Idiotic coaching

[Buffenuf]

1. I agree with 'Tini, there was an error on the refs part. However, I think we all agree that they're not to blame for this, but DD did run right out of bounds and then the whistle was blown. There was never an opportunity for forward progress to be stopped.

2. I think we're seeing a problem with the dependency on plays being constantly signaled from the sideline. Has Sefo ever been empowered to react to that situation? HCMM was calling in a play he didn't understand. I'd bet that Sefo would be the first to tell you that he brainfarted this one, and he certainly knows he should have spiked the ball. But I think the problem was a seam in the broader system.

You see the video? MM yelled and gesticulated "SPIKE IT!" a dozen times, easily. What part of "Spike it" did Sefo not understand?


The only explanation is that Sefo did not look at the coach on the sideline, rather, he was too busy arguing with the refs about the call.

 

[Deleted member 807]

You see the video? MM yelled and gesticulated "SPIKE IT!" a dozen times, easily. What part of "Spike it" did Sefo not understand?


The only explanation is that Sefo did not look at the coach on the sideline, rather, he was too busy arguing with the refs about the call.

 

[Uncle Ken]

You see the video? MM yelled and gesticulated "SPIKE IT!" a dozen times, easily. What part of "Spike it" did Sefo not understand?


The only explanation is that Sefo did not look at the coach on the sideline, rather, he was too busy arguing with the refs about the call.

Is that really the "only" explanation? You're really limiting the options here.

Let's say that every time Sefo has looked to the sidelines for a playcall in the last two seasons, it was a standardized call that he knew, because he'd studied it. Is it possible that the system didn't prepare him for a panicked non-standard call that he wasn't prepared to interpret?

Don't get me wrong, nearly 40,000 people in the stadium knew that he needed to spike the ball, but it's different if you're the guy in the spotlight, and the entire system has just changed on you.

 

[Uncle Ken]

Like my balls! Like my balls! (points for emphasis)

Clearly this is a reference to the photo on Facebook that his daughter posted. Sorry coach, we can't--the photo was taken down.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Is that really the "only" explanation? You're really limiting the options here.

Let's say that every time Sefo has looked to the sidelines for a playcall in the last two seasons, it was a standardized call that he knew, because he'd studied it. Is it possible that the system didn't prepare him for a panicked non-standard call that he wasn't prepared to interpret?

Don't get me wrong, nearly 40,000 people in the stadium knew that he needed to spike the ball, but it's different if you're the guy in the spotlight, and the entire system has just changed on you.

Are you really here telling all of us that when Sefo looked over at the sideline, and saw the head coach wildly yelling "SPIKE IT" over and over and over again --- Sefo had absolutely no idea what he was supposed to do?

Really?

 

[slider]

Sefo froze. End of story

 

[BuffNut99]

That GIF of Mac is happening as the game clock is under 5-7 seconds, just before the penalty. The next frame in Mac spiking his headset. Sefo was not looking at the sideline, he was trying to call an audible.

 

[Uncle Ken]

Are you really here telling all of us that when Sefo looked over at the sideline, and saw the head coach wildly yelling "SPIKE IT" over and over and over again --- Sefo had absolutely no idea what he was supposed to do?

Really?

Did you watch the .gif?

To my point, you look to the sidelines for two seasons and are rewarded with a playcall that meets the expectation. And suddenly you see that?

I said from the beginning that this was a Sefo brainfart. But I am trying to examine why a young man whose on-field presence tends to be calm could make that mistake. I think it's understandable.

 

[Uncle Ken]

That GIF of Mac is happening as the game clock is under 5-7 seconds, just before the penalty. The next frame in Mac spiking his headset. Sefo was not looking at the sideline, he was trying to call an audible.

Sefo did look at the sideline and was clearly confused by what he seeing. I was right there screaming "spike it" with everybody else, and wishing we had the timeout back.

 

[sackman]

There was no error on the ref's part. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. DD's forward progress was stopped while he was in bounds. He was pushed backwards out of bounds. The call by the referee there was as it should have been. He initially signalled to stop the clock because of the first down - the right call - and then wound the clock to signal that once the ball was placed and the chains moved, the clock was to begin moving again. This is exactly the right move. He got it right. All of it. There's no blaming the ref for this.

 

[Uncle Ken]

There was no error on the ref's part. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. DD's forward progress was stopped while he was in bounds. He was pushed backwards out of bounds. The call by the referee there was as it should have been. He initially signalled to stop the clock because of the first down - the right call - and then wound the clock to signal that once the ball was placed and the chains moved, the clock was to begin moving again. This is exactly the right move. He got it right. All of it. There's no blaming the ref for this.

DD made a beeline for the sideline, and was stepping out even as he got hit. You and I saw that very differently.

Also, you routinely see players trying to drag players down before they get out of bounds. In my observation, when a player gets out of bounds before a knee goes down, the clock stops.

Obviously I've seen forward progress applied, but never the way it was here.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I don't understand what all the confusion is.

THE REFEREE DETERMINED HIS FORWARD PROGRESS HAD BEEN STOPPED. THE REFEREE SIGNALED FOR THE GAME CLOCK TO RESUME.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

There was no hidden signal. The referee signaled right there where Goodson went out of bounds. It's not like this was hidden and nobody saw it. Anybody who was looking saw it.

I guess you can argue that his forward progress WASN'T stopped -- but that's not what the referee on the field called -- so it's completely irrelevant to what happened afterwards.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

DD made a beeline for the sideline, and was stepping out even as he got hit. You and I saw that very differently.

Also, you routinely see players trying to drag players down before they get out of bounds. In my observation, when a player gets out of bounds before a knee goes down, the clock stops.

Obviously I've seen forward progress applied, but never the way it was here.

That's not what happened. DD was making a beeline for the GOALLINE - he was hit and brought to a complete stop - and he took two steps BACKWARD out of bounds.

If DD had RUN OUT OF BOUNDS, instead of being hit in bounds, and stepping BACKWARD to get out of bounds - I think the argument that he went out of bounds vs. had his forward momentum stopped would some ounce of merit, but is still entirely irrelevant to the referee's call on the field.

 

[sackman]

DD made a beeline for the sideline, and was stepping out even as he got hit. You and I saw that very differently.

Also, you routinely see players trying to drag players down before they get out of bounds. In my observation, when a player gets out of bounds before a knee goes down, the clock stops.

Obviously I've seen forward progress applied, but never the way it was here.

DD was pushed backwards out of bounds. I don't remember the exact yard lines, but for the sake of example, he had made it to around the 15 yard line and was pushed out at around the 17 yard line. That's why the forward progress was called. Had he made it to the 15 yard line and gone out of bounds at the 15 yard line, it would have stopped the clock.

The ref got the call 100% correct.

 

[Uncle Ken]

That's not what happened. DD was making a beeline for the GOALLINE - he was hit and brought to a complete stop - and he took two steps BACKWARD out of bounds.

If DD had RUN OUT OF BOUNDS, instead of being hit in bounds, and stepping BACKWARD to get out of bounds - I think the argument that he went out of bounds vs. had his forward momentum stopped would some ounce of merit, but is still entirely irrelevant to the referee's call on the field.

First off, I agree completely that this is a team error.

I saw a clip of the play, where was that? I'd be more interested in discussing it with the clip as a reference.

DD was pushed backwards out of bounds. I don't remember the exact yard lines, but for the sake of example, he had made it to around the 15 yard line and was pushed out at around the 17 yard line. That's why the forward progress was called. Had he made it to the 15 yard line and gone out of bounds at the 15 yard line, it would have stopped the clock.

The ref got the call 100% correct.

As I state above, I'd like to discuss this with the video available.

 

[DBT]

I wish I could see the "out of bounds" play. We were all the way at the other goal line. At the time, I thought he was coming back to the ball and was headed out of bounds when he was hit.

Look at the bright side, this happened in a season that won't lead to a bowl game or anything. Maybe, next year, in a similar situation, we will harken back to this **** up and do everything correctly because of the lesson learned.

 

[Uncle Ken]

I wish I could see the "out of bounds" play. We were all the way at the other goal line. At the time, I thought he was coming back to the ball and was headed out of bounds when he was hit.

Look ok at the bright side, this happened in a season that won't lead to a bowl game or anything. Maybe, next year, in a similar situation, we will harken back to this **** up and do everything correctly because of the lesson learned.

I had a good view at the game, and thought he was deliberately heading out of bounds. And then I'm pretty sure I saw a video clip and reached the same conclusion.

 

[Quattro]

There was no error on the ref's part. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. DD's forward progress was stopped while he was in bounds. He was pushed backwards out of bounds. The call by the referee there was as it should have been. He initially signalled to stop the clock because of the first down - the right call - and then wound the clock to signal that once the ball was placed and the chains moved, the clock was to begin moving again. This is exactly the right move. He got it right. All of it. There's no blaming the ref for this.

Uh no. The ref first of all screwed up some very basic clock fundamentals. One, he didn't blow his whistle to signal the end of the play. Two, he put his hands up signaling out of bounds and the spot. If DD didn't get out there is no reason for the ref to not immediately signal for the clock to run once the chains are set. So we've got officials who don't even have the basic fundamentals down. As fr DD, he bounced off the guys in front of him, then using his own momentum went out. Sefo screwed up, but so did the refs.

 

[DBT]

I had a good view at the game, and thought he was deliberately heading out of bounds. And then I'm pretty sure I saw a video clip and reached the same conclusion.

That's what I thought as well. That's why I made the "I don't like that rule" comment after the game. If the guy goes out before he's down or the whistle blows, then stop the clock. This whole "his forward progress was stopped" rule sucks, IMO. I'm sure he was trying to get out of bounds. Just because a defender hit him first shouldn't negate that. Of course, I'd be singing a different tune if we were on defense, :lol:

 

[DBT]

I think the refs should verbally warn the teams that the clock is live, myself. At least in, say, the last two minutes.

 

[sackman]

Uh no. The ref first of all screwed up some very basic clock fundamentals. One, he didn't blow his whistle to signal the end of the play. Two, he put his hands up signaling out of bounds and the spot. If DD didn't get out there is no reason for the ref to not immediately signal for the clock to run once the chains are set. So we've got officials who don't even have the basic fundamentals down. As fr DD, he bounced off the guys in front of him, then using his own momentum went out. Sefo screwed up, but so did the refs.

'Tini, there's only one way to say this, so I'll say it - you're wrong. You claiming a mistake when none was made doesn't automatically mean one occurred. It didn't. The play happened in front of me. It was the right call. He screwed up nothing. He stopped the clock because of the first down, and then IMMEDIATELY signalled that the clock was to start once the ball was set. He wound the clock and was even looking over at the CU sidelines as if to emphasize that DD did not make it out of bounds.

There is no blame to be placed on the referee in this situation. None. He made it perfectly clear. I knew what happened the second it happened.

 

[DBT]

'Tini, there's only one way to say this, so I'll say it - you're wrong. You claiming a mistake when none was made doesn't automatically mean one occurred. It didn't. The play happened in front of me. It was the right call. He screwed up nothing. He stopped the clock because of the first down, and then IMMEDIATELY signalled that the clock was to start once the ball was set. He wound the clock and was even looking over at the CU sidelines as if to emphasize that DD did not make it out of bounds.

There is no blame to be placed on the referee in this situation. None. He made it perfectly clear. I knew what happened the second it happened.

If that's what happened, and I immediately saw him signal to start the clock, then I agree with you.

 

[sackman]

I think the refs should verbally warn the teams that the clock is live, myself. At least in, say, the last two minutes.

they did. The side judge was moving out into the field winding the clock to make sure the CU sidelines knew what the call was. They weren't hiding anything. In fact, the guy was trying to make sure CU knew what was going on.

As much as we really want to blame somebody other than ourselves (or, in this case, Sefo) for this monstrous clusterfuk, there isn't anybody to blame but ourselves. We screwed up. It's all on us.

 

[DBT]

they did. The side judge was moving out into the field winding the clock to make sure the CU sidelines knew what the call was. They weren't hiding anything. In fact, the guy was trying to make sure CU knew what was going on.

As much as we really want to blame somebody other than ourselves (or, in this case, Sefo) for this monstrous clusterfuk, there isn't anybody to blame but ourselves. We screwed up. It's all on us.

The only argument would be that he went out on his own effort. But even if they messed that call up, it's still on us.

 

[DBT]

At any rate, it's unfortunate. But it wasn't "idiotic coaching." It was just one of those cluster ****s that happens and you learn from it and go on. :thumbsup:

If we'd scored, the game decisions would've changed. No one can predict how the game would've changed course. For instance, Mora would've kicked a FG toward the end.

 

[BlackNGold]

'Tini, there's only one way to say this, so I'll say it - you're wrong. You claiming a mistake when none was made doesn't automatically mean one occurred. It didn't. The play happened in front of me. It was the right call. He screwed up nothing. He stopped the clock because of the first down, and then IMMEDIATELY signalled that the clock was to start once the ball was set. He wound the clock and was even looking over at the CU sidelines as if to emphasize that DD did not make it out of bounds.

There is no blame to be placed on the referee in this situation. None. He made it perfectly clear. I knew what happened the second it happened.

:yeahthat: I went back and watched the play on the DVR. Goodson was hit in bounds and knocked back about 2 yards then stepped out of bounds. The ref gave him his forward progress to where he was originally hit. It was the right call.

 

[Quattro]

:yeahthat: I went back and watched the play on the DVR. Goodson was hit in bounds and knocked back about 2 yards then stepped out of bounds. The ref gave him his forward progress to where he was originally hit. It was the right call.

Then blow the damn whistle and signal a running clock! It's very simple.

 

[14er]

Does Nembot get a free pass on this?[emoji12]

Sent from my SM-N910V

 

[sackman]

Then blow the damn whistle and signal a running clock! It's very simple.

Just out of curiosity, how many times will you have to hear that he DID signal a running clock before you believe it?

You're right in one way - it's very simple. He made the right call. It's that simple.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Just out of curiosity, how many times will you have to hear that he DID signal a running clock before you believe it?

You're right in one way - it's very simple. He made the right call. It's that simple.

I heard from someone after the game (haven't seen a video) that the SJ signaled clock stop/out of bounds and another and another ref wound the clock. The right call was to have the clock run, but if another ref did signal something different than I can understand the confusion.

Still had plenty of time to spike it and get the FG unit out there. Sefo froze and that is all there is too it. Mac blew a TO earlier in the half which also would have come in handy.