1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Importance of Offer Lists

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by Duff Man, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,761
    Likes Received:
    4,754
    I think it is about time for you to either start commenting on an individual player's attributes in a given recruiting thread. In other words, try to keep threads on point.

    If you want to continue railing on offers/lack of offers in different threads while contributing little to the overall discussion, go do it somewhere else. We know where you stand.
     
  2. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    It's June 6th, give it a break.
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,782
    Likes Received:
    16,502
    Ignorant post.

    Taking a look at the Rivals database, here are the number of offers CU has out to 4* or higher prospects and how it compares to the previous recruiting years in that database:

    2012 Class: 67
    2011 Class: 17
    2010 Class: 62
    2009 Class: 35
    2008 Class: 37
    2007 Class: 29
    2006 Class: 21
    2005 Class: 11
    2004 Class: 23
    2003 Class: 34
    2002 Class: 38

    And this is on June 6th. Anyone trying to say that we're not going up against the elite programs for talent this year is just embarrassing himself.
     
  4. Buffy

    Buffy Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    8
    I know I'm new here.. But what did he say that was so bad?




    And I wasn't knocking Boise St, I know they have a great team with a great coach. It just seems like there's a number of kids we're both going after who say Boise is their favorite. Just getting sick of reading that..
     
  5. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,782
    Likes Received:
    16,502
    It wasn't directed at you, Buffy. It has just become tiresome that walk constantly feels a need to chime in every time a recruit is offered early who doesn't have other BCS offers. He has made it clear that watching the film doesn't interest him and that he doesn't trust our coaches' evaluations. It has gotten to the point (got there a while ago, actually) that his opinion adds nothing to the conversation.

    Regarding Boise State popping up this year, there are definitely a few guys we are going after who have them among their leaders. It's kind of unprecedented, really, how in the conversation they are. BSU almost never gets a 4* commitment and they already have one this year (Marcus Rios, who we offered). Their classes are usually about 50/50 between 3* and 2* prospects. It's not surprising to me that they're getting a long look from recruits. They've earned that. But at the end of the day, very few prospects choose non-BCS schools when they have other options.
     
  6. walk

    walk Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    9
    What I said (and continue to say) is that too many of our recruits do not have high caliber (or any) other BCS offers. Some people hate that point. If CU wants to compete with the USCs and the Oregons, then we need the players that could play there.

    I got ripped for making the same point with Hawkins' recruits. I challenged the rosy picture that any recruit who committed or was offered deserved applause. Some don't think this forum is the proper place for such negativity.

    I think we need to be honest about recruiting. I just wish we were taking more recruits from elite BCS schools. In the last three classes, I imagine there is only 2-3 players that could've have gone anywhere. Also, there have been way too many players no BCS offers:

    2012
    Norgard - no other BCS offers.
    Hennington - no other BCS offers.

    2011
    Burnette - no other BCS offers
    Daigh - no other BCS offers.
    Dorman - no other BCS offers.
    Henderson - no ther BCS offers
    McColluch - no other BCS offers
    Washington - no other BCS offers.
     
  7. walk

    walk Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    9
    I will also stop my negativity about some recruits. For now on, I'll watch two mniutes of highlight reels, and say that so and so runs like Eddie George, catches like Jerry Rice.
     
  8. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,782
    Likes Received:
    16,502
    walk - your point is taken.

    But it's June 6th, man. It's ok to be the first BCS program to offer a guy. Someone has to be.

    Also, we're talking about verbal offers. Some guys we have offered (other BCS offers are not) are Plan B offers who we wouldn't accept commitments from until some dominoes fell and they came out on an official visit in the fall. And, as you know, some of the best players end up being guys like Jalil Brown and Scottie McKnight who didn't have any other BCS offers. We definitely need to be winning our share of recruiting battles against top programs, especially those that are in our conference, but making good talent evaluations and finding under-recruited players who fit the system is also a huge part of this. You don't seem to want to recognize that aspect of recruiting.
     
  9. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26,477
    Likes Received:
    2,366
    This should probably get split off by the mods onto another thread but to respond.

    Last years class was put together at the last minute. Even with that I thought that the staff brought in a bunch of guys who potentially could be quality players.

    Offer list are only as good as what the kid or his associates choose to report. I would be quite surprised if Daigh didn't have at least one other BCS offer and had he not been solidly committed to the Buffs he certainly would have had offers from other BCS schools as their other targets dropped off the board.

    For this year again our commits offer list have to looked at with a grain of salt. I have no question in my mind that had they not committed and were playing the field that both Norgard and especially hennington would have other BCS offers by now. We know that Dillon has a boatload of offers.

    Would I prefer that CU was playing the Texas game of deciding if they want to take a 4* at a position they need or a 5* at a position where they already have a bunch of 4 and 5 * guys. Unfortunately based on the last five years the current staff is going to have to rebuild our credibility before we can really get the attention of a lot of guys. Six months ago Embree and Bienenmy were busy coaching in the NFL, not contacting HS kids and their coaches like our competition was. The teams we are recruiting against for the most part have won a lot more games and been embarrassed a lot less on TV in the past few years and to a HS kid anything past 5 years is ancient history.

    My guess is that this years class will be very uneven. Some very good players who see huge potential in the new coaching staff and an opportunity to play early for a team on the rise along with some guys who might be seen as stopgap filling up the class. By this time next year the new staff will have established their system and recruits will be hearing from their friends on campus that CU has it together and is on the rise. Relationships will have been built and CU won't be the guy coming in late, and most importantly hopefully we will be showing on the field that we can beat the teams we should beat and are getting better for the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  10. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    22,246
    Likes Received:
    654
    But Jerry Rice went to little Mississippi Valley State. I heard he picked them over The North Texas State Mean Green, Marshall and Tulane. He even picked Miss Valleys hat on national singing day in the midst of all those other mighty schools. It was epic!
     
  11. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,761
    Likes Received:
    4,754
    Stop playing the martyr here. I like to think I have been pretty frank in my assessment of recruiting over the years. I am pretty sure I gave our last class a "D" for a grade, even with the shortened timeframe.

    The issue I take with your assessments is you rarely do any assessment of a prospect beyond looking at the offer lists. It is lazy analysis and makes you come off as uninformed. To compare two commits that we got in February/March for the 2012 class to players we took to fill out the 2011 class is apples to oranges. Of course we need to beat out great schools for recruits and no one would argue on that point, but to automatically dismiss each and every player with questionable offers at any time of year is ridiculous. At least take the time to dig deeper sometimes. Also, you seem to think the staff values every single recruit in the exact same way. It is simply not true, they have a "big board" like everyone else.

    Again, your argument that we need to improve recruiting is not why people do not take you seriously, it is the lazy analysis that you employ.

    You will not see me excusing a poor recruiting year for the 2012 class if it comes to pass (which I do not think it will). I did not excuse it for the 2009-2011 classes and I will not start now. But I can also be fair that not every overlooked player is complete crap.
     
  12. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    14,598
    Likes Received:
    934
    Not knocking anyone, but the "offers" list is kind of an inexact science. Some offers get reported on recruiting and fan sites, and some do not. Sure, if you have a highly rated player with an offer sheet containing all the big dogs, it's fairly certain that most or all of those schools have tendered a written offer. And consider that some of these recruiting sites put only a certain number of schools in a players bio, and you have more gray to sift through.

    I like seeing the Buffs going after players who have the attention of several D1 schools, but I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. If the coaches think the kid will make a difference at this level, then I trust their judgement. The coaches are a helluva lot better at this than I am.
     
  13. FlatironsBuff

    FlatironsBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    10,839
    Likes Received:
    1,302
    I am still taking this with a grain of salt too, as while CU fans are jacked about the Cu staff (as compared to what we had to put up with for the last few years), what recruits see is how much we win and how much we lose. We are not going to go out and compete for 4 and 5 stars exclusively until we are winning like LSU, Alabama, and Oregon for a few years. Until then we either have to be the first school in on some upcoming talent, and try to make them see that we loved them before anyone else did, or have some connection to CU that they love (family or the team they always followed). Face it-- kids are bandwagon fans for the most part and there has not been a reason to be a bandwagon fan for CU for many years. Years longer than these kids would have followed CU. IT will be an uphill battle this year. What cures that? Winning. Being tough and competitive, if we don't win. CU gets to a bowl game this year and some kids that are on the fence will look much closer at CU. They will have to be convinced that CU is improving and then some will be more comfortable with coming here. Understand how hard it is for a coach to sell "Come here and be part of something special building this team back to prominance!" that is gambeling, and kids don't want to gamble with thier possible future in the NFL. And 4 and 5 star kids are thinking NFL. Not taking chances. CU may be gambling that they kid is going to have a great senior year, and that they will garner alot of interest by the end of the HS season, so they offer now and show them love, and then they have an edge when it comes time to close the deal. But only show love for 4 and 5 stars and then you will get leftovers come signing day. Dan seemed to offer all the high stars-- and didn't close many of them. And then didn't have many 2 and 3 stars left to take.

    Like it or not, we have to let Embree and company do thier thing for two years minimum before we can bitch too much. They have to overcome the groundwork that Danny built. They have to pull some rabbits out of hats and beat the crap out of other teams for a year or two and then prospective players will know what we have. 4 and 5 star kids will have more comfort they are not gambling too much with thier future. We are competing with Boise? Why not? Boise will hardly lose a game. They will win. They will have kids on ESPN highlight reels every week. They will not have as may kids struggle with grades, which means less schoolwork and more time to play and party. Or at least, less chance of NOT playing due to academic problems. Kids don't always care about a degree. They want to win, win alot, be on ESPN, and play every week. Boise can offer that as much as anyone. If they play less than stellar competition? Who cares? If I was trying to get to the NFL, it is about wins and exposure. Not about quality losses.

    Just my opinion on how to percieve who we offer and why. Could be full of bullschit. has happened before.
     
  14. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    713
    Think you pretty much nailed it FIB. Callahan, for example, sees us as losers from grades 7-11. Does he look out of state if we're winning 9 games a year instead? Maybe, but on average that kind of kid wants to play for a great home state school.
     
  15. Init2Winit

    Init2Winit Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    6
    Walk,

    You think we need to really be HONEST about recruiting? Do you know any of these players? I'm pretty sure I remember Daigh having more offers than just CU, probably not "high enough caliber" for you, but based on his relatively early commitment and the fact that he stuck with us through a load of CRAP that went on last year, I don't really care. He's going to be a BEAST on the field, so lucky us for getting him and keeping him.

    Regarding the two 2012 you listed, Henington said in a Rivals interview that there were MANY schools that stopped by Mullen this spring and that he was going to listen to what they all had to say. Maybe he listened to what was said (or "offered", if you will) and was still confident in his decision to be a Buff? Norgard strikes me as the same kind of kid (wouldn't be surprised if he has other "offers" at this point, either) and especially loyal reading some of the interviews he's done, too (something to the effect of "I'd run through a brick wall for these guys"). Based on JE's comments about "jersey chasers" and collecting offers like trophies, these two don't seem like the type to be pub'ing themselves up just to make some armchair QB who might "imagine there is only 2-3 players that could've have gone anywhere" think they're worthy to play at CU. Some people are just confident in their decisions, even at age 17.

    You do realize that the only way offers are made "public" at this point in the recruiting calendar is if a player, a player's family member or player's coach goes to the media and makes it public, right? On that note, there is absolutely nothing stopping any of those people from taking a conversation with a coach and hearing it to mean there was an offer, whether there actually was one or not, and then going to someone in the scouting media and saying it occurred. A player (or family member) could say to anyone "I have offers from schools X, Y and Z" or "I'm going to be getting an offer from school A soon" and the coaches from those schools cannot comment in any way about that statement, or even the recruit for that matter, at this point in time. All offers are merely "verbal" right now and "verbal" can mean pretty much anything a player wants it to mean (and if you think that kind of media manipulation doesn't happen, think again. It happens a lot more than you would probably care to believe). So are you absolutely positive that all these other players you think CU should be after (that have "offers" from the big time schools you reference) actually HAVE those offers? As confident as you are that the kids you listed DON'T have any other offers? That's the real "honesty" in recruiting at this point in the game, Walk. But you believe whatever you want to believe, rather than taking the time to actually look at the caliber athlete based on his actual play on the field. That takes a little more effort than looking at a bunch of "offer lists"...someone as knowledgeable as you probably doesn't need to put in that kind of effort.

    I want players who buy into what these coaches have in mind, who are loyal to CU before AND after they arrive in Boulder. Players that can actually BRING IT on game day, not players that want to "talk about it" (or themselves) in the year or so before they even step on campus. There's not an actual "star measurement" for that kind of attitude and moral caliber, but those are the kind of players that can help make a team succeed.
     
  16. rodrigo

    rodrigo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    96
    This. Over and over and over again until it sinks in.
     
  17. JRK1212

    JRK1212 Troll

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    44
    I get your point, but for the record Scotty had an offer from Oregon that was contigent on him visitng (which he chose not to do).
     

Share This Page