1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Good article in the Post today about High School sports in Colorado

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by dio, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    30,085
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    http://www.denverpost.com/preps/ci_19465830



    I know we have a thread on this stuff floating around, but I couldn't find it.
     
  2. aik

    aik Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,862
    Likes Received:
    622
    One thing that always struck me after moving here was that the private schools were allowed in the same state playoffs as the public, neighborhood schools. Is there simply not enough population in the state to mandate separate governing bodies? I always thought Mullen and Valor and their ilk should have asterisks put on their championships because they could recruit and others could not.
     
  3. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,144
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    There is no such thing as a good Post article.
     
  4. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    11,839
    Likes Received:
    809
    Logan was way ahead of the curve recruiting kids to play at Chatfield and A-West before he got to Mullen.
     
  5. kalbuff

    kalbuff New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    4
    That is not true.

    And it bears noting that when I was in high school in Denver, the Catholic schools DID have their own league. This is the way I understand it in most big cities as well although God knows things have changed. In the old days the Catholic schools would get pummeled by public schools. In Chicago and Philly, however, that was flip flopped. That's the reason Notre Dame was so good decades ago because the Catholic kids went there and played football and they were often the best players. Now the Catholic kids go to Florida State and have a good time.
     
  6. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,489
    Likes Received:
    605
    I think you are way off on that. Why shouldn't the private schools be able to be in the state playoffs....the parents of those kids pay school taxes just like everyone else. With Colorado's open enrollment policies there really are no neighborhood schools anymore. Look at Lendale White going to Chatfield...he went from one public school to another.
     
  7. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    954
    being from texas - I agree with how ****ed up high school sports are here in Colorado... basically a private school is like a club team playing against kids at a school that might not make a team at another school. This crap of schools playing up or down in certain sports needs to stop also - CHSAA needs to make schools play in the div./conf. depending on student count and that is that. There are to many schools playing up or down to pad state championships
     
    aik likes this.
  8. KingPants

    KingPants Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,416
    Likes Received:
    153
    That's not really the same. He went cross district. He was at South HS in the DPS, then went to Chatfield. He had to prove he lived in the chatfield district (or move in). You can open enroll within most districts, but you can't just cross districts because you want to. (Although i am sure that there was recruiting going on there by Logan, as he also got the QB who ended up at KSU to go to chatfield at the same time).
     
  9. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    30,085
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Didn't they change the rules after Logan's stint at Chatfield?
     
  10. Tempe_Buff

    Tempe_Buff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    73
    http://www.denverpost.com/preps/ci_19471426

    New article today. Kind of the same stuff but mostly about just Valor.

    Honestly if I was a coach or athletic director at any school, I would refuse to play them. It's obvious they are recruiting players from all over Colorado and then paying for their tuition. How does a school in 4 years have 9 CHSAA violations? They just say their spreading the word of God and winning games for Jesus.

    Valor is independent, no one has to play them. Get every school to just refuse to play. Or do what Littleton did and just forfeit on game day.
     
  11. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,430
    Slightly off topic, but I'll chime in based on my own experiences. At BHS, the football team stinks. There's no other way to put it. They *might* get a solid player like Ty Littlehales or Will Pericak once every 3-4 years. They have a running back named Demetrius Kennedy who is something special now. But the rest of the team is terrible. The high schools in Boulder are steadily shrinking. Fewer and fewer people can both afford to have kids and live in Boulder. The demographics of Boulder are changing rapidly. So having Boulder try to put a respectable football team on the field is asking a bit much. They can field smaller teams, like basketball, swimming, wrestling, etc. But football is an entirely different animal. I've said for years that BHS and FHS should be allowed to be in the same district with the other schools in Boulder County (Monarch, Centaurus, Longmont, Skyline, Niwot, Silver Creek). I even spoke with the BHS principal about it - and he seemed to have no idea that there were other schools outside of Boulder and Fairview in Boulder County (sigh).

    Long story short - Colorado High School sports, and football in particular, is totally messed up. It's not governed well, and that's why we're in the situation we're in.
     
  12. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,489
    Likes Received:
    605
    You need to read up on Colorado Open Enrollment. It is no different, you can enroll in another district through open enrollment with no requirement of you living within the district. Lendale White commuted every day. So enlighten me on how it is different.
     
  13. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,489
    Likes Received:
    605
    Longmont, Niwot, Skyline and Silver Creek are all in the St. Vrain Valley School District and not in Boulder Valley SD. What do you mean by being in the same district?
     
  14. torerobuff

    torerobuff Dancing is forbidden Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,550
    Likes Received:
    565
    You are not allowed to play down. Private schools are required to play at least at the level of their enrollment, but are permitted to play above enrollment levels.
     
  15. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    It wasn't at that time. Granted, there was open enrollment but the district boundaries were hard lines.
     
  16. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    47,534
    Likes Received:
    1,000,005
    Are teams allowed to play down? I know a school like Valor can play up, but other than schools just crossing the cut-off going up being able to stay for a year or two, I didn't think a team could play down in a lower enrollment classification..
     
  17. INTHABUFF

    INTHABUFF Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    111
    There is more misconception in these posts than there are truths.

    I think a lot of the complaining that happens around this topic comes from the ever expanding mentality that everyone deserves to win. We all get a snack, a trophy, and a juice box whether we win or lose. The truth is, every school can't have a winning team. For somebody to be 12-0 somebody else probably has to be 0-12. Take Sacky's suggestion. In that league this year Boulder would lose to FHS, Longmont, Silver Creek, Monarch, and maybe even Centaurus. They would stomp Skyline and Niwot to go 2-7 or maybe 3-6. Now what do you do? Go down and get in a league with Lyons, Nederland, Justice, etc? No matter what there are going to be winners and losers.

    In Valor's defense, they will play football in 5A next year. They will do so with an enrollment under 900. The next smallest school not named Mullen is probably about 1600. Just about every private school is playing up at least 1 level with some playing up 2 or more.
     
    OrangeBowl likes this.
  18. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    Messages:
    31,645
    Likes Received:
    4,344
    I'm not sure how I feel in general about this, but the population argument isn't logical. If all you do is recruit to win at a certain sport, the size of the student population is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if the population is 100 if it's the right 100. So the statement "they all play up a level" isn't valid.
     
  19. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    30,085
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    It isn't about everyone winning - it is simply a matter of having a level playing field to compete.
     
  20. INTHABUFF

    INTHABUFF Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    111
    What are the indicators of a level playing field? I think no matter how "fair" things are made you are going to end up with somebody losing and then complaining about the classifications.
     
  21. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,586
    Likes Received:
    4,562
    It is funny they mentioned Valor hosting a track meet in that article. When I was in high school, our school had a dirt track that was graded once a year. The pits for all of the jumping events were not adequate. You can imagine what spring weather does to a dirt track. We used to laugh going to the big meets at Regis and Mullen because their facilities were ridiculous.
     
  22. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    30,085
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Same thing at Heritage. Was one of the few dirt tracks left in the state.... although I think they replaced it shortly after I graduated.

    Well, if you want to keep private and public schools playing one another, then one option would be to limit, or eliminate scholarships that athletes receive to private schools. Another would be to cap athletic spending to keep it comparable to what public schools are forced to deal with.

    But really, they should just have private schools in one league and public schools in another league. Then private schools can do whatever they want
     
  23. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,430
    I meant same County. My mistake.
     
  24. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Enrollment at private schools had nothing to do with the sports programs when they recruit and financially aid players. There is no defense for the Valor Violators. They cheat and have been caught multiple times. If CHSAA had any balls Valor would be eliminated from post season play until the kids in question graduate.
     
  25. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,430
    My argument isn't so much about winning. And you're probably right about who they would lose to. LHS and Silver Creek are very solid teams. My point is that Boulder will probably never be competitive again at 5A, and neither will Fairview for that matter (in football anyway). We'd have much more interest in the games if Boulder were playing Longmont as opposed to playing Legacy or Mtn View or Poudre.
     
  26. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Perhaps Colorado needs to go back to being a 6A state. Boulder & Fairview are both well above the 5A enrollment but still have no business being in the same class as most of the big 5A schools.
     
  27. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,489
    Likes Received:
    605
    That not correct. Colorado's The Public Schools of Choice Law was passed in the mid 90s - way before the Lendale White situation. District boundaries were not hard boundaries. A lot of that was an outfall of creating Charter Schools.
     
  28. 13Buff

    13Buff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    40
    I actually didn't mind running on some of the dirt tracks. Bennett HS sucked, Concrete Track. After 4 Miles (3200, 1600, 800 and 4x800) on that f***ing track my shins felt like they had split into a thousand pieces.

    Loved going to some of the Bigger schools, nice cushy tracks, lots of girls to look at. (Graduating class size of 67=slim pickings)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  29. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    That is true, but I remember big issues crossing district lines, especially for athletes.
     
  30. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    30,085
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Yeah, those rubber tracks are the norm now cause they're cheap. Even the crappy middle school by my house has one, and I run on it on sometimes
     

Share This Page