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Greg Brown

BuffsRising said:
Film has been known to lie to stupid people, such as those who watch film of the spring game during the actual season.
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Well you are entitled to your opinion, and mine is that it is not even close Espinoza and Lockridge are not better than Olatoye. After saying that , Olatoye should probably play safety. Parker Orms should also go back to safety when he comes back.
 
Watch Olatoye's superb cover skills against Ohio State. Believe it was the first td for them since u like film.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Watch Olatoye's superb cover skills against Ohio State. Believe it was the first td for them since u like film.
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Am going by the premise that the best players are playing. Espinoza is not better than Olatoye. And every corner back gets burned just like Greg Henderson got burn't today. Believe whatever you want. I just don't buy Espinza being better than Olatoye, i wonder why Daily Camera and other news outlets are not asking this question. Maybe i should send an email to Joel Klatt. I want to know why Espinoza is playing ahead of Olatoye, Moten and Jonathan Hawkins.
 
bigbang said:
Am going by the premise that the best players are playing. Espinoza is not better than Olatoye. And every corner back gets burned just like Greg Henderson got burn't today. Believe whatever you want. I just don't buy Espinza being better than Olatoye, i wonder why Daily Camera and other news outlets are not asking this question. Maybe i should send an email to Joel Klatt. I want to know why Espinoza is playing ahead of Olatoye, Moten and Jonathan Hawkins.
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You act like Olatoye is the 2nd coming of Darrel Revis.
 
Eventhough this has already been said, we'll try again. Hawkins has some injury issues so no point in even mentioning him. Moten played today so dont know where that came from. As far as Olatoye, I dont think anybody thinks Espy is better that Deji. Nobody knows why he isnt playing unless you are at practice. Maybe he's banged up, maybe he's practicing like dog****, maybe he's got an attitude problem. Who the hell knows? Embree is not gonna play guys just because they have some physical ability but dont wanna work hard. We havent got the results we want yet but, make no mistake, Embo is all business and doesnt play games.
 
@Jimmy

not the point, Deji future might be at safety, but he is still better than Espy.

@Luke

You might be right, that is why we need answers. Joel Klatt is probably the only person in the media that has the guts to ask the tough questions.
 
That's an inhouse issue as far as Deji. Unless it's an injury which Im sure we'll hear about eventually. If it's an attitude problem, practice issue, in the doghouse or whatever, we wont hear jack about it unless Embo wants to go that route. Seeing how he is, I doubt he will do anything but handle that inhouse.
 
I wouldn't blame any coordinator for recruiting problems. Coaches normally recruit areas not position and coordinators get to be coordinators for game planning more than recruiting. Now your DC may suck but don't blame him for no talent. You people have to give this coaching staff some time. They can't undo five years of XCDHs intramural type program in one year. The one thing he has to do is recruit. If he can't bring in top 25 talent in your current situation he will not succeed. Do not give me the 'got to win first' crap or I will show you CNSs #1 class after going 7-6 and beating you guys in that ****hole in Louisiana. CJE may or may not be your guy but there is no way he can be blamed for all of your problems. Ya'll need to calm down and the man some time.
 
bigbang said:
BTW what happened to Paul Vigo, Arthur Jafee and co. Are they that bad or did they break a team rule.
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Bang, we are not good and the talent level does not compare to good BCS level teams. You combine that with an inexperienced staff and you get what we have on the field. Bad decisions combined with talent that cannot be stretched and players that can not figure out how to win is a recipe for disaster. It is going to be a long year this season and not much better next
 
bigbang said:
3 star, 96th Safety in the country according to Scout.
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We talking about Deji? Actually 98th, but that's splitting hairs.

ESPN didn't rate and Rivals gave him the lowest possible courtesy 2* rating. You're hanging your hat on the one service that was thinking that there was a bit more there also thought there were 97 guys who would make better safeties? There are only 120 teams, man. His only other D1 offer was to Ohio.

Now, I like his size and he's got long arms. He is the type of player who a team could redshirt and develop so that he's doing good things on special teams and making a nice contribution to the defense as a 4th and 5th year guy. But we're talking about this player, if he'd been healthy, being relied on as our 2nd best CB option on Saturday as a RS-Soph.

Let's stick with Scout and go through the player ratings on the scholarship guys in the Buffs' secondary:

Seniors
Anthony Perkins (3*, #45 CB)
Arthur Jaffee (not rated RB)
Jonathan Hawkins (2*, unranked CB)
Jason Espinoza (not in database out of HS - listed at WR as freshman)
Travis Sandersfeld (not in database out of HS - listed at OLB as freshman)
Brian Lockridge (2*, unranked RB)

Juniors
Ray Polk (3*, #44 RB)

Sophomores
Jered Bell (3*, #98 CB)
Deji Olatoye (3*, #98 S)
Parker Orms (2*, #114 S)
Terrel Smith (not rated S)
Paul Vigo (2*, #84 weakside LB)

Freshmen
Jermaine Clark (not rated RB)
Will Harlos (3*, #117 OLB)
Sherrard Harrington (2*, unranked CB)
Greg Henderson (2*, unranked CB)
Josh Moten (2*, #95 QB)
Kyle Washington (2*, unranked WR)

I don't know about the rest of you, but even if we were 100% healthy I'd see a talent problem here. The good thing is that any recruit has to think he has a chance to start in the Pac-12 as a true freshman.
 
Position coaches just recruit different areas, not the individual positions they coach, so it is all good IMO.
 
yes - we need a talent upgrade. The OSU game made this so clear. But that does not mean fans should be calling for Greg Brown's head after the season. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but it just seems like emotions are clouding thinking. Greg Brown is an excellent football mind that knows how to coach. The jury is out still (and will be for a bit) on how well is at coordinating defenses.Just like how Embree talks about how his players need to change their mental attitude towards losing and games, I think fans could too. Under the Hawk regime, players were told that they were one-two plays away, this close, it's okay, Hawk-love...and they're now trying to get their dawg-swag back.Under Hawk, the fans were told to be patient, and we were, and then we were told to be more patient, and some of stopped being patient. Then we were told to be more patient, and we all started to get aggravated and annoyed with the coaching staff. They were a joke. It was impossible not to critique every coach on the staff sans Cabral. It's a new coaching staff that we have, and unlike Hawk after GB, I do feel Embree is dealing with a burnt down house - talent and attitude. It was easy to pick on the old staff - I'm not saying to settle for losing, but let's not treat the new staff with the same suspicious eye that we held the old one to. I for one do think Brown is a big upgrade over Collins.
 
@Buffnik, so you equate talent to star rating. Moten looked good in his breif apprearnce. Sherrad Harrington is a good prospect, should be ready for spring. I like Henderson, Moten, Harrington. The problem is that we are inexperienced at Corner.
 
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dyemeduke said:
yes - we need a talent upgrade. The OSU game made this so clear. But that does not mean fans should be calling for Greg Brown's head after the season. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but it just seems like emotions are clouding thinking. Greg Brown is an excellent football mind that knows how to coach. The jury is out still (and will be for a bit) on how well is at coordinating defenses.Just like how Embree talks about how his players need to change their mental attitude towards losing and games, I think fans could too. Under the Hawk regime, players were told that they were one-two plays away, this close, it's okay, Hawk-love...and they're now trying to get their dawg-swag back.Under Hawk, the fans were told to be patient, and we were, and then we were told to be more patient, and some of stopped being patient. Then we were told to be more patient, and we all started to get aggravated and annoyed with the coaching staff. They were a joke. It was impossible not to critique every coach on the staff sans Cabral. It's a new coaching staff that we have, and unlike Hawk after GB, I do feel Embree is dealing with a burnt down house - talent and attitude. It was easy to pick on the old staff - I'm not saying to settle for losing, but let's not treat the new staff with the same suspicious eye that we held the old one to. I for one do think Brown is a big upgrade over Collins.
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Just about anyone is a big upgrade over Ron Collins. I freely acknowledge that Brown is going nowhere, but I will never understand why he gets a free pass from 95% of the fanbase. He deserves some blame for a DB depth chart that resembles something you would see at San Jose State. If he cannot/does not want to put in the effort on the recruiting trail, find a DB coach who can and make Brown solely a DC. I look forward to the "well, Brown did get Jimmy Smith and Jalil Brown to the NFL" posts this February when we sign 4-5 guys no one has ever heard of.

bigbang said:
@Buffnik, so you equate talent to star rating.
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Nice.
 
I'm, obviously, a lousy judge of coaching talent. Greg Brown has always gotten great revues as a position coach. I have no idea how he is as a recruiter. Boulder Buff, you follow recruiting pretty heavily. To me, recruiting is about effort coupled with personality. Does he lack in those two areas?

As far as his ability to be a coordinator, I don't see that there is enough history to go on yet. Maybe he shares some blame for the lack of talent in our defensive secondary from his years with Hawkins. Regardless of that, he does not have nearly enough talent on defense. I doubt if anyone could be very successful with our lack of talent.
 
I agree with BB, make Brown soley the DC and hire a DB coach. I thought that was something that should have been done in the first place.
 
bigbang said:
@Buffnik, so you equate talent to star rating. Moten looked good in his breif apprearnce. Sherrad Harrington is a good prospect, should be ready for spring. I like Henderson, Moten, Harrington. The problem is that we are inexperienced at Corner.
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Has that ever been my m.o.?

Star ratings are a guide. I'm pretty confident that if we took the worst 4* defensive backs from the last 5 years on Scout and replaced our current defensive backfield with them, that we'd be a lot better. Might be a good project for you. Otherwise, I'll just assume I'm right on this one.

But beyond the start ratings, I look more specifically for speed and size (something the ratings do take into account, btw). If we're going to take a DB who is rated low, I want him to be fast, explosive and have a lot of length so I know he's got a chance to develop like a Jimmy Smith (3*, #53 S) or Jalil Brown (3*, #18 CB) did. Of course, those ratings look incredible compared to our current roster.

Our current defensive backfield has a lot of guys who are too short (without long arms or great jumping ability), too slow (without great explosiveness or quickness), or both.

I love Harrington. I like Henderson. I like Washington. I like Harlos. I like Orms (if he can ever stay healthy). I like Bell. Some others have enough athleticism that they could develop. I actually think I'll like our secondary in 2 years once the young guys have matured and we have pulled in two recruiting classes behind them to push and challenge (maybe take a starting spot or two). And while I'm being honest, I don't think much of our sophomore group either, especially since Bell will redshirt and will not be in that group next year so pretty much all our DBs I like will be frosh and soph in 2012.

Finally - the seniors are horrible. There's almost nothing in the junior class. Love Polk's athleticism and it looked like he had a bit of a breakthrough game against Wazzu, but he's alone in that class and still has a ways to go. We have to recruit better and we have to recruit more consistently.
 
No one gets a pass but this staff does deserve time and they do not need to be saddled with baggage from the Hawkins era. To go back to the Hawkins Era and blame the poor recruiting on one coach is misguided. Hawkins is a total idiot...and it showed up really well in recruiting...he had his staff running all over looking at players and not focusing on any recruiting hotbeds, no one on his staff could tell what his recruiting philosophy was. He continually only wanted to show interest in projects and refused to offer players early. A lot of good players did not even hear from the Buffs until they already had made their visit lists so we were always late to the party.

This staff needs to be judged from this season forward. Yes recruiting needs to improve drastically but guess what ---it is not going to happen in one year. I really do not expect to see much improvement on the talent level for another 2 years. We have a large Senior Class with 3 years of drought behind them.

The people that are still here that I blame are Mike Bohn and Phil DiStefano - letting Hawkins stay that extra year probably set the program back 2 to 3 years further.
 
Brown doesnt get a pass from me solely because of recruiting. It's part of the job and he hasnt done his job there imo. I would have no problem with the hiring a db coach and making him only the DC. Actually think that is a good idea. His schemes have been pretty sound for the most part imo. The talent we have can make any scheme look ******.
 
Buffnik said:
We talking about Deji? Actually 98th, but that's splitting hairs.

ESPN didn't rate and Rivals gave him the lowest possible courtesy 2* rating. You're hanging your hat on the one service that was thinking that there was a bit more there also thought there were 97 guys who would make better safeties? There are only 120 teams, man. His only other D1 offer was to Ohio.

Now, I like his size and he's got long arms. He is the type of player who a team could redshirt and develop so that he's doing good things on special teams and making a nice contribution to the defense as a 4th and 5th year guy. But we're talking about this player, if he'd been healthy, being relied on as our 2nd best CB option on Saturday as a RS-Soph.

Let's stick with Scout and go through the player ratings on the scholarship guys in the Buffs' secondary:

Seniors
Anthony Perkins (3*, #45 CB)
Arthur Jaffee (not rated RB)
Jonathan Hawkins (2*, unranked CB)
Jason Espinoza (not in database out of HS - listed at WR as freshman)
Travis Sandersfeld (not in database out of HS - listed at OLB as freshman)
Brian Lockridge (2*, unranked RB)

Juniors
Ray Polk (3*, #44 RB)

Sophomores
Jered Bell (3*, #98 CB)
Deji Olatoye (3*, #98 S)
Parker Orms (2*, #114 S)
Terrel Smith (not rated S)
Paul Vigo (2*, #84 weakside LB)

Freshmen
Jermaine Clark (not rated RB)
Will Harlos (3*, #117 OLB)
Sherrard Harrington (2*, unranked CB)
Greg Henderson (2*, unranked CB)
Josh Moten (2*, #95 QB)
Kyle Washington (2*, unranked WR)

I don't know about the rest of you, but even if we were 100% healthy I'd see a talent problem here. The good thing is that any recruit has to think he has a chance to start in the Pac-12 as a true freshman.
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So, basically we have 4 3* players who were recruited as DBs on the entire roster? One of whom is hurt, one is redshirting (or Harlos may as well be), one hasn't been the same since a knee injury, and the fourth wasn't considered anywhere near a 3* by more than one service? Meaning we more likely have absolutely nobody recruited as a DB who got rated more than 2*? I don't care whether you think the rankings mean everything or not, you have to admit that they are right a high enough percentage of the time that a depth chart like that is just seriously bad juju. :bang: :bang:
 
Boulder Buff said:
Just about anyone is a big upgrade over Ron Collins. I freely acknowledge that Brown is going nowhere, but I will never understand why he gets a free pass from 95% of the fanbase. He deserves some blame for a DB depth chart that resembles something you would see at San Jose State. If he cannot/does not want to put in the effort on the recruiting trail, find a DB coach who can and make Brown solely a DC. I look forward to the "well, Brown did get Jimmy Smith and Jalil Brown to the NFL" posts this February when we sign 4-5 guys no one has ever heard of.
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At first, I thought you were being harsh in laying the DB problems all at the feet of Brown. Unfortunately, he has whiffed on a lot of players. Let's look closer at the DB classes:

2011 class - Jermaine Clark (ATH - projected Safety 2 Star); Will Harlos (2~3 star Safety); Sherrad Harrington (3 star CB); Greg Henderson (2 star CB); Kyle Washington (ATH 2 star). Overall, not a great class, but the staff was only given 6 weeks to assemble. Henderson is starting and playing reasonably well. Harrington could be very good, but is injured and will redshirt. The others need time to develop. Jury still out on this class obviously.

2010 class (Brown not a coach at CU) - Jared Bell (3 star CB tore ACL); Terrel Smith (2 star Safety)

2009 class (Brown out the door in early December, so he wasn't around to close on anyone last 2 months - Deji Olatoye (2 star DB), Parker Orms (2 star DB), Josh Moten (2 star QB - projected CB), Makiri Pugh (3 star DB transfer from UGA) I like Orms, he is all heart but is too injury prone. Olatoye has done nothing, although I recall him getting 'rave reviews' when he first got here. Pugh is now a back up WR. This was a terrible DB class, no way around it. But the 2009 class sucked all the way around too. There are a few good players, but half the recruits are off the team, and a good portion of the rest are permenant back ups. I'm not sure anyone could recruit after the egg that Hawk laid during the season. Everyone, I mean everyone, thought Hawkins was gonna get fired. Even Bohn thought Hawk was gonna get fired. That extra year for Hawkins is really hurting us now.

2008 class - Vince Ewing (2 star Safety), Steven Hicks (3 star DB); Patrick Mahnke (2 star Safety); Paul Vigo (2 star ATH, projected DB) This class = FAIL (note: Ray Polk 4 star RB was converted to Safety, a position he played some in high school). In Brown's defense, you could say that we had too young starting corners, so it might've been hard to recruit and also not much of a positional need yet.

2007 class - Anthony Perkins (3 star Safety); Lamont Smith (2 star CB)

A lot of what you notice is that we've taken a lot of athletes and tried to convert them to corners. Prior to the 2011 class, it looks like the only true CB we've recruited is Jared Bell. If we want to be good again, we need to nab an elite CB at least every other year.
 
Beat me by a few seconds Junction...but apparently we came to the same conclusion independently.
 
Junction said:
Yeah, but in those few seconds you came up with a MUCH better post.... :thumbsup:
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I just hope we're not writing the same thing about Marshall and the O Line in a few years. All the coaches need to step it up on the recruiting trail over the next few months.
 
I thought he did a respectable job in the 1st half. The 2nd half was terrible. I'm pretty sure Olatoye was suspended. With that said Vigo, Orms, Sandersfeld, Jaffee, Jered Bell, and Hawkins are all injured. THat is terrible luck
 
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