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Ivan Maisel article on the PSU scandal & Paterno

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I thought this was a very interesting take.

    It must be said that age did not take down Paterno on the football field. He has coached his 46th Penn State team to an 8-1 record. Since he turned 78, which was when the university asked him to resign and he refused, Paterno has gone 66-20 (.767 winning percentage) and coached in two BCS bowls. He has won 409 games, more than any coach in the history of major college football.

    Say what you will about the number of games he coached from the press box in recent years, a concession to his physical frailty. But in this bottom-line business, Paterno delivered until the day he stopped coaching.
    In truth, age failed him off the field. Paterno failed to grasp the import of what graduate assistant Mike McQueary said to him in March 2002. Paterno, like many in his generation, failed to grasp that society no longer handled such indecencies behind closed doors. Society once referred to the crimes of which Sandusky is accused as unspeakable. Nothing goes unspoken any longer.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football...-paterno-legacy-sullied-wake-sandusky-scandal

    *****************

    Not that this excuses Paterno, but I think it gives a more likely explanation to his actions/inactions. He has always been a man of high standards and convictions. He was never someone to back down from a fight. But consider that he was born in 1926. He was a man in his 40s by the time we saw societal changes like birth control pills and civil rights. He came of age during the Ozzie & Harriet / Father Knows Best era. Some things weren't discussed in public. These things, if they needed to be handled, were handled privately.

    I tend to agree that football never passed him bye, but that Paterno didn't adapt and grow with some fundamental good changes to American society. And this is what bit him in the ass. "Cover up" is too strong for what happened. Paterno wasn't part of a conspiracy. This was a case of handling something by the old school rules that were wrong back then and are so far in our past that we tend to forget that was the accepted way of doing things.
     
    Lt.Col.FrankSlade likes this.
  2. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    So he followed the Catholic method of handling child abuse.
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Pretty much exactly.

    Change his responsibilities and access in the belief that it will solve the problem.
     
  4. bigskybuff

    bigskybuff Club Member Club Member

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    This is only true to a point. As a football coach in today's world, you are continually bombarded by the media and how to deal with it. You have to be pretty insulated to think this is the life works now. He was surrounded or surrounded himself with yes men, too afraid to confront what was going on. He will burn in hell for what he allowed to keep happening to dozens of the most vulnerable in our society. Frankly, any other assertation on this is why the Catholic church is still around today. They should put him in a shower and shove a baseball bat up his ***** and see if he still feels the same way. Slade, I wish you were next in line. You are a disgusting human being and I'm betting the kids you claim as yours do not do the same about you. I honestly couldn't believe your comments in another thread and hope you get what's coming to you...legally of course. Due justice right? Are you related to the enablers on Rivals names zit and tenn? Child rape is as disgusting as it gets and somehow you people can justify it. You would have made a good nazi.
     
  5. DesertDawg526

    DesertDawg526 Resident Dawg Club Member

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    While I can somewhat appreciate this angle, I still think this PSU scandal is among or possibly the very worst we've ever seen in college athletics... there was no excuse for a cover up or failure to properly report this years ago.

    Joe Pa, if he has any interest in a good legacy and/or integrity, should resign immediately. This is very, very bad no matter how you look at it. His delaying retirement puts a huge black mark on every one of his and PSU's past accomplishments, and it's a shame for the community, players and university, not to mention the real victims in all of this...
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    bigsky,

    I've been arguing as vehemently against anyone against people who have defended Paterno.

    But absolutely no one has defended child molestation. There has been nothing but condemnation for that. I think it's very unfair to equate someone saying that Paterno fulfilling his legal & organizational responsibilities was enough (and that too much focus is on Paterno in this thing) with being a defender of child abuse.

    I'm angry too. I'd like to see worse things done to Sandusky than the law allows. I'm less angry with Curley and Schultz, but want to see them pay for this in a bad way. And I'm even less angry at Paterno, McQueary, Mrs. Sandusky and other, but I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

    I look at Sandusky and, assuming allegations are true, the man is evil. There's no trying to understand it. There's no need to. The rest were motivated by other things and, despite making horrible and destructive decisions, I believe that they thought they were doing the right thing at the time and felt justified in their actions. I want to understand that. I'll never forgive it, but I want to understand it.
     
  7. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    Uh....overreact much? That is fine you disagree with Slade on one part of the story, but to say those things about him? Seems hypocritical when talking about morality.

    -- I'm a Guy On A Buffalo --
     
  8. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    As a person who is very involved in the church I have to correct you to what could be the old method of the church.

    The point of this thread is highlighted by this, Paterno took the same approach as the church did a couple of decades ago when this all started to come out, the idea that we will handle it all in house, we will fix it and it will go away.

    The modern church has come to and passed the realization that it is not acceptable to try to sweep this stuff under the rug and that these people cannot or will not be fixed by any type of "handling" that can be done in the structure of the church. The church now has one of the most forward thinking, aggressive, and tightly crafted and enforced policies to prevent and if needed deal with child abuse of any organization in the world. Most of the contention now in the media comes from allegations from decades ago, often involving priest who are no longer alive or are not competent to even defend themselves against the charges, and based on little or no evidence.

    Paterno unfortunately for the children who were the continuing victims of Sandusky didn't get the message. From all appearances it looks like JoePa and the university administration conciously and willingly ignored the evidence of these ongoing disgusting acts and enabled Sandusky to continue to offend for reasons known only to themselves.

    My personal opinion, not based on anthing I can point to in the story is that Paterno knew that to turn Sandusky over to the police which should have happened long ago would result in him being connected to PSU and stain the lily-white image they had worked so hard to build and maintain. As it continued they realized that with each passing incident the impact of the stain would be greater. They hoped somehow he would either magically stop or pass away and that the problem would simply fade away.

    Instead it has come out now and not only do they have to deal with the issue of someone closely connected to PSU abusing children but that he did it repeatedly and they failed to stop it and in fact enabled it.

    My dad always taught me that telling a lie would come back to get you and the consequences of the lie would almost always be worse than the consequences faced by simply telling the truth. Had PSU reported Sandusky when they first knew what was happening it would have created a ripple but in the end they would have been the school that got rid of the individual who didn't meet their standards. Instead they are now the school that protected the child rapist and enabled him to continue, a legacy that will be much harder to overcome.

    The church didn't have prior experiences to base their decisions on but are still facing the loss of credibility on this issue due to how they misshandled it in the past. Despite a couple of decades of work to try to correct the situation the church still faces this issue in the court of public opinion. PSU could have and should have learned from the experience of the church. Instead they repeated the same errors for even worse motives and will now have to face the price of their moral failures.
     
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  9. bigskybuff

    bigskybuff Club Member Club Member

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    You are probably right nik. I've enjoyed your posts on here and rivals and respect what you have to say and how diplomatic you are when doing this. I felt his responses were terrible and still do. I understand a message board is designed to let people put their different viewpoints forward. I felt his were beyond the pale and why this is allowed to happen again and again.

    As for you ruggedless, yes, I do tend to get worked up about certain subjects. I was in the Big Brother program and the first boy I was with had been sexually abused by his step dad and older brother. His mom blamed him for it, not herself or the perps. I see the exact same parallels with her response and the okies. You can justify anything if you try hard enough. Read the individual testimony and honestly try to justify what is being said by some on this board. I think when all the facts come out, Paterno will be considered a human stain on society. I feel the same about anyone who tries to argue that he didn't know what he actually did.

    I don't post often and this is why. I am sorry if I have offended anyone, besides the okie, and will refrain from personal namecalling in the future should they not warrant it.
     
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  10. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

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    I'm growing more wary that he knew exactly what McQueary was talking about and did 'what needed to be done' - hire McQueary (the only one of the 18 GAs hired) and gave him a big-time job in a big-time program.

    "What would it take to keep all of this in-house, Red?"

    Hired because JoePa believed him. Not because he didn't give him much credence or didn't understand. But understood all too well.
     
  11. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    No evidence to back this up by I am starting to think that by the time McQueary reported this to Paterno the cover-up had already been well under way for prior incidents and situations. To report anything at that point would have meant the posibility of the ongoing cover up being exposed and the whole ship sinking.

    If it turns out that in some form this line of speculation is true then we have just started in the course this scandal will end up taking in the media. Heads will roll, JoePa and other coaches will face jail time along with those in the administration who were part of the cover-up. It could even extend into wealthy and connected boosters who may have knowingly funded some of the cover-up cost.

    As bad as this is already it has the potential to get a lot worse and bring a lot more people down with it.
     
  12. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

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    Mtn, correct - no evidence. Except the job. Except the closed 1998-investigation-then-retirement-announcement the next week.

    That's circumstance. No blood trail. Just paper. Just jobs and retirements and closed paperwork. But you're technically correct. And we both know that our antenna are now more suspicious than ever.

    Bringing them down? No. These behaviors are so low, so awful that "down" isn't possible for them. Shining the light on them for what they are - that's all it is.
     
  13. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm really getting concerned that this is a major cover-up and that there was a lot going on that we didn't know about. The rumor of powerful donors partaking of Sandusky's escort service is the first thing I've heard that might explain this thing. There would have to be enormous pressure exerted on people for them to stay quiet on something like this.

    And I don't know if anyone heard Barry Switzer today, but it resonated with me. He said that he's been doing this a long time and that everyone knows everyone's business on a coaching staff. He said that there's no way that no one knew of the report or that McQueary worked there for 9 years after it without saying something to another coach. That Sandusky being a pedophile had to be an open secret within the program and the university community.
     
  14. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

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    It's 6:30 at State Penn, Thursday evening. Chatting with a PSU prof who came home to a sobbing, red-faced and angry wife because she'd run into one of the suspect's wives (I didn't ask whose). That suspect's wife had gone to the WalMart (on N. Atherton, State College's central business street - it really only has one) and started to walk toward the store when people who knew her started shouting out questions. "How much did you know about all of this? How long ago? How could you let him do any of this?"

    Anyway, my chum's wife watched this ordeal and wasn't angry at the shouters. She too has all these same questions. Long-time residents of a town that apparently is the Devil's Central now. Thanks to at least one but likely several.

    THE POINT... those people are not going to do well in State College. It's a small town. They might drive 10-15-20 miles to go shopping but most of the nearest towns are small, too. Altoona's 100k? 80k? 150k? That may be what they have to do. Maybe they'll have to pay everything in cash, because a flash of a credit card or ID will mean recognition.

    Exposure of these charges shines a light on them. The old days of enjoying "Getting Away With It" may be over for a while - for them. I hope the males enjoyed themselves at the time - everyone else around them is now hating it.
     
  15. Alfred91

    Alfred91 Club Member Club Member

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    Following this **** must be what being addicted to crack feels like.

    It brings me no joy, it makes me sick to my stomach, and it makes me feel like **** - yet I can't stop following it.
     
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  16. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

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    BUFFNIK, yep. Y'know, when Columbine broke, I was gagging at some of the Klebold-Harris 'chums' who claimed to be "oh so close" but had no clue. In my circle of friends, we all knew each other's business. At jobs, it's always been like that, too. Of course, sicko perverts probably WOULD have avoided any revelations - like Tom Hanks laughing about mayonaise jokes in PHILADELPHIA. Anything to cover up. But Janitors knew enough to send each other down and watch Sandusky (and others?!!) with little boys. Was this voyerism alone? Or blackmail? Gee - what do you think those Rich O' Millionaire Janitors are likelier to ask for?!! Yeah - right... rich ol' millionaire college janitors. Uh huh...

    JoePa can use his "I'm old school and I never believed all the Pervert talk, and I purposely never sought at that kind of truth - from anyone, much less my Heir Apparent, my top assistant, the one who was so important to my program's success for years and decades." Yeah. I wouldn't ask my pals which of them are sicko sodomizing boy-rapin' perverts, either. But I wouldn't refuse to believe repeated rumors. And I sure as HECK would degrade that on-going relationship until I drove that person far far away from me.

    JoePa didn't do that. The investigation is closed, the retirement is announced and then it kicks in months later after an employment anniversary date.

    "I didn't know nuthin'!"

    Ya remember a scene out of SOME LIKE IT HOT, when George Raft's big ol' lug gangsters keep hypnotically claiming, "We wuz at Rigoletto's!"
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  17. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    My feelings about this in a nutshell.
     
  18. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

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    Y'know what I'm really curious about?

    That McQueary didn't report this because he was shocked into a numb do-nothing reaction...

    But because it was COMMON.

    And THEN he reported it only because he thought maybe JoePa's good friend Sandusky was gonna turn HIM into JoePa on some made-up tale that it was McQ doing the screwing. "I better get MY story in first-!"

    Because if there was going to be a "My Word Against His" story, the first one to tell Daddy has a big advantage.
     
  19. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    So shouldn't Switzer be punished as well?
     
  20. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    I think what really stands out to me about BigSky's post, is that whatever it is on Paterno that he wants a baseball bat shoved up has FIVE letters. Somebody help me out here.
     
  21. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

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    I guess I've softened on Joe Paterno a little bit sense this first broke, but this still feels like moral relativism.
     
  22. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I think JoePa and McQueary are equally culpable as Curley and Schultz - they are all "educators" and had knowledge of a crime against a child. And obviously JoePa was the real authority at Penn St. For me, telling your boss doesn't meet the standard of due diligence.
     
  23. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    Colon, duh.
     
  24. Alfred91

    Alfred91 Club Member Club Member

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    I've seen/heard/read the question raised multiple times, without it ever actually being answered - is there a mandatory reporting law for people who work with kids in PA?

    It seems to me that if there is a law like that, Paterno and McQueary violated it, and should be prosecuted for it. Their chosen career put them under the umbrella of educators - I believe Paterno even prided himself on that.
     
  25. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Great, thanks! I kept thinking "nipple" and just assumed that BigSky was a poor speller.
     
  26. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    I'm thinking is has something to do with his cat...
     
  27. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    This is one of the laws that Curley and Shultz were indicted on. The question is what requirements are exactly specified under the law in PA. I am an educator in Colorado. Under Colorado law I am required not only to report but to insure that the report reaches the appropriate authorities, either child protective services or the police department with jurisdiction. I can, and by district policy, do report it through my school counselor and principal but by state law am required to follow the report until I am certain that it is in the hands of the required authorities.

    What I don't know is if PA has this same requirement or if reporting it to the "supervisor" is sufficient. Maybe one of our attorneys familiar with PA law can clarify.
     

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