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Has Hawk lost this team and is all progress lost?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by buffsyko, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    CU was 3-0, since then 1-4.

    The team looked like they didn't care and this was after 14-0.

    Progress has been made by hawk with recruiting,fans>school>community coming together etc...

    Has this been lost or is it just one game and everything is normal if we beat A&M next week?
     
  2. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Ask me two weeks from now. If we're 6-4, life is all right.

    However, if we're 4-5 or 4-6, we're in trouble. I want to see some consistent intensity from this team, starting with Hawk. Rip some ****ing heads off every once in a while.
     
  3. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

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    We have 2 weeks and 2 games we can win. Not going to be easy, especially with the Oline getting smoked every other play, but it can be done.

    One thing is for sure: Hawk needs to start putting passion in these guys. Red circle the NU game. I want blood and it starts next week.
     
  4. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Is hawk that type of coach? He seems emotinless on the sidelines.

    If we finish 6-6 and get a bowl game I'll let it go but,if we end up like you say 4-6 and and probably 4-8,we are in serious trouble.

    3-0 seems like last year right now.
     
  5. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what happens against A$M, CU needs to get better players in here.. Recruiting has been better according to the recruiting rankings since Barnett, but I would say the talent level overall hasn't changed that much (as we witnessed today vs Missouri).. Yes, I know its young, but CU still doesn't have the talent on the DL's or OL's or at receiver to be a big time team..


    And please pick a QB.. This subbing one in and one out does a disservice not only to the players involved but the team overall..
     
  6. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    I think he's in over his head, and I dont really think DH will succeed as a Big XII coach. Good PR, better recruiting but a terrible Head Coach. Bohn needs to start thinking about the next guy if Hwsheit doenst produce a decent season next year.
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Because you're going to donate money for Hawk's buyout, right?:lol: Yes, CU is definitely a school that can fire and hire coaches at will.:lol:
     
  8. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    If we can get rid of Barnett to the tune of $4million, then getting rid of DH for $500K is small potatoes. Hell, I bet there are boosters right that are already thinking about that.

    Or perhaps you're right. We need to be in the MWC.
     
  9. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Here's the thing... I think the coaching staff as a whole is in over it's head.

    I like Hawk, I think he's good for CU. College football is 80% recruiting and Hawk is a recruiter. Hawk will NEVER be mistaken for an offensive or defensive guru.

    I think Hawk needs to have a VERY strong support from his coaching staff though. TO succeed, he needs a strong offensive and defensive staff. And that, CU does not have.

    Injuries have been a problem this year.
    QB has been a problem this year.
    Coaches have been a problem this year.

    I was all about replacing Cody, and I still think that needed to be done, but the more I see, the more I think there are serious deficiencies with the coaches.

    What factors fall on the coaches?
    -Scheme
    -Preparation
    -Accountability
    -Attitude

    This team is lacking in all of those areas. I think Helfrich needs to go. The vaunted ASU coaching staff from a few years ago has proven to be crap. I'd like to see Kiesau get a shot. Someone needs to do something about the defensive schemes. Defensively though, I think our position coaches are solid, as are most of the offensive position coaches.
     
  10. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Hawk is the kind of guy who is really going to lose his players... I just don't know about the people he's chosen to surround himself with, particularly Riddle and Helfrich.

    I also don't really like Hagan's inability to get along with the most talented player this team has had in years, despite his iconic status at CU.

    Run DS away from this program by underplaying him or misusing him and CU will take a HUGE step back. This kid is a good o-line away from being absolutely incredible.
     
  11. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    If DH is smart enough, he will make some changes in the off season and surround himself with better coaches. Maybe Cabral can be take a bigger role.
     
  12. 2HellNback

    2HellNback Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to write this on every thread until someone acknowledges the fact that this is a different offense than last year... In fact the 3rd offense in 3 years. What was wrong with last year's scheme? PS- it was more effective than the turd scheme they got out there...
     
  13. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Good point. I loved how we showed a different look from week to week last season. That really seemed to fit Hawks style of play imo. I'm curious if this is Helfrich or another asst. that sold Hawk on the spread O.

    I remember hearing we totally changed our O for DScott. It seems like a mistake right now, but how good would this O be with Miller and MTM starting right now? I'd like to think we'd be a little better.
     
  14. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think we changed our O for DS. We are running an O that features a QB, not the RB.

    DS is a back that will shine with good blocking between the tackles and opportunities to play in open space. We have provided him with neither.
     
  15. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    As most of the so called experts would say; The HC should show significant signs of improvement by their 3rd year. I'm going to play the devils advocate here and give Hawkins the benifit of the doubt, for two reasons, injuries and schedule. The key injuries to the O line and a few defensive positions combined with the tough schedule is somewhat of a double whammy. I'm not happy about how this season has gone, however, next year's season may decide wheather or not Hawkins & staff are still here in 2010.
     
  16. neil29fp

    neil29fp Club Member Club Member

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    Buffwings,

    I can't wait till next year when we have a healthy, more experienced team overall (especially o-line and qb) and you'll probably be all over DH's nuts. If you look at all of the teams in the Big XII that are successful the all have one commonality--they've been at their school for a considerable amount of time. I believe it takes about 6 years for a team to truly show the identity of a coach. All of our top recruits from last year haven't even played yet save Scott (and he has been injured and running behind a decimated o-line and even then you see that he has great vision). Go support someone like USC so we don't have to hear your bitchin'.
     
  17. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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  18. buffsfan01

    buffsfan01 Member

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    i been saying this for weeks ds will leave us after this year........ and i will watch him succeed just like i did are other back that went to Wis....hawk you stink as a coach . if you fans think ds is gonna stay you didnt follow him to much he changed hs because of one coach remember?here are plays run left, run up middle,run right,punt,next time we get the ball..pass left,2nd and 10 qb sacked,3rd and 18 ds run up middle,punt.next time we get the ball ds runs gets 1o yrds,ds come sit down your done for the day cmere speedy now your our rb......
     
  19. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    Brian Calhoun
     
  20. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    I have never been "all over DH's nuts." I was impressed when he beat OU and got the recruiting class, and said the program is heading in the right direction. NOW, there's no proof of that. In fact, quite the opposite. He has brought us more embarassment that Barnett ever did. Montana State; followed by a 2-10 season, barely beating a mediocre EWU team on his 3rd season, ending our 20 yr scoring streak, and getting creamed by Mizzou twice (this year is even worse)!! There is no consistency in any of DH's teams.

    First it was 3yrs for a coach to show his true colors, then its 4 yrs or even 5 yrs. NOW you f-in saying its 6 yrs?! That's BS. The Goon has managed to improve his team in one MFing year! Stop licking his balls and hold him and his coaches accountable. He gets paid plenty to be able to take criticism and even get fired when he doesnt produce. CEOs get fired all time when they dont produce even after 2yrs. Fortunately, this time its only a $500K severance pay. If he doesnt get at least 8 wins next year, he needs to go.

    I will only be "all over DH's nuts" when he wins the conference and has our team in the top 25 on a consistant basis. Until then, I will continue to bash this coaching staff when they dont produce. I'm sure DH can handle it, he's a big boy. "It's the Big XII, go play intramurals buddy!" Right he is playing intramurals with these kids. I dont think I have to worry about being all over his nuts because I dont believe he will succeed at this level, so you can continue to suck his sac and believe he's a top coach that will bring us back to even respectability, let alone greatness. BUT, the bigger question is what will you do when DH doenst produce in the next couple of years and underwhelms everyone with doing less with more?

    He can't handle competing at this level, he and his coaches have no idea what they are doing.
     
  21. Buffocrat

    Buffocrat Member

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    So now everyone wants to rope Hawk to a post and set the fire? Bull

    Look, go to rivals.com and look at the recruiting classes of 2004-2006. These are your supposed seniors, juniors, and 3rd year sophomores. Look at it and look hard. Those three classes (2.5 of which go to Barney) have been epic disasters. You cannot compete that way!

    Look at the most embarrasing losses that took place yesterday

    Florida 63 - Kentucky 5
    Oklahoma 58 - KSU 35
    Texas Tech 63 Kansas 21
    Notre Dame 33 - Washington 7
    Missouri 58 - Colorado 0

    What do they all have in common?
    The teams on the left have extremely fertile recruiting grounds and/or the money/support/system to remain competitive
    The teams on the right do not

    Look on a map at the surrounding states and ask yourself where does CU pull in the great player that wants to stay close to home but also get away? It doesn't exist. You could say California or Texas, but several schools have stepped in and have taken CU's place over these last 11 years of mediocrity with players in those two states.

    Y'all keep looking at Missouri as this "they'll return back to mediocrity" program, but they won't. They've got a nice little area from Illinois, Missouri, and Arkansas to stay competitive. And they've got some roots in Texas too!

    This is bigger than Dan Hawkins. And yeah he and his association of coaches look like a deer in headlights, but you've got to give him time. Whoever would come in next after Hawk is fired would have the same issues. And any decent coach in his right mind wouldn't want to deal with that.

    Pay special attention to this years recruiting class. This will be Hawk's "depth" class. If he can reel in a top 35 and up class and minimize the amount of losses (transfers, dropouts, etc.) after this season, you can calm down. If CU is still scrambling for guys to sign in late february, and you see a bunch of 6-0 tall and below guys being signed then yeah it's going to be a rough ride it might be a sign that progress has slowed.

    Here was my prediction for 2008 before the season started: 5-7
    2009: 7-5/8-4 (one of those games will be a "luck" loss or win)
    2010: 9-3/10-2
    2011: 10-2 or higher

    Give the man time

    ETA Longshot: If Bienemy has any inklings of being an offensive coordinator and progressing his career, give it to him and the second highest paid position on the team. He can get into homes that no one on the staff can. And that's what's really needed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
    Buttermaker likes this.
  22. BuffsRising

    BuffsRising Well-Known Member

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    I agree that I think that with last year's scheme we would be in better shape. We need to disguise what we are doing, where the qb is going to be, what the snap count is, etc. and that is really hard when you are in the shotgun 70% of the time and the "I" 30%. Teams are teeing off on our line because they know what's coming, and that is killing our offense. No matter who the qb is, they have no time and can't get into a rhythm. I am not a big fan of the spread in general though.
     
  23. 2HellNback

    2HellNback Well-Known Member

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    BINGO... But they've run 3 different offensive schemes in Hawk's 3 years? Who's to say they will stick with this one? Next year we will probably be running the wishbone or the entire game from goal line sets if it were up to Helfrich... Sometimes you want to run a certain offense and you just don't have the personnel. therefore good coaching adapts to the players they have (PS-don't have the receivers to run the spread, flat out. Even when QB gets time, we don't have guys open.)
     
  24. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    I believe that Hawk gets a bit of a pass this year considering the schedule and injuries. We're about where we thought this team would be at 4-4, although I expected more competitiveness and a better showing on the offensive side of the ball. Therefore we have more the look of a weak and fading 4-4 team than a respectable 4-4 team that has played a tough schedule. So even though some rumblings may start about Hawk, he's not in any jeopardy of losing his job and I don't think he should be, but I also think he needs to show some significant improvement on the field and win 8 or 9 games next year or else the heat on him will become intense, as it should.
     
  25. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    After 2010/2011 the best players on this team right now will all be gone. If Hawk doesn't step up and continue recruiting well CU will be good in 2010 (possibly 2011 depending on who stays and who leaves) and then they will suck really badly again.

    1 stellar recruiting class isn't enough. He needs to do it year in year out.

    Recruiting this year is NOT going to be what it was last year.
     
  26. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Huh? One thing we can't slam Hawkins is his recruiting efforts. He's raised the bar for our program in that area. We haven't seen these kind of results since Mac and Skippy.
     
  27. ladyblaise

    ladyblaise Club Member Club Member

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    :woot: well said. at our watch party last night, we predicted the all-too-common meltdown here. the good news is that allbuffs has grown. with it comes some stoudt posters such as yourself. THANK YOU for posting something real as opposed to a pre-menopausal meltdown.

    the bad news is with our growth, assclowns are on the loose. gah.

    keep posting buffocrat. anyone who expects instant success (and expecting a 180 degree turnaround in 3-4 years is truly insane) needs their head examined. chilly made the following point last nite: two years ago people in mizzou could not get rid of pinkel fast enough.

    guess those fans look as assinine as the boobers here.
     
  28. iggy

    iggy Member

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    like i said... if only barnett was a good recruiter.
     
  29. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Going from 6 wins to 7 wins iS insane? A winning season in year 3 is insane? That's bogus, 1 more win is asking for a 180 degree turn-around? Firing hawk will make things worse and it shouldn't be even brought up yet...
     
  30. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Yeah, what a jerk buffwings is for wanting a better product in year 3. Good thing we have superfans like you to set everyone straight. I'll keep saying it, I only asked for a winning season in year 3,that's 1 more win.

    We stand at 4-4, do we win 3 more games? Do we win 2? I think the "possibility" of cu being better next year is there with our OL returning and some of the players you mentioned becoming stronger and more experienced. Problem is, the mantra next year will be the defense is too young.

    Nobody's asking for a big 12 title, just go out and at least be competitive and not use losing 2 OL as an excuse for the offense becoming so awful.

    Adapt , overcome, improvise.
     

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