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Forman's Challenge: Bulking up the Buffs

It's easier to condition and lose weight than it is to gain it. The buffs looked a bit skinny last year. There is a lot to work on though and football is a game where you need strength and power (those are trained differently fyi). Agility and flexibility are also major factors.

What does suck about not getting the high 3 stars and above is usually they aren't as physically ready. It's not all about genetics. A lot of the top rated players are playing at places with s good S&C coach in HS. They don't have to shed as much belly fat as guys that come from lesser HSs.

Put it this way. The body wants to specialize. Power lifters look different than sprinters and look who look different than long distance types and football players.

I guess it's that time of year where we talk about the weight room :/
 
I think Blacken was one guy from the previous staff that most were hoping we kept. Seemed like decent results from his program. That being said, I don't feel like Forman is in over his head or is a bad S&C coach as is being implied by SlyStone

That's where I've been. I liked Blacken. I like Forman. My impression is that Forman lacks the depth of Blacken's experience but is more innovative. There's good and bad with that, since new ideas aren't always the best ideas. But I've felt like the program was in capable hands for a while. Heck, as much as I didn't like Pittman, he did get re-hired at Boise State for the 2014 season and seemed to do just fine.
 
That's where I've been. I liked Blacken. I like Forman. My impression is that Forman lacks the depth of Blacken's experience but is more innovative. There's good and bad with that, since new ideas aren't always the best ideas. But I've felt like the program was in capable hands for a while. Heck, as much as I didn't like Pittman, he did get re-hired at Boise State for the 2014 season and seemed to do just fine.

His style seemed pretty old school. Probably worked in the Big 12 back then. Would not have worked in the Pac-12 though.
 
A HUGE ommission in that post was the injuries under Blacken and to a lesser extent Hawk's guy. I think there is a reasonable correlation between injuries on-field and off-field training (weight, stretching, etc.) and Blacken seemed to want to jump right into a program that the players physically were not ready for the NFL regiment that Blacken used as the base of his training.

Blacken did make the weight room a lot nicer though. Before Blacken it was just a white, dreary ass room. I think Blacken is a good S&C coach, but I don't think he geared his philosophy to 18-24 year old's and all the challenges that brings to the table that you don't have to face at the NFL level.

Racist!!

Seriously though, I think a lot of times the popularity of the S&C coach is somewhat correlated to winning and injuries which is probably not totally fair. We've had a lot of losing and a lot of injuries lately, so human nature is to blame someone. I honestly have no idea if Forman is good or not, but I was excited about him when he came over from Stanford.
 
Orr..no agenda as i have no horse in the race..but i have seen enough S and C programs at top 50 programs to have some perspective on where CU is in this facet of the game..I applaud the fact that the new CU facility will have an upgraded weight room and nutritional areas, but as i mentioned..this aspect of the game is a moving target..a fast moving target at that. Besides upgrading the pay for coordinators and assistants, next on the list of importance is the S and C program. The amount of $$ spent on S and C facilities, staff and nutrition is mind boggling http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/022713aaf.html...another way to frame things is to look into what top nfl players do in the off season..a mcchesney type of program..hell, the best high school kids are doing that type of program starting in 9th grade..especially the OL and DL guys. I agree with the comments that the hawk-embree recruits didnt buy into what forman was selling...but, the fact that Mac has invited mcchesney into the program to specialize on this aspect of training [OL and DL guys] tells me that Mac realizes that Forman's course of action wasnt getting it done for the big guys in the program--imagine samson at 6'4" and a solid 275 lbs flying around at DE as opposed to the 225-240lb variety that CU has now..Gillam at 225 lbs in the middle doesnt work...he is a hell of a linebacker..but he needs some meat on dem bones..granted he had a tough season between concussions and illness..but at 6'3" and 240lbs..he would project as a nfl'er...these kids arent stupid..they know whats up also...Blacken wasnt perfect, in fact he and jake [now head guy at villanova] and steve [ who is now working with the girls soccer team and has a brother who is an nfl S and C guy] appealed to the guys in the program who were further along in the S and C aspect of things. To summarize, I applaud Mac's ability to recognize that the OL and DL guys need to get stronger without losing agility and quickness..that is where the functional aspect of the program is key--I just think it is tough to digest that the last couple of seasons were a learn as we go type of deal for the S and C staff as far as the OL and DL guys are concerned...would love to see DBs weighing 180-190 and flash speed and quickness...CU wont become 'bama...but with the proper off season program, the Buffs can creep back into the 25-60 ranking consistently--
 
Yeah, 230-240 would be a good range for him, actually 230 is the minimum he should be IMO.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Which should give folks some perspective on how under-sized the defense was in 2014. The DEs were playing at that weight.
 
Which should give folks some perspective on how under-sized the defense was in 2014. The DEs were playing at that weight.

And don't forget Olugbode playing at 205, he was bouncing off a lot of ball carriers.
 
A couple things re: Slystone's inside post:

1. also glad HCMM has recognized this, but am I the only one surprised that Forman's background at Stanford, the land of big and beastly linemen, would result in this? Seems like Forman over-innovating?

2. Gillam's issue has been documented more as a Nutritional issue. This is where CU has to really pay attention. Are the guys getting enough nutrition? My experience is that these things fall between two extremes:

A. players live on campus all year, in an Apt with a full kitchen, but an unbelievable dining hall open 18 hours a day for the residents (all athletes), in the same building. Plus easy access to snacks, and tightly controlled supplements (Whey).

B. where after their Frosh year, they got a stipend and do their own grocery shopping and cooking, living off campus. There's no time for that! FEED THESE GUYS.
 
Wasn't this the mantra of the previous S&C coach who everyone hated?

We have this conversation every offseason. And next offseason, the buffs will be looking to gain strength in the weight room. Again.
 
Orr..no agenda as i have no horse in the race..but i have seen enough S and C programs at top 50 programs to have some perspective on where CU is in this facet of the game..I applaud the fact that the new CU facility will have an upgraded weight room and nutritional areas, but as i mentioned..this aspect of the game is a moving target..a fast moving target at that. Besides upgrading the pay for coordinators and assistants, next on the list of importance is the S and C program. The amount of $$ spent on S and C facilities, staff and nutrition is mind boggling http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/022713aaf.html...another way to frame things is to look into what top nfl players do in the off season..a mcchesney type of program..hell, the best high school kids are doing that type of program starting in 9th grade..especially the OL and DL guys. I agree with the comments that the hawk-embree recruits didnt buy into what forman was selling...but, the fact that Mac has invited mcchesney into the program to specialize on this aspect of training [OL and DL guys] tells me that Mac realizes that Forman's course of action wasnt getting it done for the big guys in the program--imagine samson at 6'4" and a solid 275 lbs flying around at DE as opposed to the 225-240lb variety that CU has now..Gillam at 225 lbs in the middle doesnt work...he is a hell of a linebacker..but he needs some meat on dem bones..granted he had a tough season between concussions and illness..but at 6'3" and 240lbs..he would project as a nfl'er...these kids arent stupid..they know whats up also...Blacken wasnt perfect, in fact he and jake [now head guy at villanova] and steve [ who is now working with the girls soccer team and has a brother who is an nfl S and C guy] appealed to the guys in the program who were further along in the S and C aspect of things. To summarize, I applaud Mac's ability to recognize that the OL and DL guys need to get stronger without losing agility and quickness..that is where the functional aspect of the program is key--I just think it is tough to digest that the last couple of seasons were a learn as we go type of deal for the S and C staff as far as the OL and DL guys are concerned...would love to see DBs weighing 180-190 and flash speed and quickness...CU wont become 'bama...but with the proper off season program, the Buffs can creep back into the 25-60 ranking consistently--

I let the first post go, but now it's a trend, so here's some advice: The return (enter) key is your friend. Please use it. From replies, it seems like you might have some good things to say, but reading from a solid block of words isn't fun. Thanks.
 
buffaholic hits the nail on the head--mandatory 3 real meals plus on a daily basis..Mr rosstr...no big deal, but as long as CU continues to deploy 220 lb DEs and 195-210 linebackers...the D wont be able to stop Pac 12 linemen or running backs..SSSHHHEEEET Sefo is bigger than some of our DEs and LBs--its just physics not my opinion and to mr gooniebuff..my bad,

I will break up the structure of my ramblings !
 
Orr..no agenda as i have no horse in the race..but i have seen enough S and C programs at top 50 programs to have some perspective on where CU is in this facet of the game..I applaud the fact that the new CU facility will have an upgraded weight room and nutritional areas, but as i mentioned..this aspect of the game is a moving target..a fast moving target at that.

Besides upgrading the pay for coordinators and assistants, next on the list of importance is the S and C program. The amount of $$ spent on S and C facilities, staff and nutrition is mind boggling http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/022713aaf.html...another way to frame things is to look into what top nfl players do in the off season..a mcchesney type of program..hell, the best high school kids are doing that type of program starting in 9th grade..especially the OL and DL guys. I agree with the comments that the hawk-embree recruits didnt buy into what forman was selling...but, the fact that Mac has invited mcchesney into the program to specialize on this aspect of training [OL and DL guys] tells me that Mac realizes that Forman's course of action wasnt getting it done for the big guys in the program--imagine samson at 6'4" and a solid 275 lbs flying around at DE as opposed to the 225-240lb variety that CU has now..Gillam at 225 lbs in the middle doesnt work...he is a hell of a linebacker..but he needs some meat on dem bones..granted he had a tough season between concussions and illness..but at 6'3" and 240lbs..he would project as a nfl'er...these kids arent stupid..they know whats up also...Blacken wasnt perfect, in fact he and jake [now head guy at villanova] and steve [ who is now working with the girls soccer team and has a brother who is an nfl S and C guy] appealed to the guys in the program who were further along in the S and C aspect of things.

To summarize, I applaud Mac's ability to recognize that the OL and DL guys need to get stronger without losing agility and quickness..that is where the functional aspect of the program is key--I just think it is tough to digest that the last couple of seasons were a learn as we go type of deal for the S and C staff as far as the OL and DL guys are concerned...would love to see DBs weighing 180-190 and flash speed and quickness...CU wont become 'bama...but with the proper off season program, the Buffs can creep back into the 25-60 ranking consistently--

Something you seem to be ignoring is youth. Other than at DT, and where Juda was needed to play there instead of Samson because of personal issues from Samson, we were extremely young. Our entire DE depth chart was underclassmen; McCartney (GS/RS-Fr.), Gilbert (So.), Shaver (Fr. - not playing DE next year primarily), Frazier (RS-Fr.), Coleman (RS-Fr.), Wilson (RS-So.). That right there is the biggest issue with the weight program. The LB depth chart is the same, and Gillam getting sick before the season really hurt him because he lost a ton of weight and couldn't put it back on due to the timing of his sickness.

This program has been void of upperclassmen almost every year because of attrition, so that does not allow players to get in the program for years and instead we are playing a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds who haven't matured a ton and haven't had 3-4 years of college S&C versus grown ass men, a good amount of whom are going to get a shot in the NFL, which is a 180 from high school. Forman's program is completely open to getting bigger and stronger, but he isn't going to let a kid just jump right in without having the correct basics of lifting. Doing that reduces injury from lifting that tends to transfer over to losing players to injury during the season, which was something that Blacken struggled with heavily. The guys who have been in the program the entire time; like Crawley, Tupou, Solis, etc. have gotten bigger and more powerful. It's a tall task to expect non-BC recruits to come in physically ready to play at the D1 level. Having to play a bunch of young guys, who aren't physically ready also poses other developmental issues. Instead of redshirting and putting on muscle and overall developing, they are being forced to play and you simply can't dedicate the season to bulk when you are playing every week trying to recover from injuries and keep your body going through the long grind that is the season. Don't take this as me saying that I am opposed to young bucks playing, but we shouldn't have a depth chart full of young bucks playing, yet.

2015 is the season where Forman earns his paycheck. We were a very sophomore/freshman skewed last year, those guys are almost entirely back and will be entering their 3rd full year and this is when we should see the jump in size, strength, power, and speed. You can also bring the culture into this, we will also find out if what MacIntyre and Co. have been preaching to the team over the last 3 years is working or not. We've brought in JUCO's to provide hopefully quality depth and with that comes competition so we should also see more gains from the players because of the competition aspect and playing time.

Returning Players on the DL with PT
  • McCartney - 6'3" 240
  • Gilbert - 6'4" 230
  • Frazier - 6'1" 240
  • Coleman - 6'2" 250
  • Wilson - 6'3" 250
  • Tupuo - 6'3" 325
  • Solis - 6'1" 305
  • Kofavalu - 6'5" 245 (not sure how accurate this one is)
  • Lopez - 6'4" 300

Incoming DL JUCO's
  • Carrell - 6'3" 275
  • Robbins - 6'5" 260

We have some freshman coming in such as Fehoko, but this is finally a year where he won't have to play if he isn't ready (assuming relatively low injuries at the position) and that we will have some older players providing depth.
 
'Tini's point of youth is important. Compound that with most of these guys are not high 3*+...meaning they would be more likely to be physically able to start as frosh.

Next year is important, but 2016 is shaping up to be a breakthrough year...tons of upperclassmen in the same system for 4 years.
 
Are we bulking up considerably with the JUCO DL transfers?

3 DLs plus the returns of Samson and Henington make the Buffs a lot bigger this spring. Hopefully some of the depth (Norgard et al) as well as the DEs and LBs can put on 10-15 from last year's listed weights (some guys more). If all that happens, Buffs won't be undersized.
 
Carrell is a beast. I view him as a difference maker from day 1.

When considering the 2015 defense, I am assuming that Carrell is an upgrade over Juda in the same role.

That puts the defensive losses as:

Gregory Henderson -- tough one. I'll be watching closely this spring to see whether Spoon emerges, Chido slides to corner or if there's some other guy who makes a leap and takes the spot. Might Devin Ross take his speed to the defensive side given the numbers at WR in his class and his position on the depth chart?

Woodson Greer -- Shaver (and probably Hasselbach, maybe Gilbert) are expected to get more time at OLB to take over those snaps. I don't think we'll lose much here. If anything, I think it's a wash on pass coverage and run defense with an upgrade to the blitz package.

Terrel Smith -- Played a lot of snaps, but much of that was due to injury. We'll know how well Bell returns from injury in fall camp. White is the guy who needs to make a step up in spring. Mosley's got one last chance to pull it together, too, coming off his injury. Surprise here might be the walk-on Moeller, who looked very active and effective when forced into action as a RS-Frosh at the end of last season.

Brady Daigh -- Run stopper who was a savior with the Gillam injuries. Can Watanabe be ready by fall camp to play this year instead of redshirting? Could Falo give something as a true frosh? Is Gamboa going to take advantage of offseason S&C to work himself into the mix? Will Rippy be a waste of a roster spot or become a contributor, especially for the ST units?

KT Tu'umalo -- Special teams LB who provided some depth and experience. Talianko and Severson should more than fill that role while also giving the defense something against passing teams.

The defense is set up to improve... significantly.
 
A couple things re: Slystone's inside post:

1. also glad HCMM has recognized this, but am I the only one surprised that Forman's background at Stanford, the land of big and beastly linemen, would result in this? Seems like Forman over-innovating?

2. Gillam's issue has been documented more as a Nutritional issue. This is where CU has to really pay attention. Are the guys getting enough nutrition? My experience is that these things fall between two extremes:

A. players live on campus all year, in an Apt with a full kitchen, but an unbelievable dining hall open 18 hours a day for the residents (all athletes), in the same building. Plus easy access to snacks, and tightly controlled supplements (Whey).

B. where after their Frosh year, they got a stipend and do their own grocery shopping and cooking, living off campus. There's no time for that! FEED THESE GUYS.
Meals on Wheels, baby!
 
Isn't there a limit to the rate of weight gain after which the benefits are diminished? I would think you have to develop the strength to handle the weight. You also want to maintain athleticism. Just putting on "fat" won't cut it either.
 
Isn't there a limit to the rate of weight gain after which the benefits are diminished? I would think you have to develop the strength to handle the weight. You also want to maintain athleticism. Just putting on "fat" won't cut it either.
No, there is no limit. Ever.
 
We need to get our team on that Pacific Northwest salmon that the Seahawks are eating. :wink2:
 
Isn't there a limit to the rate of weight gain after which the benefits are diminished? I would think you have to develop the strength to handle the weight. You also want to maintain athleticism. Just putting on "fat" won't cut it either.
I would think a guy's frame would limit it, but men are still growing pretty significantly between 19 and 22, so I wouldn't put a limit on it. Please note my extensive knowledge in physiology and kinesiology :lol:
 
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