1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Jon Embree vs Turner Gill

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,687
    Likes Received:
    16,386
    Turner Gill inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

    Jon Embree inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

    Turner Gill went 3-9 his first season.

    Jon Embree went 3-10 his first season.

    Turner Gill went 2-10 his second season.

    Jon Embree is 1-10 his second season.

    Turner Gill's transitional recruiting class (2010) was ranked #55 on Rivals.

    Jon Embree's transitional recruiting class (2011) was ranked #74 on Rivals.

    Turner Gill's second full class (2011) was ranked #34 on Rivals.

    Jon Embree's second full class (2012) was ranked #36 on Rivals.

    Turner Gill's offense in his first season ranked #113 total / #111 scoring. His second year, that improved to #106 / #95.

    Jon Embree's offense in his first season ranked #92 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

    Turner Gill's defense in his first season ranked #98 total / #103 scoring. His second year, that fell to #120 / #120.

    Jon Embree's defense in his first season ranked #102 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

    (Statistical rankings based on the 120 NCAA FBS teams that count toward the rankings and does not include the 4 teams that just moved up to FBS.)

    ***************************

    In the final analysis, Gill's performance at KU (a program with very little tradition) was slightly better than Embree's performance at CU (a program in the Top 25 nationally in all-time wins).

    Considering KU's lower expectations for its football program, one would expect KU to be more patient than CU. But Gill's level of failure was so overwhelming that they simply had to move on after 2 years.

    Also, let's look at the respective resumes before Gill and Embree landed these jobs.

    Gill
    1989: Nebraska (GA)
    1990: North Texas (GA)
    1991: SMU (WR)
    1992-02: Nebraska (QB)
    2003: Nebraska (Assistant HC / QB)
    2004: Nebraska WR
    2005: Green Bay Packers (Dir. Player Development)
    2006-2009: Buffalo (HC)

    Embree
    1991: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)
    1992: Douglas County HS (TE/WR)
    1993-94: Colorado (TE)
    1995-98: Colorado (DE)
    1999-00: Colorado (TE)
    2001-02: Colorado (WR/Kicking)
    2003: UCLA (Assistant HC/ WR)
    2004-05: UCLA (Assistant HC / TE/ Kicking)
    2006-08: Kansas City Chiefs (TE)
    2009: unemployed
    2010: Washington Redskins (TE)

    Resumes are very similar. Both had been Assistant Head Coaches. Embree had more NFL experience. Both were very successful position coaches. Gill had some success as a Head Coach building a Buffalo program to its first every bowl game and being considered for almost every job opening in the nation. Embree had never been a Head Coach.

    Of the two, Gill's resume called for extra patience. It was in his 3rd year when he broke through at Buffalo. But things were so bad that he didn't get the chance. Rightfully so. That level of performance (win/loss, statistical analysis, recruiting) simply cannot be allowed to continue.

    CU cannot possibly keep Embree a 3rd year.
     
    BuffUp likes this.
  2. Dunken

    Dunken Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    5
    Very interesting points, but I still think the changes wont be made until they are made in the AD.
     
  3. krom

    krom Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    64
    Not only did we hire a guy that had no HC or coordinator experience, we hired a guy that wasn't even in the game in 09. If he was such a good position coach whats the deal with that?
     
  4. BuffSurveyor

    BuffSurveyor Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    68
    The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

    Embree:
    3-10
    1-10
    ??-??

    McCartney:
    2-8-1
    4-7
    1-10
    7-5
    6-6
    7-4
    8-4
    11-1
    11-1-1
    8-3-1
    9-2-1
    8-3-1
    11-1
     
  5. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,687
    Likes Received:
    16,386
    Worst troll post ever, Fusker.
     
  6. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    21,705
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    look at the schedules and the scores over those first few years, dummy.
     
  7. Gridiron

    Gridiron Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    6
    No Mac comparisons, a completely different game in terms of coverage and recruiting these days. A few bad seasons back then is printed in a local newspaper. Today it's blasted everywhere for every recruit to see. This ship isn't turning around with Embree at the helm. New OC/DC needed and no quality coordinators will walk into this mess if Embree is still HC.

    Fire Embree, clean house and bring some respectability back to Boulder with a good hire. I'm ok being patient if I actually see improvement. I see a team that has gone backwards since Week 1.

    Great post Nik vs. Turner Gill. If we keep Embree he'll be gone mid-season next year after CSU, Central Arkansas and Fresno St losses.
     
  8. BuffSurveyor

    BuffSurveyor Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    68
    I disagree! Embree and McCartney are possibly on the same track.

    Not saying Embree is a McCartney, but the guy is getting another year to show improvement. Like it or not, we are going to see how it plays out.

    Like your write up comparing Embree to Gill. Lots of good points there. Great job!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  9. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    22,245
    Likes Received:
    644
    McCartney was also a DC under one of the best HC's in the history of college football
     
  10. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,703
    Likes Received:
    4,696
    Just admit when you are trolling. It is not hard.
     
  11. whatthebuff

    whatthebuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    236
    So if we are following the KU model, are we going to get some fatso for our next coach?
     
  12. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    13
    If you'd followed Gill's tenure at KU closely, there were two strong anti-Gill forces at work. One, he brought in a socio-religious-political agenda that players frequently rebelled against. Gill has standards that even Mormons might wince at, much less the typical KU player, recruit or prospect. This injured his recruiting ability, and assistants would claim their hands were tied and they weren't allowed to pursue some athletes because of Gill's pre-set standards.

    Two, Gill was an anti-KU alum. Not just the graduate from another program, but from hated Nebraska. And Gill's performance at Nebraska as a player was never kind to Kansas.

    These were old wounds that Gill might not have survived even if he'd come in with winning seasons - and if he'd had that success, he'd had bailed as soon as the next better offer showed up because some claimed, Gill believed "anywhere would be better than KU."

    So there were social forces that Gill stoked, created, enflamed or merely endured, all of which are fairly different than Embree's Favorite Son status at CU.
     
  13. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,295
    Likes Received:
    5,974
  14. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    13
    Yeah, Ron Prince was getting his legs kicked out from under him by every Bill Snyder visit at every event Prince attended. "Whatch doing now, Coach Bill? Gee - do you miss coaching?" Which was always said with a "We miss you coaching HERE" sentiment.
     
  15. buffalocu81

    buffalocu81 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    2
    Our illustrious QB Jordan Webb played for both. That is all you need to say about it.
     
  16. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207
    Ron Prince was at KSU for 3 years.
     
  17. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    11,885
    Likes Received:
    832
    Give it up dude
     
  18. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,295
    Likes Received:
    5,974
    D'oh. I better run the stadium stairs for that one.
     
  19. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    989
    WOW ! nice job ! pretty freak'n sad when you really start looking at it... we suk so bad
     
  20. NYbuffDIEHARD

    NYbuffDIEHARD Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    25
    The saddest part of this thread.....

    THIS RESUME!!!!!!!!!!! This is in no damn way the resume of a head football coach, anywhere! And especially not one heading into a new Conference after 5 bad years! Seeing it listed this way really shows us all why this guy is in so far over his head! This is sad.

    Embree
    1991: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)
    1992: Douglas County HS (TE/WR)
    1993-94: Colorado (TE)
    1995-98: Colorado (DE)
    1999-00: Colorado (TE)
    2001-02: Colorado (WR/Kicking)
    2003: UCLA (Assistant HC/ WR)
    2004-05: UCLA (Assistant HC / TE/ Kicking)
    2006-08: Kansas City Chiefs (TE)
    2009: unemployed
    2010: Washington Redskins (TE)
     
  21. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207
    The "unemployed" in 2009 makes me laugh.
     
  22. BuffUp

    BuffUp W.T.T.F. Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    989
    prince, gill and DIIIbree...no wonder he sux
     
  23. NYbuffDIEHARD

    NYbuffDIEHARD Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    25
    Me too and I just added this to my own resume....

    NYbuffDIEHARD
    2012: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)

    I figure I know about as much as our staff after witnessing the same mistakes week in and week out. So I am now qualified to be a volunteer coach.
     
  24. sliderNcider

    sliderNcider MacLovin Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    1,813
    Well Kansas is 1-10 this year and defeated in conference
     
  25. BoulderBorn

    BoulderBorn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    4
    Why shouldn't Embo be compared to Fairbanks and not Mac?
     
  26. Buffenuf

    Buffenuf massive tool

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    299
    KU has very decent FB tradition, probably just a notch or two below CU's; but it is overwhelmed by the KU BB tradition! (hard NOT to have an almost sacred BB tradition when the guy who invented the game, coached there!)

    KU also has wealthy, proud alums who are not mealy-mouthed cheapskates when it comes to opening their wallets for their FB program, in strong contrast with certain local types---you know who you are!
     
  27. cubuffthis

    cubuffthis New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    2
    After looking and seeing that Embree was in charge of kicking at Colorado and UCLA, he should be canned after kicking anywhere near the best returner in NCAA history. Wittingham made that fact known. He had to be shaking his head the whole time. "Thanks CU for the bonehead play."
     
  28. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,703
    Likes Received:
    4,696
    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
     
  29. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    You are literally too stupid to insult
     
  30. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    17,472
    Likes Received:
    367
    Wow. Have you ever been to Lawrence?
     

Share This Page