1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

It appears that Woody Paige is a avid reader of AllBuffs

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Hugegroove, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    121
    As I was reading his article on the Buffs possibility of jumping to the Pac10, my 1st impression was that he wrote (or plagiarized) almost everything (for and against) from the comments posted here on AllBuffs. And then I realized that he follows the same rule of thumb as Tim Griffin would. What a Douche! His argument for the Buffs to stay in the B12 rings hollow IMO. :wow:


    http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_14458666
     
  2. LongHaulBuff

    LongHaulBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    236
    That sucked. What a waste of time. If that's the best reasoning someone can come up with to stay pack your bags.
     
  3. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    34
    I am old and a little senile but I agree 100% with The Wood man.
     
  4. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    712
    The only reason he gave was that NU and CU need each other - even if you accepted that, it's not enough to make this decision. The rest was gibberish and lame mascot slams. What's to agree with? How does he know the conference alignment a priori? I still think a "4-corners" division makes sense with USC and UCLA, then a northwest coast division with the remaining PAC-10 teams. Again, that means splitting California, but why would that be a bad thing? They will still play at least every other year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  5. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    57
    Been an avid Woody reader for over 20 years and I rarely do disagree with him and this is one of those cases. After letting this expansion talk die down and taking the time to think about if this is still the best move for the Buffs, I'm still solidily behind the Buffs move to the Pac-10. CU has room to grow its revenues and by remaining in the Big 12, CU will never realize its potential in that area. It makes business sense.
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,737
    Likes Received:
    16,440
    Denver is aligned with the west coast in every professional sports league... not Texas. In the NFL, we've also got a rivalry with Kansas City. I'd like to keep some sort of midwestern tie. Hopefully they go to a Pac 14 and take Kansas and New Mexico (in addition to CU and UU). Put the new schools with the Arizona pair plus either USC or UCLA.

    btw, we keep talking about football but can you imagine how good of a basketball conference we'd have with UCLA and Kansas at the top?

    Edit: p.s. Woody is an idiot.
     
  7. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,522
    Likes Received:
    4,518
    Once again Woody puts his keen intellect to the task and reaches the wrong conclusion.
     
  8. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    24,990
    Likes Received:
    2,712
    Woody is a turd, and his writing smells of him.
     
  9. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    271
    pretty much. his argument is mostly assertions and questionable conclusions that *somehow* derive from those premises. i guess i can respect Woody's place in the Denver sports landscape over the years but only rarely do i think he's got much interesting to say.
     
  10. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    121
    I just can't see any B12 school east of Colorado becoming part of the PAC10 conference. But maybe stranger things could happen.
     
  11. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    34
    I will once again I agree with Woody - just because CU football is on the skids is no reason to seek out a lesser conference so we call feel better about ourselves. There was once a time when we were on a par with the UT's, Oklahomas and Nebraskas - not running from them. Year in and year out the PAC 10 is not on a par with the Big 12 period. Why seek lesser foes. THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT
     
  12. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,176
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Moving to the Pac 10 has little to nothing to do with "running" from the Big 12. This is so much bigger than the current level of competition in football alone. There are dozens of threads explaining this, but basically it's about money, academics, recruiting, alumni base, road trips, and the impending implosion of the Big 12.

    99% of those advocating this move are not in favor because we're getting beat up in football. Besides, you could make the argument that the Pac 10 was better top to bottom than the Big 12 last year.
     
  13. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,737
    Likes Received:
    16,440
    The argument that CU is looking at the Pac 10 because we're currently down in football & basketball is a strawman. I've never seen anyone make that argument except for people who are against the move... just so they can refute it.

    The reasons for the move are:

    1. Increased AD revenue (better tv contract)
    2. Increased alumni support
    3. Increased academic prestige
    4. Better cultural fit

    -and-

    5. Long-term sustainability

    Maybe #5 is where the strawman argument comes from. For recruiting, membership in the Pac strengthens CU. Most of the Colorado preps we lost, we lost to Pac schools (Stanford, Cal, UCLA and Arizona State). We also struggled a bit recruiting Hawaii, Arizona, California and other western states we target because nearly every one of those kids looks to the Pac first even if they want to get away from home. We'll still get a couple/few good players a year out of Texas if we make the move and we'll also do better recruiting Big 10 country since they're affiliated with the Pac through the Rose Bowl. Also (and probably more important), is that you don't have the facilities arms race in the Pac like you do in the Big 12. I'd previously posted a thread about AD revenues/budgets. In the Big 12, CU has no chance of ever being with 20% of the resources at the biggest programs. In the Pac, it's exactly the opposite. With a re-energized booster network (getting our CA alums more involved), CU is legitimately looking at being in line with the top programs. CU can compete on equal footing with Pac programs and will likely be one of the "haves" instead of a Big 12 "have not" over the long term.
     
  14. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    The other major conferences are about to divide up the middle of the US. Texas wont be the first to leave just like in the SWC days so I say we do them a favor and bolt first.
     
  15. SuperD

    SuperD Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    185
    Woody's job is to sell papers. They've already had 2 columnists write opinions that CU should make the move, writing a third one isn't going to have much of an impact. Woody gets to take the contrary opinion and rile up all all the CU fans that came out in favor of it in order driving traffic to the paper, links from blogs and message board's etc. The fact that the article has only a passing acquaintance with facts is probably attributable to the move actually making a fair amount of sense. Whether you agree with him or not, the argument of not giving up decades of tradition in a tough old-school conference and that the move isn't a magic bullet IS the primary argument of the folks opposed to the move. The reality is the move is going to come down to $$$, if the PAC 10 can make a reasonable argument for how we'll make more money or at least break even then it will probably happen, if they say they want us but its going result in a loss of $20 million with no chance of a reasonable payback then we'll probably ride out the Big 12 till the TV deal is up and we can look at re-upping or leaving with no penalty.
     
  16. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,737
    Likes Received:
    16,440
    Top to bottom, I'd argue that the Pac 10 is better than the Big 12 every year. The conference doormat, Washington State, had 4 top 10 finishes in football in the past 15 years along with 2 conference titles. In basketball, they were in the Sweet 16 just 2 years ago.
     
  17. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    25,890
    Likes Received:
    1,508
    Woodrow is a moron, read the article. CU = Stanford academically but is years ahead of USC and OSU/Ou um what?
     
  18. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Teams have followed the money as conferences go since the started putting air in the football. Tradition? NU and OU one of the greatest rivalries of all time was thrown away for $$$. How about 81 years of tradition in the SWC? Gone. We have played Utah as many times as OU and the rivalry was thrown away long ago.

    Please CU be Arkansas and not Houston.
     
  19. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    22,871
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    dear woody:

    put down the tan in the can. your skin is a brighter shade of orange than a 3rd rate "actress" waiting tables at a breakfast house in LA.
     
  20. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    34
    OK I am losing this argument but I'll take one last stab at it before I curl up:

    Better cultural fit=content with second rate athletics. But sadly you are correct on this point, which is exactly what we have lamented on this site the past 6 months!!!!!!!
    Increased AD revenue - don't know the numbers - not sure why its better for CU lose on other TV markets than the one we have. Simply put if you win you will get TV revenue (see Boise State)
    Increased alumni support - don't know how this can be calculated but OK??
    Increased academic prestige. Don't see it. Sports have nothing to do with academic prestige. If they did MIT would win the BCS.
    Long term sustainability. I don't tihink any conference is here forever.

    last point: who wants to be in the same conference as Slick Rick???

    That is all.
     
  21. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380

    Northwestern made $22 million in TV revenue last year and Boise State made $1.6 mill in 07-08. Its all about the tv networks and contract not winning. The Pac 10 and ACC are next up for TV contracts so buckle your seat belt.
     
  22. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    34
    Did you include the Fiesta Bowl revenue in that sum???

    Wow I had no idea mediocre programs made that much TV money.
     
  23. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Messages:
    9,137
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    At least you make a cogent argument. Woody's is that, Boulder isn't culturally or philosophically lined up with the west coast because (better cover your computer screen, because there is going to be Dr Pepper all over it!), no place is like Boulder!" Ha! That's hillarious Woodman!

    Seriously, Paige needs to go back to the Sports Shouter show (if you haven't seen the 30 Rock spoof of Around the Horn, it's hillarious!).
     
  24. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380

    Just did some checking and it looks like Boise took home an additional $3mil from the BCS payout. Keep in mind schools spend a lot of money on those bowl games so it isnt always a wind fall. So Boise States record tv earnings of $4.6mil still pales in comparison to CU's $8-9mil.
     
  25. SuperD

    SuperD Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    185
    Northwestern (and all the Big 10 schools) make that much money because they changed the game on generating tv revenue. Their model isn't based on network tv rights which is ultimately tied to advertising dollars. Advertisement revenue is down significantly for all the networks, which is why you're seeing cable channels like FX, USA, and AMC start to have a lot of success in more traditional programming compared to where they used to be against the old networks. The Big 10 is a cable channel which is a subscription based model. They get x amount of money per subscriber on the cable networks that carry the channel. They have been able to successfully get the Big 10 channel added onto the more basic cable tiers in most of their market footprint. That means they're getting X dollars per subscriber, regardless of whether people are watching, and in addition to the ad revenue generated by the network. Now if people don't watch or care eventually then eventually the cable channels won't have an incentive to carry the channel so that is an oversimplification of the issue, but that hasn't been a problem for the Big 10 and they've been wildly more successful than their original projections. That is the reason people argue that the CU market is more valuable than say Nebraska because 4 million cable subscribers times X is greater than 1 million times X, even though Nebraska has obviously been putting a better product on the field and has a rabid fan base. One could make the argument that a PAC 10 network is less likely to be as successful because the western market doesn't have the same passion for collegiate athletics, but I don't know if that would be accurate or not. That's why the Pac 10 has hired a bunch of tv market experts to run the conference. The Big 12 being stuck with Beebe does not inspire much confidence that we are going to be market leader in that area.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  26. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,522
    Likes Received:
    4,518
    They could drop the Big 10 network from DirecTV and I wouldn't care, but I sure as hell would want a Pac 12 network if CU were in that conference. This could be a way for the Pac to not only generate a little more revenue for itself, but to take a bite out of what the Big 10 is getting. Pure speculation on my part.
     
  27. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    @SuperD

    Exactly. That is why there will be a TV land grabs of sorts coming down the pike, but it is also important to have good matchups on the cable channel every week to make the channel valuable to cable providers.

    I think time zones are important as well and why I dont see the Pac 10 picking up a team in the central time zone unless it is a monster like Texas.
     
  28. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    34
    Doesn't the Mtn West have a similar deal - I know here in Boise when BSU played Utah last time we oculdn't get the game except at sports bars. Maybe the conference channel works in some markets - I am not sure its helped the Mtn West - would be curiious what the CSU fans think about it.
     
  29. SuperD

    SuperD Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    185
    I'm not sure if the time zone issue is a huge deal. The right spread of central time zone teams and you can put together an early and late slate of games. That keeps people watching your channel rather than watching ESPN or the Big 10 channel for earlier games. Its also why given their history of working together a joint Big 10 / PAC 10 channel might make sense. Adding the cable subscriber base of the PAC 10 region feeds itself for the additional schools being added to divide up the pie. It also creates a legitimate competitor for collegiate athletics coverage to CBS/ESPN. I'm curious which provider owns the 49% stake of the Big 10 channel that the Big 10 doesn't own. If its Comcast than that makes them a perfect partner because you could easily see them getting the "games of the week" rolled over to NBC, since I'm not sure Notre Dame alone is going to cut it over there much longer. I've got a buddy who works for Comcast and from his perspective the whole NBC deal is about acquiring content.
     
  30. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    With the likes of Indiana and Northwestern crushing ND in tv revenue the doomers have to be reconsidering their independence stance.

    If time zones aren't important how about adding CU and ND to the Pac 10? I think that would be a homerun for the Pac 1o.
     

Share This Page