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Good news, Buffs fans

WCO prostyle is pretty complicated. I know I have said this a lot, but I really think it is part of the problem. Embo named Webb in fall camp and since then my guess is he has gotten a very large majority of the work. That is the way it is in the pros. If you remember back to the GB/Shortbus/JK combo, there were times where JK stunk it up, but they rode him because "he gives us the best chance to win". The answer to that question is he is likely getting 85-90% of the practice snaps so he can master the hyper complicated WCO/pro style. Webb probably learns quick, throws slow, just like JK. (Honestly, JK was WAY better than Webb) The coaches see all the correct pre-snap reads, the correct progressions and think, "Wow".

Problem is, CFB has practice limits that make effectively running this O nearly impossible without superior talent. Look at how much Stanford has struggled without Luck. Yeah, if you have a Barkley, you are good to go, without, forget it.

Oregon has FOUR basic running palys and builds playaction passing off of FOUR running plays. They execute, and BTW so do their second and third team QB's, because it is simple,well-schemed and they run those plays, literally, hundreds of times a week in practice. Every player knows exactly what to do. I haven't seen the Embo EB playbook, but my guess is it isn't terribly different than many pro schemes. I have had the opportunity to see some of one NFL teams stuff up close. I saw part of the Shortbus three step drop passing game schematics. It is complicated with a massive amount of variations. You could not run all of those plays three times in a week of CFB practices. That is why you constantly hear "simplifying the offense", and "need to execute", and you also know why GB's WCO/pro style teams were notoriously slow starters. They looked pretty rough at the beginning of the season and played much better at the end. You are seeing it in Embo's squad last year. Two of the three W's came at the very end of the year. Even USC is prone to dropping an early game for the same reason.

Don't believe me on the Oregon O? Check the link and read Chip Kelly yourself.

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/oregonruns.pdf
 
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Yep, I've thought for a long time that the coaches are barking up the wrong tree with the complicated WCO for this team, or any CFB team for that matter. You've got so many more guys on the roster that turns over completely every 4.5 years or so on average, so you don't get very much time to work with them. Better to keep it simple and out-execute the other team.
 
The Oregon offense is so simple - they often don't even need to use their entire practice time, apparently it is pretty frequent for their practices to get cut short by 20-30 minutes, because they've already run through everything 100 times.

I am thinking about something that Embree said that Harbaugh told him when he started. That he needed to recruit guys who "love football." Also coupled with something someone mentioned a few weeks about the players needing to be taught "how to watch film." When there are very limited practice hours, you need players that are both capable of, and willing to, practice and/or watch game film on their own.

I suspect that our staff has been focused a little too much on recruiting players that are "willing to," but that they haven't focused on either recruiting players that are already "capable of" or teaching them to be "capable of" practicing/watching game film on their own.
 
leftybuff said:
WCO prostyle is pretty complicated. I know I have said this a lot, but I really think it is part of the problem. Embo named Webb in fall camp and since then my guess is he has gotten a very large majority of the work. That is the way it is in the pros. If you remember back to the GB/Shortbus/JK combo, there were times where JK stunk it up, but they rode him because "he gives us the best chance to win". The answer to that question is he is likely getting 85-90% of the practice snaps so he can master the hyper complicated WCO/pro style. Webb probably learns quick, throws slow, just like JK. (Honestly, JK was WAY better than Webb) The coaches see all the correct pre-snap reads, the correct progressions and think, "Wow".

Problem is, CFB has practice limits that make effectively running this O nearly impossible without superior talent. Look at how much Stanford has struggled without Luck. Yeah, if you have a Barkley, you are good to go, without, forget it.

Oregon has FOUR basic running palys and builds playaction passing off of FOUR running plays. They execute, and BTW so do their second and third team QB's, because it is simple,well-schemed and they run those plays, literally, hundreds of times a week in practice. Every player knows exactly what to do. I haven't seen the Embo EB playbook, but my guess is it isn't terribly different than many pro schemes. I have had the opportunity to see some of one NFL teams stuff up close. I saw part of the Shortbus three step drop passing game schematics. It is complicated with a massive amount of variations. You could not run all of those plays three times in a week of CFB practices. That is why you constantly hear "simplifying the offense", and "need to execute", and you also know why GB's WCO/pro style teams were notoriously slow starters. They looked pretty rough at the beginning of the season and played much better at the end. You are seeing it in Embo's squad last year. Two of the three W's came at the very end of the year. Even USC is prone to dropping an early game for the same reason.

Don't believe me on the Oregon O? Check the link and read Chip Kelly yourself.

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/oregonruns.pdf
Click to expand...

Good discussion, lefty. I suspect the playbook is way too involved like you mention. There isn't enough practice time for all of that to be absorbed and become efficient with. I don't understand what some coaches are thinking. You can't operate college football like you operate professional football. It's that simple.
 
so glad I'm not going tomorrow. ****ing A Embree, you've managed to HaLk me.
 
skibum said:
The Oregon offense is so simple - they often don't even need to use their entire practice time, apparently it is pretty frequent for their practices to get cut short by 20-30 minutes, because they've already run through everything 100 times.

I am thinking about something that Embree said that Harbaugh told him when he started. That he needed to recruit guys who "love football." Also coupled with something someone mentioned a few weeks about the players needing to be taught "how to watch film." When there are very limited practice hours, you need players that are both capable of, and willing to, practice and/or watch game film on their own.

I suspect that our staff has been focused a little too much on recruiting players that are "willing to," but that they haven't focused on either recruiting players that are already "capable of" or teaching them to be "capable of" practicing/watching game film on their own.
Click to expand...
That's what some of the defensive upperclassmen said. With the iPads issued, they can track who is watching film...many of the frosh are not.
 
leftybuff said:
WCO prostyle is pretty complicated. I know I have said this a lot, but I really think it is part of the problem. Embo named Webb in fall camp and since then my guess is he has gotten a very large majority of the work. That is the way it is in the pros. If you remember back to the GB/Shortbus/JK combo, there were times where JK stunk it up, but they rode him because "he gives us the best chance to win". The answer to that question is he is likely getting 85-90% of the practice snaps so he can master the hyper complicated WCO/pro style. Webb probably learns quick, throws slow, just like JK. (Honestly, JK was WAY better than Webb) The coaches see all the correct pre-snap reads, the correct progressions and think, "Wow".

Problem is, CFB has practice limits that make effectively running this O nearly impossible without superior talent. Look at how much Stanford has struggled without Luck. Yeah, if you have a Barkley, you are good to go, without, forget it.

Oregon has FOUR basic running palys and builds playaction passing off of FOUR running plays. They execute, and BTW so do their second and third team QB's, because it is simple,well-schemed and they run those plays, literally, hundreds of times a week in practice. Every player knows exactly what to do. I haven't seen the Embo EB playbook, but my guess is it isn't terribly different than many pro schemes. I have had the opportunity to see some of one NFL teams stuff up close. I saw part of the Shortbus three step drop passing game schematics. It is complicated with a massive amount of variations. You could not run all of those plays three times in a week of CFB practices. That is why you constantly hear "simplifying the offense", and "need to execute", and you also know why GB's WCO/pro style teams were notoriously slow starters. They looked pretty rough at the beginning of the season and played much better at the end. You are seeing it in Embo's squad last year. Two of the three W's came at the very end of the year. Even USC is prone to dropping an early game for the same reason.

Don't believe me on the Oregon O? Check the link and read Chip Kelly yourself.

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/oregonruns.pdf
Click to expand...
Thanks lefty. I think this is why teams get good pretty quickly running the option...like Mac did back in the day. It is simple for the O, but tougher to defend.

Football is about execution...seems Embo et al have made it so difficult these young kids can't do what they're taught. Probably explains why practice doesn't translate to the field...cuz in a real game situation, stress increases, mental ability drops and execution suffers. Simple offense should be practiced so much it is really muscle memory with very little thought.

I think we have enough talent, speed and strength to be at least competitive, but the scheme they're trying to run is too complicated.

The staff is used to pros who can pick this stuff up quickly...but they've been doing it for years. This would also explain Embree's impatience with the players...he expects them to pick this stuff up much more quickly than they are capable.

If Embree wants to emulate what Mac did...go to the option. Won't happen, unless Bohn makes it so, but he's too passive to do that I think.

Maybe Helfrich would want to come back here and bring the Oregon offensive scheme with him!!!
 
tante said:
If a guy can't even practice right what makes you want to see him in a game. What kind of message does that send out to the rest of the team? Don't worry about practice because the coaches will play you anyway.
Click to expand...

Because practice is not everything. some guys play better in games than they practice. Based on your theory, Tebow never would have played last year. At least Fox had the forsight to think outside of the box and gave Tebow a try. We are not going bowling, so as coaches, they need to think outside the box and give Wood and Hirshman meaningfull snaps in a game. If they suck, then we all have our answer and can look towards either Dillon or Sefo being our QB next year. BUT TO CONTINUE TO PLAY WEBB MAKES NO SENSE. He is not going to majically get better.
 
BuffClass90 said:
That's what some of the defensive upperclassmen said. With the iPads issued, they can track who is watching film...many of the frosh are not.
Click to expand...
IMO there's a clear division in the locker room between the Embo kids and Pigeon kids. The statement I quoted(I think it was Orms) was said the week after Crawley said that some players quit on the team(I believe Crawley was referring to the Pigeon recruits). I know it's purely speculation, but reading between the lines I think there's a clear division in the locker room and I don't know who to believe now(it's probably both). Young kids say the team quit and the veterans say the young kids don't watch film. Oy vey this is messy.
 
buffalocu81 said:
We are not going bowling, so as coaches, they need to think outside the box and give Wood and Hirshman meaningfull snaps in a game. If they suck, then we all have our answer and can look towards either Dillon or Sefo being our QB next year. BUT TO CONTINUE TO PLAY WEBB MAKES NO SENSE. He is not going to majically get better.
Click to expand...

I can't remember how many times I was screaming at the TV last year when we would roll out Hansen in the 3rd quarter down 45-0 like we still had a shot at winning the game. We also kept in the rest of the Seniors for way too long and never gave the young guys a chance to get some game experience. This is an ongoing problem for Embree and I won't for one minute believe that Hirsch or Wood is worse than Webb(I will even buy into the conspiracy that Webb was promised something by Embo). IMO Embree is one of the most stubborn coaches ever to be a HC.
 
Will the admins change the subject line of this thread? Tired of thinking we have any ****ing good news.
 
buffsyko said:
Simple, embree thinks they have a shot so he's going with experience. When the buffs are trailing 31-3 at half, he'll bring in hirsch...

This is HAWK part 2.

This administration and lack of caring by alumni across the globe and players makes me sick.
Click to expand...

Can't believe I'm going to say this, but Hawk was a somewhat decent coach compared to what we have now
 
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