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Intelligent Discussion on Pac-10

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by PhillyBuff, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    As soon as someone starts to discuss "dropping" a school from a conference, then the rest of the post is BS.

    The Pac-10 is NOT going to drop Washington State because they are a bad TV market.... sorry, aint gonna happen. By that theory, ESPN will invite the 12 largest TV markets for one conference and send the rest of us to Division 2 (they dont have division 2 anymore).

    The Pac-10 and Big 10 have to work within their framework to add a member(s). The prize is Texas, but Texas may be anchored to Texas A&M, Tech, and or Baylor.... we have no idea what Texas politicians will do. You forget we are dealing with Governments and not private business so there are some caveats to everything. If University of Texas were owned by Jerry Jones, then the University of Texas would have been in the Big 10 yesterday.

    There are so many factors affecting these decisions and any misstep could cause a huge upheaval in politics in the state of Texas. I can only judge by past history during the formation of the Big 12, that there will be problems with just Texas and (or) Texas A&M leaving. That factor may greatly benefit CU Utah, and or New Mexico.

    We are not in control here, despite what people may say. We probably are the Pac-10's SAFEST option to expand, but not the best.

    In an ideal world for Colorado fans, Texas backstabbing will cause CU to get an invitation to the Pac-10 and we can happily thank them for their generosity.

    Texas can leave for another super conference, but they will have to weight the political costs of doing so.

    Make no mistake about it, these "educational" football programs have become a huge money grab and this has the potential to become dirty and nasty. This is mixing money, politics, and private business...

    whatever happens is going to be really good for some schools and really bad for others.

    I just hope we benefit from Texas backstabbing....

    I would not like to be many of the Big 12 schools right now.
     
    SpacemanSpiff likes this.
  2. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    I also have a hard time believing a historical conference would eliminate one of its members. Or in other words, there is no way current member schools would ever vote unanimously to remove one of its own.

    However, I am not convinced that the remaining Big XII members are screwed. Let's say CU, UT & A&M leave. The conference must pick up the pieces by adding some MWC teams. Yes, the conference will be weaker and will likely make less money. But, the chances for athletic success would have dramatically improved for all schools, particularly those on the doorstep already such as Mizzou and Ok State. If they can get in the mix and land BCS berths and win basketball CCG's every so often, they will significantly raise their school's profile... which will drive ticket/merchandise sales... which they will use to pay better coaches, build new facilities, etc.
     
  3. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I keep thinking about what would happen to the Big 12 members that gets left behind if CU, MU, and UT leave. I believe OU and NU could carry the conference for the time being but that's no guarantee for the long term. If NU or OU goes through a stretch like OU did in the 1990's, then it is a moot point.
     
  4. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    If the Big 12 loses UT, it's not the end of the world. In many ways, I think the Big 12 would be better off without them.

    Just a hunch, but I think the Big 12 will survive, albeit in a different form than it currently has. If CU is the only team to leave the conference, I believe they will try to get BYU. If that doesn't work, I think CSU would be their next choice. This would create a windfall for CSU and would be good for college football in Colorado. If UT leaves, I think they replace them with Houston. Not an even trade by any measure, but it helps keep a lot of those TV sets, which is the ultimate goal here. To my way of thinking, Missouri would be the toughest school to lose. They take parts of two significant TV markets that cannot be saved by adding another school to the mix. The Big 12 might look at adding Memphis if Missouri left.
     
  5. Buffsfan09

    Buffsfan09 Member

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    I'm one of the few that would really be disappointed if CU left for the PAC-10. The Big 12 is a great football and basketball conference and I think we are better off having a shot at the limelight in the Big 12. Here are some great stats on college football attendance. Look at how many PAC-10 teams vs. Big 12 teams are in the top 20 in average attendance...4-1 ratio. This is not the end all be all of stats, I know that, but it lends credibility to the argument that there isn't as much interest locally or nationally in PAC-10 football. Why do we want to step out of the spot light of the Big 12? Cause we can't field a product that will make money? Cause we have a lot of alumni in California? That's not the fault of the conference, it's the fault of our system of rules and the administration. And I would argue Michigan and Ohio State probably have just as many if not more alumni in Cali then we do and they can make it work.

    http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/football_records/Attendance/2009.pdf
     
  6. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    Good call on Memphis, which would be comparable to Houston, TCU, BYU, etc.

    I would also think that if the SEC is eying an increase to 14 or 16, Memphis is on their radar too.
     
  7. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I'd bet on Clemson and FSU if the SEC expands.
     
  8. TheEvilBeak

    TheEvilBeak Member

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    Sack, this is what I've been saying. If UT leaves, someone in Texas WILL fill that void and wield LESS influence than UT. I think it would be better for the B12. Didn't hear anyone proclaiming UT to be the "be all/end all" of ANY Conference when the SWC went tits up. UT would be in for a rude awakening if it went to another Conference that was too far from its base of operations.

    And..>WSU may not mean much to any of us but the rivalry with the Huskies is a big deal. They are the KSU of the P10. Lower standards and they can field decent teams every 5 yr or so.
     
  9. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe New Member

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    I think Baylor got lucky the last time. I think they will be left to go to the MWC this time around. And agree with those that are saying the pac-10 won't be dropping anyone. It would be school suicide to try and get rid of your in-state rival. Imagine if the UW ever tries to get funding for something at the UW, you think WSU alums will ever vote for it?
     
  10. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    I posted several weeks ago that a lot of backroom politics will go on if some of the conferences realign/expand and that CU would end up being screwed. I have zero confidence in the people in charge at CU (Bohn, DiStefano, etc.) to lead CU through this situation. It would be different if Marolt or even Tharp was around ( I know people hate Tharp but he was good at behind the scenes maneuvering).

    I actually think that the Big 12 is much better brand than the PAC 10 and I am curious why the Big 12 is not making more noise about their conference. I think the best scenario for CU is for the Big 12 to stay intact and set up a better revenue scenario.

    As far as Texas backstabbing it seems like CU and Missouri are making all the noise about leaving. If I was the Big 12 commissioner I would be on the phone with Mike Bohn and the MU Ad telling them to tread carefully.
     
  11. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    As soon as someone says they don't have division 2 anymore the rest of the post is BS.... :lol:
     
  12. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    i think CU is in a precarious, but potentially good, position. i don't think the p10 is looking only at tv markets, altho i believe that the tv money is the primary driver for the expansion talk. they are going to want schools that fit, academically and culturally. just like at CU, the academic communities at the p10 schools don't always see eye to eye with the athletic directors. CU is a good fit, academically and culturally, and it adds a large tv market to the p10 footprint. these are compelling factors in our favor.

    there is a reason that ut and CU were the last 2 teams the p10 offered. the only b12 school that would be a bigger "win" for the p10 would be ut. so, then you have to weigh whether ut is so good for them, money-wise, that they would be willing to take texas a&m too (and exclude CU). obviously, ut brings more money, support, and tv revenue than CU and they are a decent fit culturally and a good fit academically. atm, on the other hand, is not a good fit, culturally or academically. it has some fine undergrad programs but it doesn't not have the research and grad school stuff that the p10 academic types will want. and, we've all laughed about the culture clash between aggie and the p10.

    so, again, it comes down to "at what price will the p10 want ut?" will they take atm, just to get ut? i don't know. but, that seems a stretch to me. if the p10 were to go to 14 teams, then maybe they take a chance on atm, ut, and both CU and utah. maybe.

    ut leaving atm behind to join with just CU is going to cause them political issues at home. i am not sure that the pols in the state of texas will want that. and it clearly would not be good for tech or baylor either. ut is going to do pretty well regardless of conference affiliation. atm, tech, and baylor will not do as well if ut leaves them. it will be interesting to see that part of it shake out. if mizzery and/or CU leaves the b12, i could see a push from texans to just add another texas school like tcu. sure, it doesn't help their tv footprint, but maybe ut doesn't care, given their already "largest in the universe" athletic budget.

    i think CU will be at the top of the list for p10 expansion talk. we don't have the stick we had in 94 (when we had a top 10 football program), but if you consider all the factors at play, CU sure seems like a better fit for multiple reasons than some other potential schools. i think utah is more of a stretch for the p10, but i get that it adds a market.

    we'll see how it all shakes out. i don't think our leadership team is going to screw this up. i know others have expressed that fear, but this thing is going to get momentum and then it will be a matter of us riding the wave (and hopefully not getting crushed by it).

    the good news, i think, is that, despite our recent lack of on-the-field success, we are better positioned than a lot of b12 schools. you wouldn't want to be kjuco state, isu, baylor, or tech right now. even some of the stronger programs in the conference are going to be more challenged than CU in finding a home because of academics or, more importantly, tv market.

    we'll land well, i predict.
     
  13. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    How do A&M fans feel about always riding UT's coattails?? Aren't they sick of holding big brother's hand all the time? I understand that big brother is also lining their pockets with dough. But consider if UT splits from A&M. Isn't A&M well-positioned to compete for athletic supremacy in the new Big XII South? Further, they'd take over the crown as top academic school in the conference as well. Get past Oklahoma in both sports and you may vault yourself up to an elite level.

    I would think that A&M fans envision replacing UT as the heavy in the remaining Big XII.
     
  14. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Atleast my first line wasn't BS by your standards!


    Little did I know, the NCAA did not rename D2 when it renamed the Football Subdivisions.....
     
  15. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    My question is, even if UT brings aTm tagging along to the Pac-10, will that solve all their polotical issues with this move? We all know what happened with Baylor when the Big XII was formed. Tech and Baylor may not carry anywhere near the clout of UT or Aggy, but would the powers that be in Texass see enough benefit to UT going to the Pac-10 that they wouldn't raise a fuss about Tech and Baylor getting left behind in a much weakened Big XII? My hunch is that UT would probably have to be able to show that the Pac-10 (or Big 10, for that matter) are going to be MUCH better than they could do by staying in the Big XII with the other Texass schools (including, if CU/MU end up leaving, possibly TCU or Houston...)
     
  16. DesertDawg526

    DesertDawg526 Resident Dawg Club Member

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    Perhaps not, but that alone doesn't mean that WSU won't be dropped potentially. There have been rumors flying around on Washington sports message boards for months about WSU getting kicked out (finances, inadequate facilities, etc.), and these were well before the talks of conference expansion came up.

    The problem with WSU is mostly financial. Their football stadium barely holds 30,000 people (or basically the smallest average attendance of any Division I school), and they are actually taking more state money than UW for their sports. Adding insult to injury is when WSU fans within the state have fought and fought against the remodeling of Husky Stadium, even flying banners behind planes over the state capitol in protest. As a UW fan, I can see maintaining a rivalry football game, even with a team outside of the division (think CU vs CSU).

    I'm not sure if WSU has the academics or athletic prowess of CSU, and at least CSU has a world class veterinary school. WSU? Nothing.

    WSU won't be booted for lack of TV markets, but they have desperately been struggling to remain a viable member of the Pac for awhile now... If it came down to CU and Utah to the Pac, WSU will stay. If an odd number of teams was available for a superconference (14-16 teams), it would not surprise me to see WSU dropped to make it happen.

    Either way, the next few months are going to be interesting...
     
  17. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    When the Big 10 added Penn St, I seem to remember a lot of chatter surrounding whether Northwestern should be dropped because of their dreadful athletic program at the time.

    It didn't happen obviously and I don't see it happening to Wazzu either. Has a school ever been dropped by its conference?
     
  18. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    Temple?
     
  19. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    You can't compare Northwestern to Washington State. They're two totally different animals. Northwestern is a top-tier academic institution located in a suburb of the second largest city in the US and has boatloads of influential and wealthy alumni.
    Washington State? Not so much. On any of those items.
     
  20. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Yes Temple... my law school... and it has benefitted them greatly... they went bowling this year.
     
  21. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Temple has advantages that Wazzou doesn't have, also. If the Pac dropped Wazzou, they'd be lucky to wind up in the WAC.
     
  22. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    Pretty sure Los Angeles is the 2nd biggest city in the US, but regardless it's not a perfect comparison, just the last time I remember any discussion about dropping a conference member. Northwestern clearly had the academics, but I'm not sure how much control they have over the Chicago tv market. Illinois, Michigan, and Notre Dame are bigger dogs there. One thing Northwetern does have in its favor is the journalism school and the influence its alumni (see practically every ESPN anchor).
     
  23. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that the several hundred thousand dollars they got from the MAC versus the $4-6 million they would have received from the Big East can be called a "benefit".
     
  24. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    if they were still in the big least they wouldn't likely be a bowl team. that's a non-monetary benefit of a step down in class for them.
     

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