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For all you playoff fans

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by MtnBuff, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    FCS playoffs are under way.

    Fans of playoffs keep saying that you can keep it down to the few teams that deserve to be there. When the FCS started the playoffs were 8 teams, then jumped to 12, then to 16 and now to 20.

    Nobody can convince me that a team that had the 17the best season deserves a shot at the national championship in any sport but this year the 19th best team will be in the final eight. Yes the team that came in ranked #2 based on a solid consistent season throughout gets knocked out in one game by a team that was not even considered one of the top 16 teams.

    Try to convince me that if the BCS level schools go to a playoff that we won't soon hear the whining, sniveling little bitches crying that 8 teams aren't enough, 12 isn't enough, 16 isn't enough. Pretty soon we will have the fiasco that the BB tourney is with teams that barely go .500 in their own leagues in it, with teams that haven't beaten a single other decent team all year in it.

    Why do we even bother with a regular season. Just call it an exhibition season, throw everyone into a tourney and bitch when a solid team has one off day and gets knocked out by some team that manages to play a few decent games a year.
     
  2. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    I agree that you would have the whining for more teams but there has to be some way of improving this. I keep hearing the Bowl lovers and certain espn honks saying they don't need to know who the best team is. Huh? If that's the case, get rid of all the tournaments and playoffs then.

    Look, imho, if you can do this at all other levels, it can be done.
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I enjoy bowl games.

    But I'm also liking this Villanova vs. App State game right now. Nova looks like it could join the Big East and hold its own in football.
     
  4. buff4bcs1985

    buff4bcs1985 Hail to the King

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    why not have the play off and the bowls... the big 4 host the playoffs... and the regulars bowls are the nit
     
  5. bombay

    bombay Club Member Club Member

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    Love to see a sixteen team playoff based on the current bcs scoring system. The top 16 teams with no conference tie ins. This year Boise, TCU, and Nevada would make it outside of BCS conference schools. Seed them and have 1st round games on campus. Shuffle teams by a spot if a game would be a rematch between conference foes.

    Play the rest of the bowl games as they exist now.
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I think we'll see that if we ever have 4 16-team superconferences. Each of the superconferences would do a 2-round playoff. The 4 champions would then do a 2-round playoff to determine the national champion. Everyone else would go to bowl games.
     
  7. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    Bull ****ing ****, there is no argument that can convince me a playoff will not work. Answer me this, why is major college the only sport in the WORLD without a playoff? Any argument against it is utter crap.
     
  8. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    There's more money to be made with the bowl system.

    That, my friend, is the argument that will always trump the others.
     
  9. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Huh. That's false. Playoff $$>>bowl $. you can still have the ****ty bowls, but the playoffs would be a cash cow to dwarf the bcs
     
  10. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    Riiiiight and a well structured playoff along with bowls if need be cannot be profitable? Gimme a break. That little thing called March Madness seems to do ok.
     
  11. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Yep. They're all just leaving money on the table. This is true because we know that the NCAA and its member institutions always choose tradition over money.
     
  12. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    English Premier League, La Liga and Serie A say hello. Lots of sports around the world don't use playoff systems because they're more interested in giving the title of champion to the best team rather than going for maximum excitement for fans. It's really a matter of preference but don't fool yourself that a playoff system would determine the best team more often than the current system. In fact, it wouldn't come close.
     
  13. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    OK, so the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB should not have playoffs because they do not determine the best team in each league..... :wow: :rofl:

    And if soccer does not, gives me one more reason to hate that lame-ass piece of **** sport
     
  14. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    Not if you're trying to determine who the best team is. Like it or not, there is a TON of randomness in sports, particularly in baseball and hockey but also in baskeball and football. Because of that, the bigger the sample size, the better. I'm a big Giants fan and was really excited they won the World Series, but were they really the best team in baseball this year? Of course not. Were the NY Giants a better team than a Patriots team that was 18-0 (including having already beaten the Giants) going into the 2008 Super Bowl? Certainly not. These teams won fair and square in an exciting fashion but don't fool yourself into thinking they were the best teams in their league those years.
     
  15. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    I'm for a playoff but only in a small capacity, preferably 4 teams. That way the entire regular season means something, which makes college football unique among all the other sports/leagues. Keep all the bowls in place so all these other teams still get a postseason game, although it certainly wouldn't hurt to cut down on the ridiculous number of bowl games.
     
  16. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    This argument undermines all sports, so what you're are saying is toss out all playoffs and crown a beauty queen at the end of the season.

    Forget the World Cup and crown Brazil the winner every 4 years or whatever it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Baseball's definitely a weird one. What it takes to be successful over 162 games is very different that being successful when playing a best of 7 format. For the latter, 2 hot starting pitchers and a strong bullpen means that you're probably the favorite no matter what the rest of your team looks like.

    Hockey is that way too. If a team's got a hot goalie, upsets of much better teams in head-to-head series isn't unusual at all. So much so that I don't even know if you can call them upsets.

    I enjoy playoffs. But I'm not certain that they deliver the 2 best teams playing for the championship as well as the BCS system does.
     
  18. buff4bcs1985

    buff4bcs1985 Hail to the King

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    if you want to keep the current system... there is only one way i see it work... no preseason rankings and no top 25's until the first month of the season is done... they are too hard to unseat once a team is entrenched in the rankings themselves and too hard to climb into the race if you are expected to be awful
     
  19. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    That is sports my friend, upsets happen, players get hot, etc. etc. THAT'S what makes it great. The BCS is BS, didn't some statistician **** up his numbers last week that flip-flopped two teams position? What a joke!!!!
     
  20. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    your condescending answer above has no merit my friend. Playoffs would bring in a ridiculous amount of money. Tradition and other such foggyness are the reason why Div 1 football doesn't have a playoff, not the money. Find me a credible site that says that the member instituions wouldn't make more money in a playoff system. I don't think you can.
     
  21. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    Like I said it's exciting for us fans to do it that way and largely because of that it is extremely profitable for the leagues. So it's really a matter of preference. Do you want maximum excitement or do you want to award it to the best team? I really like the BCS because it combines the two. You get the two most deserving teams in the championship game AND you get excitement. What more can you ask for as a fan than a matchup of the two best teams in a game for all the marbles?

    The only adjustment I would make to the BCS is to bring back margin of victory into the computer portion. You can cap it somewhere between 14 and 20 to prevent coaches from running the score up but I think it's pretty important and the main reason the computers sometimes come up with bizarre rankings.

    I'd also be ok with a "plus 1" format but anything close to a 16 team playoff would be a travesty IMO.
     
  22. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    maximum excitement
     
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Let's say that we have a 16-team playoff. That's 15 games to decide a championship. We currently have 35 bowl games. You're either giving up 20 games or relegating them to the TV relevance of the NIT. Right now "Bowl Season" is the event.

    This one does a good job of analyzing a lot of the issues: http://www.alexmeske.com/Essays/cfbisfine1.htm

    This one concisely explains the financials that are at play and won't be given up: http://thebusinessofsports.blogspot.com/

    Basically, we have a system that is making people a **** ton of money. A playoff puts that at risk. Can you guarantee that the Championship Game would pull a bigger rating than the BCS Championship game? Can you guarantee that the semifinal round games would pull a bigger rating than the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl? Can you guarantee that the quarterfinal round games would pull a bigger rating than the Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Cotton Bowl & Capital One Bowls? What about all the money those bowl games bring to the communities that host them and make them part of an annual event that includes parades, charitable causes, etc... what replaces that? As I said earlier, what about all of the other bowl games and their continued existence since they all currently make a lot of money?
     
  24. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Not much of a risk...

    As to the championship game: Let's call that a wash ratings wise. There are arguments on either side, but I think the ratings would be be bigger (playoffs sure don't hurt the superbowl ratings, just build excitement for it). But for the sake of argument, its a wash.

    Can you guarantee that the semifinal round games would pull a bigger rating than the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl?

    Pretty much, yes. Because those games would then mean something besides a pretty trophy. They would have national title implications. That would generate more interest. Which would generate more $.


    Can you guarantee that the quarterfinal round games would pull a bigger rating than the Fiesta Bowl, Orange Bowl, Cotton Bowl & Capital One Bowls?

    yes. Same reasoning as above. Those games go from "maybe watch" to "Must watch" for most college football fans.

    What about all the money those bowl games bring to the communities that host them and make them part of an annual event that includes parades, charitable causes, etc... what replaces that?

    Umm... those games are still happening. Why would this change?


    As I said earlier, what about all of the other bowl games and their continued existence since they all currently make a lot of money?

    Why do they have to go? What changes for them? They have no importance to anyone but the teams in them now. Under a playoff, their status would be the exact same. So ya, an argument saying this would damage those bowl games makes no sense to me. They are worthless now, and they will be worthless then. Except to ESPN, who will pay to put them on TV. playoff games can only take up so much of the day...


    How do you honestly believe that adding national championship implications and stretching the decision process out over December wouldn't add $$ to the coffers? Ya, the BCS makes a lot more money than the previous iteration of the bowl system. That said, the playoff system would give the teams involved THREE WEEKS of huge games instead of 1. It would be near as big a jump from the BCS system as the BCS system was from the original bowl system.
     
  25. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    College football has tremendous ratings througout the season. Why is this? Because in terms of a championship every game matters. College basketball on the other hand is an excercise in tedium until at least mid-February. Nobody cares, among the top teams individual losses don't matter.

    Yes the NCAA tourney is fun and gets great ratings. It is also very easy looking at the champions over the past years (since they have gone to 64 in fact) and say it does a pathetic job of determining who the best team was that year. It only determines who got hot and got the favorable bracket draws for that particular tournament.

    College football is a great sport, intrigue every week, interesting from start to finish. I don't see any way that a playoff makes it better and a lot of ways it makes it worse.
    I can also say without question that football does a better job (not perfect but better) of crowning the best team for that year than basketball does, or in fact the pro sports and others with playoffs.
     
  26. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Another straw man argument. Like every game doesn't matter if only 8 or 16 teams out of 120 make the playoffs!
     
  27. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Huge risk,

    You gain marginal ratings improvements for a few bowl/playoff games and in exchange make the whole season much less relevant meaning less interest and significantly lower ratings. Compare the ratings for NCAA regular season basketball to the tourney, huge gap. If you get even a fraction of this drop in interest for regular season football you lose huge amounts of money. Plus you end up with bogus champions who won after have much less than championship seasons.

    A three loss team seeded 14 gets hot while an undefeated team gets a bad draw and loses a couple of key players to injury and all of the sudden you have a champion that is not even deserving of being called champion.
     
  28. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Not a straw man. Sorry but the 15th best team in a season even out of 120 doesn't deserve a chance at the trophy, that makes the season a joke.
     
  29. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Like Miami in 01 (who beat kNU to be a "champion")? Or the year that undefeated auburn never played in the championship game? Etc.
     
  30. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Which is why I prefer 8 teams :smile2:. So, every sport but college football has a joke of a regular season? Except for the European soccer leagues, of course.

    Edit: I'm not done with this. What about a team that has a few injuries early and loses a game or two but gets healthy late and is clearly the best team in the country?

    And would interest DROP for more games, or go UP for more games? What would hold more interest for the public? A game featuring#8 team vs a #20 team with a playoff, or without a playoff? The former. Because the game would be more important than it is under the current system. ESPN would kill it.

    And for a late season game featuring a #2 v a #5 team, well, seeding is pretty important isn't it?

    I don't buy your "devalue the regular season argument. Hell, I think it would make it MORE valuable by adding value to otherwise less important games.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010

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