

    As far as an extension for Coach Bzdelik, he wouldn't sign one right now anyway. Unless he sees the team turning the corner this year to go along with facilities improvements he was promised, he's gone.
     
  5. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    As he should be. The performance on the court is completely and totally on him. He can't escape that. But no ground broken for a practice facility and I wouldn't blame him for bolting no matter how this season goes.
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    You'll get no argument from me.

    Bzdelik's a stand-up guy. If he doesn't see significant on-court progress this year, he'll say that he's not the right guy for the job. And he's going to hold Bohn and the boosters to the same standard. Fair enough.
     
  7. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Suppose CU isn't able to get going on the basketball practice facility, shouldn't we go ahead and sweeten the pot with Buzz to entice him to stay at CU?

    I understand that CU fans would not be too receptive to Mike Bohn extending another coach's contract but Buzz, when you compare him to Hawk, is more of a proven coach than Hawk.
     
  8. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    He is? Really? How do you figure?
     
  9. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Are you serious? I can't tell if you're joking. :huh:
     
  10. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Buzz has won at Air Force and is taking over quite possibly the worst program in the conference with limited facilities and resources..


    Hawk is a coach of a program that has .600 winning percentage in its history..


    Its a big difference..
     
  11. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    In all fairness, Bz walked into a good situation at AF. Joe Scott laid down the foundation for Jeff's success. I've been corrected on that many times. :lol:
     
  12. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Scott did a good job there, but Air Force wasn't like some program where you just roll the ball out and all these wins follow.. Coach B did a great job coaching those teams up for the 2 years he was there. Where's Air Force been since he's left?



    Disappointing year last year for Coach B no doubt, but the guy can coach. I would not be against an extension for Coach B at this point..
     
  13. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    True. Not trying to take anything away from Jeff. He's a great coach. The only question mark imo is his recruiting.
     
  14. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Gotta give Coach B some time. Colorado is not going to land big time prospects in basketball.. They are going to have to hit on some below the radar players to turn this around..
     
  15. dyemeduke

    dyemeduke Well-Known Member

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    I don't know Jimmy. I agree with you that CU doesn't really garner top prospects, but I don't think Bz has shown he can really pull in top players either. I think Patton did a great job of getting players that had we had no business even looking at, seriously looking at CU - Q Richardson, Larry O' Bannon, etc. Even Jose Winston, Mosely and Pelle were top 100 recruits according to some lists. Bz...Witherspoon I guess had us on some lists, but I don't think we were ever seriously in the running. I do like his last recruiting class, but he didn't pull in a true big (Tunks is not a true force inside) that we need. This year, recruiting is slow, and it looks like our top targets (Kirk and Mayes) may go elsewhere...

    I like Bz...but he needs players.
     
  16. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Both Bzz and Hawk came from lower tier programs where they inherited teams that already were successful. That's their pedigree. Seems nearly identical to me.
     
  17. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Sure, but Bz has been in the business longer, and did it on the top level as well. He's a great coach.
     
  18. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I get the feeling that Buzz will outlast Hawkins and the WBB coach if he sticks around.
     
  19. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    His overall NBA record stands at a stellar 73-119. He had one season where he finished a whopping 4 games over .500 and he "did it at the top level"? :huh:

    He had 6.5 years of head coaching experience at any level prior to taking over the CU job. Hawkins, OTOH, had 10 years head coaching experience prior to coming to CU.

    The only think Hawkins doesn't have on his resume that Bzz does have is experience at the professional level. Otherwise, the two careers look remarkably similar. The vast majority of Bzdelik's experience in the NBA was as a scout.

    Don't get me wrong, I hope he is a huge success at CU. I hope he is able to bring that program up to the level of the best in the conference. I think that would be fantastic. But let's not **** all over ourselves and say he's got a far more impressive resume than Hawk has/had.
     
  20. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Do a little more research. Numbers will only tell you half of the story.
     
  21. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Very true about that...what Buzz did to the Nugs was remarkable given how the Nugs were before he came aboard. :thumbsup:
     
  22. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    Ah ****. I thought for sure we'd all learned to ignore Sacky in the hoops forum last season. :smile2:
     
  23. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Before this gets too far off base, this was the original comment that I had issue with.

    Now, having compared his coaching history to that of Hawk, I still don't see much of a difference. Is somebody going to show me differently? What, exactly, has Bzz "proven" that Hawk has not?

    On Valdez' advice, I've done some more research. I found that his one winning season at the Nuggets just happened to coincide with Carmelo Anthony coming to Denver.
     
  24. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    And Buzz succeeded at AFA...that in itself alone is very telling. If you are to compare Buzz at AFA to Hawk at BSU, I'd take Buzz in this case becuase BSU is the most talented team in the WAC while AFA isn't going to be always the most talented team in the MWC. You have New Mexico and UNLV which are the basketball hotbeds of that conference.
     
  25. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Both came into situations where the players and system were already in place. They replaced other coaches who had already turned the programs around.
     
  26. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Don't discount Bz being in the big tent for so many years.

    He was an assistant in the Big 10 at Northwestern for 6 years.

    He had 6 years as an NBA assistant with the Washington Bullets.

    He had 7 years as an NBA assistant under Pat Riley with the Knicks and Heat.

    He was then an NBA assistant with the Nuggets for a year and HC for another 2+.

    This is in addition to being an assistant at mid-major Davidson, head coach at small college University Maryland - Baltimore County, and head coach at Air Force.

    So we're looking at a guy that had 10+ years of college experience at the small college, mid-major and BCS conference level as an assistant and/or head coach. All this to go along with 15+ years of assistant and head coaching experience in the NBA. Then he took the CU job.

    Hawkins had 3 years as an assistant at UC-Davis, 2 years as a HS coach, 3 years as an OC at Siskiyous, 1 year as a DC at Sonoma State, 5 years as a head coach at Willamette, 3 years as a Boise State assistant, and 5 years as Boise State's head coach.

    If someone wants to say that they both had resumes that suggested that they would be good hires at CU, I'm cool with that. But Bzdelik's resume blows Hawkins' out of the water.
     
  27. dyemeduke

    dyemeduke Well-Known Member

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    someone else brought up the point, but AFA declined when Bz left while BSU is doing quite well under Peterson, who was supposedly the brains behind Hawk's operation. Also, Bz did have Melo, but that team was not that great. He did a wonderful job with what he had with the Nuggets - if you followed them, you'd understand.

    Bz has a better track record in all areas of coaching (aside from recruiting) than Hawk.
     
  28. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    Having guys like Pat Riley and Wes Unseld as references doesn't hurt either.

    Bzz is more established in his profession than Hawk is in his. If Bzz leaves or gets canned he'll get an assistant job in the NBA no problem, and a head coaching stint wouldn't be a stretch. I doubt anyone from the NFL or a BCS conference will be calling Hawk anytime soon considering his record at CU so far.

    Right now neither has really proved anything at CU yet. Both have introduced offensive schemes that were just too complex for the personell they had, although it sounds like Bzz may be changing this. (Hopefully)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  29. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    Bz was not my first choice for the job, but the logic made sense. what you see with Bz is other coaches complement him for doing more with less, playing tough games when over-matched, and the litany of praise he got at AFA (though, it was with Scott's jr and senior classes)....they destroyed CU, Stanford and some other "big league" teams.

    with Hawk, you rarely (I can't think of a single time, outside maybe last year's NU game) where his ability to coach has been praised by an opposing coach. you don't see Coach X say, "wow, we won but Hawk really had us sweating with that...." or "you prepare for it, but it's not like live action".

    and it's not just about losing, Greg McDermott at ISU has been an underwhelming hire thus far after a stellar career at Northern Iowa (much like Hawk at Boise).....but, even though ISU loses, McDermott is often praised by opposing coaches in the press as a great X and O guy and it's too consistent to just be coach-speak for say something nice about the guys you just ran out of the gym. Hawk, ?

    given the available info at the time, Hawk was the right hire.....turns out however he may not have been a "good" hire.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  30. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    So do we now have the talent to run this offense Bz wants to install? Or is it because of our poor play last season?

    I know our guys are young, but I'm interested in everyone's take on this.
     

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