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It's like déjà vu all over again, one more time, but this time with feeling

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by buffaholic, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    As opposed to the "sure thing" signings of top ranked players we've gotten in the past that I won't bother to name, but none, and I mean NONE of them have reached anything close to the potential that was heaped upon them during the signing period.

    Came to the coach's attention when they reached out in December to certain local coaches currently or formerly at Mullen.

    Attended a TCU camp last summer and won several honors:
    Likely premium content - link
     
  2. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '13 CO DE Timothy Coleman (Verbal to Colorado)

    Would you rather have our class or ucla's class?
     
  3. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Is that a choice we have? Are we in LA? When was the last time we competed in terms of recruiting rankings with the two LA schools?

    UCLA 45 Colorado 6
    UCLA 42 Colorado 14
     
  4. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '13 CO DE Timothy Coleman (Verbal to Colorado)

    Then why would you bring up rankings and say our players haven't lived up to them and basically say they don't matter? What about ASU? UA? UW?
     
  5. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    I really don't remember any sure thing recruiting classes for CU. We have landed a couple of 4 star and 5 star players over the past 7 years but we haven't really bundled together a sure thing class since Hawkins did it one time with the J.Major/D.Scott class. He never followed it up with another strong class to push them either.

    Again, I have been on record saying you have to land a class with multiple 4 star and high 3 star recruits because only half of them are going to work out and become big time players. When you start filling your class out with Ath/2 star reaches you need to hit on at least 75 percent of these guys to even remain competitive. This class literally has 1 difference maker on it as it is currently perceived by All Buffs posters. Sefo at QB. After that we have a bunch of guys who we hope can develop to compete with most of the Pac 12 when they are JR's/Sr's.

    I hope for CU's sake that the coach is a better talent evaluator than all the services are and that he is a top developer of the talent given him on the scale of Saban, Meyer, Tresell etc..
     
  6. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    We aren't exactly on the top of the list for the majority of blue chippers out there. You can mention UCLA but they aren't 4-21 in the last two years with over a decade since their last bowl appearance.

    To get better our staff is going to have to do a couple of things. One of those is to outwork other schools for those blue chippers who might have an interest. At the same time they have got to find and develop guys who the other schools miss. We have tried it with the character/academic issues and it hasn't worked.

    This kid looks like a different approach. A guy who got overlooked because of being very young and missing substantial time due to an injury that also may have scared some people off. They are betting on him coming back from the injury, continuing to develop physically, and in his skills. If one of those three fails he doesn't work out but if we hit he could be the kind of player we need to get better, not just tread water.

    You can't build a class on guys like this but in the position we are in you have to take a few and hit on them. If he grows another couple inches and puts on normal weight gain while maintaining his speed he could be a significant difference maker.
     
  7. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Where did I do that? I stated simply that our higher ranked players had not worked out too well in the past. That's an indisputable fact. I've also maintained on here plenty of times that rankings do matter in the aggregate, but that good programs get good players. The services own evaluations matter little. If Alabama takes some kid, he's going to get a bump. So it's self fulfilling. For no-name programs winning a lot of games (see boise state) not so much.

    So who are we more like? Alabama or San Jose State?
     
  8. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Here's a list of Rival's 5.6 rated or higher guys we have all celebrated in that have had adequate time to prove themselves:

    Matt BallengerQB5.6
    Blake BehrensOL5.7
    P.T. GatesRB6
    Drew HudginsDE5.7
    Ryan MillerOL6.1
    Anthony PerkinsATH5.6
    Markques SimasWR5.8
    Sione TauOL5.7
    Anthony WrightDB5.7
    Chance BlackmonWR5.6
    Curtis CunninghamDT5.7
    Ryan DannewitzOL5.7
    Ryan DeehanTE5.8
    Bryce GivensOL5.9
    Steven HicksDB5.6
    Lynn KatoaLB6
    Jon MajorLB5.9
    Shaun MohlerLB5.9
    Will PericakLB5.6
    Ray PolkRB5.8
    Doug RippyLB5.6
    Darrell ScottRB6.1
    Max Tuioti-MarinerOL5.9

    Nate BonsuDT5.6
    Jarrod DardenWR5.6
    Clark EvansQB5.6
    Jack HarrisOL5.8
    Nick KasaDE6
    Edward NuckolsDT5.8
    Andre SimmonsWR5.8
    Terdema UsseryWR5.6
    Derrick WebbLB5.6



    Jered BellDB5.7
    Kaiwi CrabbOL5.6
    Donnie DuncanATH5.6
    Nick HirschmanQB5.6
    Tony JonesRB5.7
    Harold MobleyATH5.7
    Paul RichardsonWR5.8
    Eric RichterOL5.7
    Chidera Uzo-DiribeDE5.7
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  9. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    and the ones we wouldn't have celebrated:

    Conrad Obi, Kai Maiava, Mike Iltis, Josh Hartigan
    Tyler Hansen, Rodney Stewart
    David Bakhtiari, Gus Handler, Will Jefferson, Parker Orms, Forrest West

    Alex Lewis, Daniel Munyer, Kirk Poston

     
  10. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '13 CO DE Timothy Coleman (Verbal to Colorado)

    So recruiting 5.5 3*'s and lower with no other BCS offers is the way to get on the right track? Got it
     
  11. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    And there's not much to get excited about. Lots of misses in both camps by the way. Some decent guys in both as well.
     
  12. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Yes, you are right. That's what I stated. The lower the better.
     
  13. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    This really proves my point. You look at that list and you can say that Colorado has been worse than the norm at developing half of there 3 star and 4 star players. That is why you have to recruit more of them. The odds are half of them won't develop.
     
  14. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    This isn't because of the talent level. Fact is that a lot of these guys were available to us for other reasons. A few of them were dissapointments due to injuries suffered at CU. A lot more of them were dissapointments for the same reasons that more prominent programs held back and made them available to recruit.

    MTM would have been at USC if not for the knee injuries that eventually caused him to be a non-contributor for us. Knuckols other options backed of when it became clear that he wasn't going to make it academically. End result, we sign him but he never qualifies. Others on the list were character issues or just didn't have the drive or interest to continue playing football.

    Since the program was gutted during the so called scandal we have been a bottom feeder. An attempt to improve things happened when we hired to "hot coach" who turned out to be a failure. Since then we have gone cheap keeping Hawkins to long then replacing him with the dollar store staff led by JE.

    Now we appear to have at least hired a competent candidate in MM but he will have to overcome some ugly history to turn the program around. Remember that the last time CU football was worth mentioning these recruits were in early elementary school and had never put on pads.

    Most of the higher rated players who don't have other issues aren't going to be interested in us. We can talk about UCLA sucking but they aren't coming of two years of 4-21 and one bowl loss in over a decade.

    To get decent our coaches are going to have to work harder on the quality players who might consider us and find/develop guys who the others overlook. This means we have to take some chances. We took the chances with the academic and attitude issues and it didn't work. There is risk in taking guys like Coleman who may have been missed because of his youth and his knee injury but if he grows another inch or two, puts on normal weight gain, and keeps his quickness he could also be a difference maker in the future.

    Our other option is keep getting turned down buy guys who have better options and fill the class with guys who will never be better than MWC or Sun Belt talent like we have the last few years and continue to get bashed on the field.
     
    aik likes this.
  15. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure what buffaholics point is.
     
  16. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    It may be a point that I've been trying to make.

    CU has not been in a position to win recruiting battles for guys that were in heavy demand. Because of that, many of our highly ranked guys had fatal flaws. Many were major academic risks or character risks. We also took a lot of guys who were over-ranked based on high school productivity but lacked the size, speed and/or general athleticism to develop into much more during their time at CU. Where we've been more successful is with guys who have the athletic gifts but were very raw coming out of high school. That's where we need to live. Recruit the athleticism and body types needed to compete at this level who weren't far enough along to blow up as HS juniors. These are the guys like Nate Solder, Will Pericak, David Bakhtiari, Alex Lewis, Chidera Uzo-Diribe, Jimmy Smith, Tyler Hansen, Vincent Hobbs, Paul Vigo, DaVaughn Thornton, Lowell Williams and Stephane Nembot. They may develop. They may not. But if you go this way to intelligently build a depth chart, get some system continuity, and use redshirts much more than we have, then you can build a strong team with that kind of recruiting.
     
  17. gobuffs58

    gobuffs58 Well-Known Member

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    all i know is mac's 2 star and 3 star and no stars at san jose st would have finished far above the buffs in the pac 12
     
  18. JWP303

    JWP303 Active Member

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    I have read the OP multiple times and still have no idea what he is trying to say.
     
  19. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    There is a lot of truth to what Nik says. It is also worth mentioning we are not recruiting at that level right now.

    As Darth has said several times, MacIntyre took a big risk in deciding to honor all verbal commitments from the previous staff in this class. He has to own it now.
     
  20. The Ogre

    The Ogre Club Member Club Member

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    303: Maybe that's because it's out of context - he and 'tini and o robbie were arguing in the recruit's thread - it was split off.
     
  21. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I'm just going to nit and say that PT Gates didn't really have a lot of time here, or any time for that matter.
     
  22. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    not yet....
     
  23. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    Colorado football disproving the rule since '05.
     
  24. gobuffs58

    gobuffs58 Well-Known Member

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    agree with bufnik..we must redshirt most ol and dl recruits... look at wisco.. you see an oline recruit at 250 pounds and when they take the field 2 years later thay are all 300 plus!
     
  25. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    It's bad, but it's not THAT bad :thumbsup:
     
  26. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    I have been arguing that coach isn't doing well enough on the recruiting trail with what he has left for scholarships. I feel he is taking to many Athlete reaches as opposed to swinging for the fences for some of the top names who might still be available. Now I have been on record stating that I do like taking guys to develop and build towards depth. I think he is doing a good job doing that. I just think that his recruiting trend right now is to bring in guys who should be playing at CSU/San Jose/etc.. instead of the Pac 12. My biggest issue is most of the guys we are hearing about are all NR/2* type guys.

    While criticizing his apparent reaches I will reserve overall recruiting judgement until next year. I think part of the problem is I can't wrap my mind around the fact that Colorado is that undesirable to recruits. I hope things change because I do not think that the class we have this year can make us competitive. Of course if Sefo is a homerun QB like we all hope than that changes everything.
     
  27. gobuffs58

    gobuffs58 Well-Known Member

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    if coach mac can get us to san jose st level in 2 years i will take that as we will be finishing in the middle of the pac 12...then he can take the recruiting from there
     
  28. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    It's been almost a decade, and the bowl we went to was about as far down the list of bowls as we could have gotten to, and we lost pretty well when we were there.

    Not many HS kids are going to get excited about "Hey they went to the Toilet Bowl in a little southern city that no one cares about 8 years ago."

    Unfortunately, we have been that bad. Most HS kids impression of CU is Fresno laying 70 on us, a bunch of teams putting 50s and 60s on us, losing to Sac State, getting blasted by 50 every year to Mizzou, etc. The Good Barnett teams are history book stuff like when Army and Navy were champions.
     
  29. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Agreed. CU is a laughing stock of a program right now. I think we hired the right coach to get us back to the fundamentals that we were hoping EB would do. Make us tough mentally and physically. Make us compete every play. Put us in a position to win games. I think coach will do this. I agree that the recruiting will get better if we can make bowl games. I am just worried that 2 of our last 3 classes have put us in a position where we might not have enough to get there in the next 3 years.
     
  30. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    The OP was snatched out of a dialog misplaced in the Coleman commit thread.
    There were posts above this bitching about stealing CSU guys.
    I noted that CSU has had similar number of NFL guys despite rankings being far below.

    My only point is that none of our 5.7RR recruits achieved as expected at CU.
    We aren't recruiting vs UCLA we are recruiting against bottom BCS programs because that is what we are.
     

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