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Guess CU's gotta find a bunch of Diamonds in the rough
- Thread starter 1701
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I say this every few weeks, but I still think if Mac has a rough year, perhaps 4 wins or less, he could get axed with RG planing Jim Leavitt into his role with full rein on the team and staff. It would be less dramatic than a full coaching change while potentially, instantly boosting the team.
Really don't think you can promote the new guy on staff to HC if the team has a poor year.
The new facilities help a lot and we are no longer getting embarrassed by FCS teams.
Where the concern lies is that this staff can no longer claim to be new to the school. When a staff starts out they can sell the idea that they are a new program with new ideas
If we don't start to win some games soon the chances of turning recruiting around, even with the new facilities will be gone. Quality recruits are going to look at us as a losing program with a losing staff. The idea that we are ready to turn around isn't going to hold any water.
Thats what Lucille is for.
Is there a precedent for this? Can anyone think of a coordinator getting promoted to HC on the same team?
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Skippy wasn't a coordinator here.
I guess he was never OC.... oh well.
Generally only when the HC retires, and it's rare then (Jimbo Fisher immediately comes to mind). I can't think of a single example of a college HC fired and coordinator non-temporarily promoted, although it's happened a few times in the no fun league (Wade Phillips after Dan Reeves is the easy example there).
I see us in a unique situation. Most people int he coaching community might respect JL mor than coach Mac. My big question is how much RG orchestrated the DC hire vs Mac. It would definitely be a unique and creative approach that isn't set up to work in most case, but might be in this one.
I don't buy this theory. Either support your coach and do whatever you can to help him be successful, or replace him. Planting a potential replacement on his staff sounds like a bush league move and I think Rick George is better than that.
After I thought about it some more, I realized a second grouping of coordinators being tapped for HC: when the HC leaves for a "better" job. Gundy and Peterson come to mind.
Firing your HC and promoting a coordinator is definitely more of an NFL move though; still trying to think of an example of that happening in college (there's got to be a few, it can't have never happened). I would expect it to be every bit as awkward as it is when an NFL team does it, which is to say really ****ing awkward, and their players are professionals, not 19-22 year old kids...
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Dana Holgerson at WVU was hired as the OC under Bill Stewart with the specific intent of him being the next HC.
HCMM is the one that had the personal ties to JL from their time in the Bay Area. They went to the same church and had a friendship outside of football. While RG probably went to bat for JL with the administration, HCMM is the reason JL is at CU.
He has? Id say he's poured the footers at best. There is still a lot left to build. Unfortunately, he's recruited just 2.5 classes. None shined. But we have that hope thingy. I hope to god Im wrong and that they pull 5 wins out of their ass this year (or more). That would be something that could be built on in the next recruiting cycle.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again; MM might only be the guy that comes and goes but leaves the program in better shape than he found it. He has to start winning games AND he has to start to improve recruiting to keep winning. I am perfectly content with him getting 2015 and 2016.
Suppose it depends on what you consider a foundation.
If he were to leave tomorrow the program would be well ahead of where he found it.
There would be substantially more PAC12 level athletes on the roster
Work ethic is much higher, players expect to work and practice
Roster turnover due to negative factors such as academic and legal issues is much lower
Relations with HS coaches in our primary recruiting areas is much healthier
In business you hire different CEOs for companies based on what those companies need at the time, and this is true whether it's a new, old, growing, shrinking, whatever type business.
Taking nothing but an idea and create a successful company is not necessarily the same talent as taking that same growing company through an IPO, and it's also not the same talent as managing a large NYSE traded company - Bill Gates is the exception, not the rule. A "turn-around expert" who can stabilize a crashing company and get it back to profitability may not also be able to start growing those profits once they are back.
Meficine is the same way
Lots of ER doctors fully admit that they would be worthless at the scene of an accident, they need the paramedics to stabilize the patient and start the treatment. Some ER docs could do both of those jobs, but even fewer are capable of carrying out any necessary reconstructive surgery after the initial treatment. And then there's the whole group of every day doctors who try and keep already generally healthy people healthy.
Why should football coaches be any different?
To use the medical analogy, I think MM has proven himself to be a good paramedic and maybe even ER doc. The question to be answered over the next two seasons is of he's capable of doing the reconstruction and rehabilitation work necessary to return the program to full health.
If he's not capable of that, it doesn't mean he's not a highly talented coach - his talents would simply be suited to a different situation than ours has become (thanks to his good work).
Taking nothing but an idea and create a successful company is not necessarily the same talent as taking that same growing company through an IPO, and it's also not the same talent as managing a large NYSE traded company - Bill Gates is the exception, not the rule. A "turn-around expert" who can stabilize a crashing company and get it back to profitability may not also be able to start growing those profits once they are back.
Meficine is the same way
Lots of ER doctors fully admit that they would be worthless at the scene of an accident, they need the paramedics to stabilize the patient and start the treatment. Some ER docs could do both of those jobs, but even fewer are capable of carrying out any necessary reconstructive surgery after the initial treatment. And then there's the whole group of every day doctors who try and keep already generally healthy people healthy.
Why should football coaches be any different?
To use the medical analogy, I think MM has proven himself to be a good paramedic and maybe even ER doc. The question to be answered over the next two seasons is of he's capable of doing the reconstruction and rehabilitation work necessary to return the program to full health.
If he's not capable of that, it doesn't mean he's not a highly talented coach - his talents would simply be suited to a different situation than ours has become (thanks to his good work).
Addendum to my already too long post: I think what drives me a little nuts with slider et. al. is the unwillingness to acknowledge that taking a program off life support and getting it to a stable condition is not something every (or even "most") good coach can do. We hired a coach that was/is very good at that particular job. I wish that would be acknowledged by the "MM isn't the right coach" crowd.
It's only now that we'll see if he has the aptitude and ability to do more than that. He might, he might not. And, to the 'tini crowd, Taking SJSU to a ranked team does not count as evidence. That's like an ER doc doing enough work for a weekend warrior to go out and place in their local 5K - success, yes, but definitely not the same thing as returning an Olympic class athlete to form.
My own evaluation to date is that he has done a good job so far, but the jury is definitely out as to whether he can/will continue that improvement. The early signs on that front are mixed: he did make a needed course correction with his staff, but recruiting has been below average at best.
It's only now that we'll see if he has the aptitude and ability to do more than that. He might, he might not. And, to the 'tini crowd, Taking SJSU to a ranked team does not count as evidence. That's like an ER doc doing enough work for a weekend warrior to go out and place in their local 5K - success, yes, but definitely not the same thing as returning an Olympic class athlete to form.
My own evaluation to date is that he has done a good job so far, but the jury is definitely out as to whether he can/will continue that improvement. The early signs on that front are mixed: he did make a needed course correction with his staff, but recruiting has been below average at best.
fatbuff
Member
I consider leaving the team better than he found it to mean that the talent was upgraded. I think the talent is better coached, but I don't think the talent has been substantially upgraded. The next coaching prospects will be more concerned with talent than previous coaching.
How many CU coaches left the team better than when they found it? None since Mac obviously.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I think that is a big leap of faith on your part. Talent in the program is an issue.