1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Here is what is going on....

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by leftybuff, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    25,004
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    There are two things happening.

    1. CU leadership is populated by political pantywaists who, even if they knew the right thing to do, must stick their finger in the air to see who's *** to kiss first. Benson's statement saying "It wasn't me, it was Mike" is the kind of pantywaist weakness you get from a political hack who has sucked up too many times to remember what it is like to make a tough decision. CYA pure and simple.

    2. People who have options are exercising them. Grimes, Helfrich, Brown, Spond, Jones and probably more, are hitting the exits.

    The leftovers will be leading the charge.

    In my humble opinion, everyone associated with this monumental cluster should be gone. Every observer who had a brain in their head KNEW what had to be done. They failed to do it. Benson, DiStefano, Bohn and Hawkins should all be gone.

    Find out who your regent is and start giving them an earful.

    All of the above is just my opinion.
     
  2. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    This is exactly why you have to cut your losses when you believe that a coach is not going to be "the guy". You let it linger and things start falling apart.
     
  3. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    16,901
    Likes Received:
    227
    :yeahthat:


    All we are doing is just delaying the inevitable.. Hawk did some good things here with PR and ending the black cloud scandal from the Barnett era. But he has no clue in how to build a major football program.. And that's exactly what we need right now..
     
  4. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    You hit the nail on the head--"he doesn't know how to BUILD A PROGRAM".

    Building a program is not the same as being a coach.

    Mack Brown is the master at program building, but I'm not sure he's a better "coach" than Hawk.

    In the business world it's kind of like taking an excellent sales guy and putting him into a sales management position. Sometimes these guys suck because they know how to sell, not manage.
     
  5. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Well, maybe we can swap coaches with you guys then. We'll both come out ahead.
     
  6. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Bull****. Mack didnt build that program. The program built Mack. The inherent recruiting advantage of having the best HS football players in your back yard cant be overstated. Hawk's lack of recruiting success in the Lone Star State is a killer.
     
  7. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    33,970
    Likes Received:
    3,292
    Woah ...
     
  8. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,760
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Nope. Look at Brown's success at North Carolina and then add in the fact that Texas had horrible relationships with high school coaches in Texas before he arrived. Their in-state recruiting had really deteriorated. He not only re-built those relationships, but they might be stronger now than at any point in that program's history.
     
  9. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    We sucked for 15 years before Mack. Since Mack we have more wins than anyone in college football, a national championship and a couple of more BCS bowl wins and are about to play in another NC game. Several guys tried and failed before Mack. Yes, Mack and Texas need each other, but Texas without Mack, or someone like him, is not much, even with the local access to recruits.
     
  10. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    That's the whole ballgame right there. You nailed it 100%.

    I'm telling you there is nobody better in the business at this specific aspect of "program building". If you have a head coach who gets this then you have a consistent winner. BUILD THE PIPELINE! You can always hire the right OC or DC to do the actual coaching work, which is exactly what Brown does.
     
  11. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Colorado born DeLoss Dodds. Tx is extremely strong in basketball and baseball as well. Mack Brown's recruiting only goes so far, the program support is the real reason for the success. Without Vince Young, Im not so sure Mack still has his job.
     
  12. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Damn, that sounds easy. Why arent we doing that?
     
  13. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    Mack could not have excelled to this degree without all of the advantages of UT (population, location, money, support, etc.)

    That said, those same advantages were there for other guys who failed...for a long time. Heck, we went 30+ years without a NC.

    Mack is making UT the best UT can be. The best UT can be is probably a lot better than most schools given the obvoius advantages Texas has.

    Here is my response to your VY comment: Mack recruited VY and about 15 other guys from that championship team who are now in the NFL. In years past VY is playing for Miami, FSU, ND, OSU, CU, Mich., etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  14. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    If it was so easy the guys before Mack would have done it.
     
  15. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    9
    IMO, CU already had their man in GB.
     
  16. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    47,534
    Likes Received:
    1,000,005
    Agree with most of this, except the parts about Benson and Distefano needing to be fired over this. Their jobs entail a lot more than athletics. They are primarily responsible for academics, fundraising, etc. If they are doing those jobs well, firing them over a football coach would be wrong. But what they DO need to do is get the **** out of the way of the athletic department, if they did interfere in this decision.... :sad2:
     
  17. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    505
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle
     
  18. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    25,004
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    Here is why I think they should go. Right or wrong, the FB team is the most visible, and as far as the alumni are concerned, accessible reflection of the University. IF the two admins I metioned got involved, then they do not understand the University wide effect of their meddling. Donors are voting with their dollars because that is the only vote they have.

    Sending the message loud and clear that mediocrity, or in this case, sub-mediocrity, will be tolerated reflects poorly on the whole University. I happen to believe Bohn was overruled. These two political ivory tower hacks have created a situation where the University has lost a TON in donations, prestige and reputation. They were in charge, it happened on their watch, they bear the penalty.
     
  19. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,779
    Likes Received:
    73
    Halftime of the CSU game this year... Maybe the second quarter of the Toledo game but for sure sometime in between those two points. Should have been fired after the Toledo game for sure. Probably would have had a better season, and would be light years ahead in recruiting if leadership had done their job right.
     
  20. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26,471
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    Mack Brown and Hawkins are exact opposites. As far as making a decision in a game situation or working directly with a kid one on one I would take Hawkins every time. When Hawkins leaves this job he will probably end up back in coaching, either as a head coach at a smaller school or as a coordinator for a BCS program, both jobs he has proven he can handle and someone will get a good coach.

    I would not want Mack Brown as my coordinator or as a head coach of a small program. What Mack Brown has proven himself to be is a program manager. What he does in bring in the right people to do the jobs he needs done. He motivates them, he gives them guidence, and then he lets them do their job and holds them accountable. Texas is a good match for Mack because they have enough money that he can get the assistants that he wants and the resources to attract the players to make what he does work.

    The problems in the CU program have nothing to do with talent (even though it has been lacking at some positions.) Rather they have been directly attributable to management. A lack of willingness to put and use the right people (players and coaches) in the position to succeed and holding them responsible. This is something that is highly unlikely to change as long as the man with the ultimate responsibility for what happens on the field is unwilling or unable to change.

    Beyond this the people above Hawkins, DiStefano, and especially Benson suffer from the same unwillingness or inability to recognize and act on the problem. Until the regents are willing to force action we are stuck with missmanagement and poor performance.
     
  21. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36,156
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    So what your saying is Dan Hawkins plugged in at UT would be just as successful as Mac Brown? :rofl2:

    Let me clue you in on something. Mac coached at UNC, a team that had as much grid iron success as KSU. I'll post his record at UNC as it speaks for itself.

    1988 North Carolina 1–10 1–6 7th
    1989 North Carolina 1–10 0–7 8th
    1990 North Carolina 6–4–1 3–3–1 5th
    1991 North Carolina 7–4 3–4 5th
    1992 North Carolina 9–3 5–3 3rd W Peach 18 19
    1993 North Carolina 10–3 6–2 2nd L Gator 21 19
    1994 North Carolina 8–4 5–3 3rd – T L Sun 21
    1995 North Carolina 7–5 4–4 5th – T W Carquest
    1996 North Carolina 10–2 6–2 2nd – T W Gator 10 10
    1997 North Carolina 10–1 7–1 2nd * 6 4

    No one handed him anything at UNC.
     
  22. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    25,004
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    Mack Brown recruited like a mutha at UNC. When he left for UT, UNC had talent on par with FSU, which back then, was saying something.
     
  23. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36,156
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Those last two seasons he had 3 losses. Two of which came at the hands of ACC champion FSU.
     
  24. Highflyer

    Highflyer Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    11,418
    Likes Received:
    442
    There's no if. Benson is the culprit here. Distefano has no spine and Benson basically said he was not wasting political capital on firing a football coach. You won't see this in the papers but this is what happened. Bohn has been completely neutered, as he was all set to fire Hawkins.
     
  25. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    25,004
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    If that was true, and I were Bohn, I would have resigned the day after I was forced to announce Hawkins was going to be retained. AD's live and die by their FB related decisions and the admin is making MB look and act as if he were incompetent. Very bad career move to hang around and haul around an albatross your boss saddled you with.

    It's one thing to have a budget item request overruled. It's another thing altogether to have the number one thing you do overruled. That is especially true when that one thing you are judged by gets screwed up beyond imagination by your boss, and then the boss goes public and blames you to boot to save his own hide.

    I understand **** runs downhill, there just comes a point when you move off the hill. MB has considerable skills, he'd land on his feet IMO. Then again, it's not my job so it's easy to pontificate. What a mess this is.
     
  26. HotRack

    HotRack Rez BubbleHead Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,036
    Likes Received:
    476
    It's going to be interesting to see what happens when Benson expends his supposed "political captial" and gets jack and **** from the legislature in the way of funding. State has never supported CU and never will.
     
  27. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    47,534
    Likes Received:
    1,000,005
    Then I'll go with what I said earlier. He needs to stay the **** out of the way of the athletic department and let the department head run it.

    Yeah, I get that he'll have polotical fallout to deal with if Bohn makes the move to fire Hawk, but I can't imagine that he'd be able to go very long forcing any other department head to make personnel decisions solely on the basis of making his job easier.... :huh:
     
  28. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36,156
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    No need to do that when your contract expires in June and probably leave money on the table. I've been waiting for the announcement that he intends to leave any day now.

    There is more to this story that we do not know.
     
  29. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    25,004
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    I imagine you are right. If Benson really did this, Bohn is getting royally shafted. I hope he's out there looking for the next gig.
     
  30. Buffalo Brad

    Buffalo Brad Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    8,950
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    I agree that there is more to the story. I think Bohn is going to be gone, we will have to live with Hawk for the next season and the new AD will have started putting his imprint on the athletic department - in other words Hawk will be gone. This accomplishes a couple of things for Benson. Lets him get a new AD (face it, none of Bohn's hires are working. All of the higher profile teams are losing right now.). Minimizes fallout with the legislature by reducing the Hawk payout by another million. No buyout for Bohn and the new AD gets to pick his own man as football coach.

    I am not defending any of the crap that is going on and am probably giving way too much credit to the Admin, but it is what I am hoping is the case. That means the hole gets bigger over the next year, but hopefully we start to right the ship soon after.

    I am grasping and hoping that we are not doomed to this failure long term so I am trying to put some lipstick on the pig! :huh:
     

Share This Page