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Good article in the Post today about High School sports in Colorado

The point I was trying to make yesterday is no matter what you do with classifications and everything else there are going to be a few schools that consistently win, a few that consistently lose, and a bunch that rise and fall based on a talented class. Everybody wants to be a winner, but that just is not how it works no matter what your kindergarten soccer coach told you.

They need to sanction the blatant flaunting of the rules, but beyond that I agree with Eddie Mac, it's mostly jealousy.
I also wonder how much of this the system takes care of. Nobody has to schedule Valor in anything except football and even then it is only 6 league games. If nobody schedules them what do they do?
 
INTHABUFF said:
They need to sanction the blatant flaunting of the rules, but beyond that I agree with Eddie Mac, it's mostly jealousy.
Click to expand...

Is it jealousy, or wanting a level playing field? I'd argue it's the latter. Folks have been saying the same things about Mullen for years. Valor's just getting the publicity now because they're the new kid but are succeeding using Mullen's formula.
 
I think the notion of a level playing field comes from ones perceived ability to win or lose. I think no matter how you try to structure things to "level the playing field" somebody is going to win and somebody is going to lose and those people that lost are going to complain about an un-level playing field.
 
INTHABUFF said:
I think the notion of a level playing field comes from ones perceived ability to win or lose. I think no matter how you try to structure things to "level the playing field" somebody is going to win and somebody is going to lose and those people that lost are going to complain about an un-level playing field.
Click to expand...

Come on. The big 3 private schools can and do offer scholarships to the top football players in the metro area. At Valor the football coach is the freaking Dean of Admissions. Public schools cannot compete with that. The bigger schools have a big pool of kids to draw from, but they're not out cherrypicking like the privates do. Just look at the number of D-I players that Mullen produces vs. any other team. Valor will be up there with them shortly, if they are not there already.
 
I hate that the word amateur has been taken out of pretty much every sport now. I'm not one who thinks everyone should get a ribbon but there has to be a happy medium.

Bama Charlie has really put things in perspective for me. It seems the only way to compete at a college level now is to be unethical. It sounds like that has reached HS too.

This sucks.
 
Buffarino said:
Is it jealousy, or wanting a level playing field? I'd argue it's the latter. Folks have been saying the same things about Mullen for years. Valor's just getting the publicity now because they're the new kid but are succeeding using Mullen's formula.
Click to expand...
I think a large part of it is anger, not jealousy. When Mullen or Valor pull a 4 star kid from a public school it brings their total number of stars up a little higher, probably in the double digits. However, it may take the only star that public school had, and in turn, possibly the be difference between good and very good as a team.
 
So, you CAN play down in classification if you petition to do it and the petition is accepted. I think Alamosa High School did this a couple of years ago to move out of 3A and back to 2A because the travel costs were killing them to drive to Pueblo every other week.

For those concerned about the cutoff for 5A being too low and the disparity being too great in number of enrollees...the bad news is that it is slated to get worse next year.

2010-2012
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-125)
1A (126-275)
2A (276-600)
3A (601-1200)
4A (1201-1640)
5A (1641-up)

2012-2014
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-135)
1A (136-300)
2A (301-599)
3A (600-1049)
4A (1050-1609)
5A (1610-up)

The biggest change seems to be that the bigger 3A schools (1050-1200 students) are apparently moving up to 4A. Not sure how many schools that will affect. Very sad that apparently my old high school will be relegated to 8-man ball next year due to the new cutoffs.
 
BuffaloSoldier76 said:
So, you CAN play down in classification if you petition to do it and the petition is accepted. I think Alamosa High School did this a couple of years ago to move out of 3A and back to 2A because the travel costs were killing them to drive to Pueblo every other week.

For those concerned about the cutoff for 5A being too low and the disparity being too great in number of enrollees...the bad news is that it is slated to get worse next year.

2010-2012
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-125)
1A (126-275)
2A (276-600)
3A (601-1200)
4A (1201-1640)
5A (1641-up)

2012-2014
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-135)
1A (136-300)
2A (301-599)
3A (600-1049)
4A (1050-1609)
5A (1610-up)

The biggest change seems to be that the bigger 3A schools (1050-1200 students) are apparently moving up to 4A. Not sure how many schools that will affect. Very sad that apparently my old high school will be relegated to 8-man ball next year due to the new cutoffs.
Click to expand...
This won't level the playing field. All it will do is make schools put tighter caps on open enrollment.
 
BuffaloSoldier76 said:
So, you CAN play down in classification if you petition to do it and the petition is accepted. I think Alamosa High School did this a couple of years ago to move out of 3A and back to 2A because the travel costs were killing them to drive to Pueblo every other week.

For those concerned about the cutoff for 5A being too low and the disparity being too great in number of enrollees...the bad news is that it is slated to get worse next year.

2010-2012
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-125)
1A (126-275)
2A (276-600)
3A (601-1200)
4A (1201-1640)
5A (1641-up)

2012-2014
A-6 (1-75)
A-8 (76-135)
1A (136-300)
2A (301-599)
3A (600-1049)
4A (1050-1609)
5A (1610-up)

The biggest change seems to be that the bigger 3A schools (1050-1200 students) are apparently moving up to 4A. Not sure how many schools that will affect. Very sad that apparently my old high school will be relegated to 8-man ball next year due to the new cutoffs.
Click to expand...

According to this list the teams that would move up from 4A to 5A would be

43) Monarch High School – Louisville, CO – Total Enrollment: 1634
44) Rampart High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1633 (already playing in 5A)
45) Standley Lake High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1630
46) Green Mountain High School – Lakewood, CO – Total Enrollment: 1616
and you can add GJ Central to that list. I know they'll be dropping to 4A next year, so their enrollment must have dropped a little.

The schools that would move from 3A up to 4A would be...

85) Mesa Ridge High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1185
86) Sierra High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1183
87) Mountain View High School – Loveland, CO – Total Enrollment: 1179
88) Westminster High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1167
89) Thomas Jefferson High School – Denver, CO – Total Enrollment: 1106
90) Centennial High School – Pueblo, CO – Total Enrollment: 1091
91) Woodland Park High School – Woodland Park, CO – Total Enrollment: 1066

But TJ and Westminster are already playing up in 5A, Mesa Ridge is already playing in 4A.. So really based on those numbers, Sierra, Mountain View, Pueblo Centennial and Woodland Park would be the teams moving up. Should be great for Sierra, who went 0-10 in 3A.... :wow:
 
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Junction said:
According to this list the teams that would drop from 5A to 4A would be...

43) Monarch High School – Louisville, CO – Total Enrollment: 1634
44) Rampart High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1633
45) Standley Lake High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1630
46) Green Mountain High School – Lakewood, CO – Total Enrollment: 1616
and you can add GJ Central to that list. I know they'll be dropping to 4A next year, so their enrollment must have dropped a little.

The schools that would move from 3A up to 4A would be...

85) Mesa Ridge High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1185
86) Sierra High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1183
87) Mountain View High School – Loveland, CO – Total Enrollment: 1179
88) Westminster High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1167
89) Thomas Jefferson High School – Denver, CO – Total Enrollment: 1106
90) Centennial High School – Pueblo, CO – Total Enrollment: 1091
91) Woodland Park High School – Woodland Park, CO – Total Enrollment: 1066

But TJ and Westminster are already playing up in 5A, Mesa Ridge is already playing in 4A.. So really based on those numbers, Sierra, Mountain View, Pueblo Centennial and Woodland Park would be the teams moving up. Should be great for Sierra, who went 0-10 in 3A.... :wow:
Click to expand...
I may be wrong but I believe those numbers are for non-football sports. Your 4A list of schools are already 4A in football, but 5A in all other sports.
 
SuperiorBuff said:
I may be wrong but I believe those numbers are for non-football sports. Your 4A list of schools are already 4A in football, but 5A in all other sports.
Click to expand...

The 1641 is definitely the football cut-off now. And you're right, other than Rampart the other 3 schools are 4A in football now. But they would be 5A under the new limits. I had that backward. Those schools would actually move UP, not down. Other than GJ Central, which is definitely moving down, presumably because enrollment changed.
 
Junction said:
The 1641 is definitely the football cut-off now. And you're right, other than Rampart the other 3 schools are 4A in football now. But they would be 5A under the new limits. I had that backward. Those schools would actually move UP, not down. Other than GJ Central, which is definitely moving down, presumably because enrollment changed.
Click to expand...
Like I said above, this will just force schools to severely limit open enrollment.
 
Junction said:
According to this list the teams that would move up from 4A to 5A would be

43) Monarch High School – Louisville, CO – Total Enrollment: 1634
44) Rampart High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1633 (already playing in 5A)
45) Standley Lake High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1630
46) Green Mountain High School – Lakewood, CO – Total Enrollment: 1616
and you can add GJ Central to that list. I know they'll be dropping to 4A next year, so their enrollment must have dropped a little.

The schools that would move from 3A up to 4A would be...

85) Mesa Ridge High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1185
86) Sierra High School – Colorado Springs, CO – Total Enrollment: 1183
87) Mountain View High School – Loveland, CO – Total Enrollment: 1179
88) Westminster High School – Westminster, CO – Total Enrollment: 1167
89) Thomas Jefferson High School – Denver, CO – Total Enrollment: 1106
90) Centennial High School – Pueblo, CO – Total Enrollment: 1091
91) Woodland Park High School – Woodland Park, CO – Total Enrollment: 1066

But TJ and Westminster are already playing up in 5A, Mesa Ridge is already playing in 4A.. So really based on those numbers, Sierra, Mountain View, Pueblo Centennial and Woodland Park would be the teams moving up. Should be great for Sierra, who went 0-10 in 3A.... :wow:
Click to expand...
Dammit we already got moved up to 5A before I played at GM not really a good fit, GM was once a power house in 4A football now we've made the playoffs once since 2004 my freshman year...
 
CUBuffs12 said:
Dammit we already got moved up to 5A before I played at GM not really a good fit, GM was once a power house in 4A football now we've made the playoffs once since 2004 my freshman year...
Click to expand...

And using those numbers, you would only be 6 over the new cutoff... :huh:
 
SuperiorBuff said:
Like I said above, this will just force schools to severely limit open enrollment.
Click to expand...

No offense, but you are loony if you think a school is going to cap open enroll to avoid changing classification in football. First, the decision is made based on how many kids they had enrolled in October of this year. They could let in 1000 kids next year and it wouldn't change the classification. 2nd, every student they enroll is worth $6-7K for the district. They may cap enrollment but it won't be to avoid playing a football game.
 
INTHABUFF said:
No offense, but you are loony if you think a school is going to cap open enroll to avoid changing classification in football. First, the decision is made based on how many kids they had enrolled in October of this year. They could let in 1000 kids next year and it wouldn't change the classification. 2nd, every student they enroll is worth $6-7K for the district. They may cap enrollment but it won't be to avoid playing a football game.
Click to expand...
You are niave to think it isn't already happening. I know of at least 2 schools who have done it for a while now. CHSAA runs a census every 2 years and these schools numbers drop every other year.
 
Junction said:
Yeah, I found it after you posted the name above. I assume the enrollment figures they have in there are probably as of the last time they reclassified (2010?). It's interesting there is as much difference as there is between that and what seems to be 2011 numbers I found. I assume CHSAA does some adjusting?
Click to expand...
See what I mean about schools intentionally limiting enrollment?
 
Junction said:
Yeah, I found it after you posted the name above. I assume the enrollment figures they have in there are probably as of the last time they reclassified (2010?). It's interesting there is as much difference as there is between that and what seems to be 2011 numbers I found. I assume CHSAA does some adjusting?
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They have to be adjusting enrollment somehow. It looks like that is why Ponderosa and Legend are classified in 4A.
 
sackman said:
Slightly off topic, but I'll chime in based on my own experiences. At BHS, the football team stinks. There's no other way to put it. They *might* get a solid player like Ty Littlehales or Will Pericak once every 3-4 years. They have a running back named Demetrius Kennedy who is something special now. But the rest of the team is terrible. The high schools in Boulder are steadily shrinking. Fewer and fewer people can both afford to have kids and live in Boulder. The demographics of Boulder are changing rapidly. So having Boulder try to put a respectable football team on the field is asking a bit much. They can field smaller teams, like basketball, swimming, wrestling, etc. But football is an entirely different animal. I've said for years that BHS and FHS should be allowed to be in the same district with the other schools in Boulder County (Monarch, Centaurus, Longmont, Skyline, Niwot, Silver Creek). I even spoke with the BHS principal about it - and he seemed to have no idea that there were other schools outside of Boulder and Fairview in Boulder County (sigh).

Long story short - Colorado High School sports, and football in particular, is totally messed up. It's not governed well, and that's why we're in the situation we're in.
Click to expand...

Both Boulder schools are 5A in all sports while the Longmont schools are either 3A or 4A in football and generally 4A in other sports. I'm not sure if Longmont HS is 5A in other sports but I doubt it since they have built two new high schools not that long ago and basically built a new Erie High School in that town as well.

If both Boulder schools want to drop to 4A, they will have to build at least another school in town but I don't think that will happen.
 
I saw a list of schools for each classification for 2012 and 2013. Valor Christian is already moving up to 5A in football even if they do not have half of the enrollment of the 5A cutoff number. CHSAA took that stuff off their website but hopefully they will have it soon and they will decide on everything next month when it comes to the football classifications for 2012 and 2013.

Some notable changes to me are that my school, Estes Park, will be "playing down" in 1A....Nederland did play down in 8-man football not that long ago. Schools from the eastern plains have or are dropping down at least one class. Sterling is dropping from 3A to 2A and so is Ft. Lupton. Skyline in Longmont will continue to play down in 3A (they are supposed to be 4A). Mead goes up from 2A to 3A and Windsor finally goes to 4A from 3A.
 
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NashBuff said:
Both Boulder schools are 5A in all sports while the Longmont schools are either 3A or 4A in football and generally 4A in other sports. I'm not sure if Longmont HS is 5A in other sports but I doubt it since they have built two new high schools not that long ago and basically built a new Erie High School in that town as well.

If both Boulder schools want to drop to 4A, they will have to build at least another school in town but I don't think that will happen.
Click to expand...

Why? Enrollment at both BHS and FHS is dropping steadily. Has been for the last 20 years. They're CLOSING schools in Boulder, not building new ones.
 
NashBuff said:
Both Boulder schools are 5A in all sports while the Longmont schools are either 3A or 4A in football and generally 4A in other sports. I'm not sure if Longmont HS is 5A in other sports but I doubt it since they have built two new high schools not that long ago and basically built a new Erie High School in that town as well.

If both Boulder schools want to drop to 4A, they will have to build at least another school in town but I don't think that will happen.
Click to expand...

Mead High School near me is also a new HS that draws from Longmont - mostly east Longmonters trying to escape Skyline.
 
66BUFF said:
is Skyline a ****** school now?
Click to expand...

No. It's not a sh*tty school. It does have a high percentage of hispanic students, though. Probably about 35% of the total enrollment (my guess, not from any official publication). That bothers a lot of people. One thing Skyline has going for it that is pretty cool is their STEM program (Science, Technology, Engineering & Math). They have an agreement with CU that if you successfully complete the STEM program at Skyline, you're automatically accepted into the CU Engineering School.
 
sackman said:
No. It's not a sh*tty school. It does have a high percentage of hispanic students, though. Probably about 35% of the total enrollment (my guess, not from any official publication). That bothers a lot of people. One thing Skyline has going for it that is pretty cool is their STEM program (Science, Technology, Engineering & Math). They have an agreement with CU that if you successfully complete the STEM program at Skyline, you're automatically accepted into the CU Engineering School.
Click to expand...
Much like Centaurus. The white flight from there is pathetic; it is a very good school.
 
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