1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Leading by example?

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by Buffnik, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    It always drives me crazy when I hear the talking heads say that a player "leads by example". It's such a bogus comment.

    Lately, I've heard a couple announcers step up and tell it like it is.

    "If you say someone leads by example, you're saying he's not a leader. He just plays hard."

    Finally some truth.

    Not everyone's a leader. Too often we try to pretend that players are leaders just because they're upperclassmen or really good or quality people that fans & teammates respect. That's not leadership.

    Does our men's team have a leader this year? Who do you think has the personality to be that type of guy?
     
  2. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,556
    Likes Received:
    836
    I agree for the most part. Either you are a leader or you aren't, but there are people that are great examples who work hard and do things the right way that can certainly impact younger players.
     
  3. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,395
    Likes Received:
    5,224
    If someone is quiet, and maybe less than personable but busts his ass on the floor influencing others to do the same, is he not a leader?

    Leaders exert influence that generates change that would not have otherwise occurred.

    Now if a guy busts his ass, but the standard he establishes isn't emulated, then I agree he's not a leader.
     
  4. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,556
    Likes Received:
    836
    I busted ass at work the other day, but I don't think it really established me as a leader. Just kind of smelled...
     
  5. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    9,861
    Likes Received:
    268
    i don't agree with this original premise as a 100% thing
     
  6. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    "Leader" is not the same as "Influencer".

    A star player with a bad attitude can influence the team in a bad way as a quiet guy who keeps to himself by causing other players to decide "if he doesn't have to do this stuff, then we don't either". The same kind of star, if he had leadership qualities, would be causing other players to rebel against the coach and be getting them into trouble around town.

    Likewise, a quiet guy like Dre can raise the energy level of the team with his intense play. He exerts a ton of influence that way. But Dre is not the type to demand excellence from his teammates. If that comes with this team, it has to come from Mayor and Ski.
     
  7. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,395
    Likes Received:
    5,224
    Hmmmm.

    For me, this is interesting timing for this conversation. I've been invited to sit on a working group to form a new Leadership Curriculum for a local University, here in Washington. We met for the first time yesterday.

    The standard definition I bring (that was immediately pounced on by some pretty big brains) is:

    "The process of influencing an organized group toward accomplishing its goals." That definition comes out one of the several texts we're considering for the course (and a text that I first reviewed nearly a year ago).

    By that definition, "influencer" is a component of leadership. Now throw in an organized group (basketball team) and goals (to win) you've got yourself a leader by example.

    Of course, you may disagree with that definition, but I've sorted through many of them, and this is the one with which I'm most comfortable.
     
  8. TimmyDUBs

    TimmyDUBs Dirty haole Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,564
    Likes Received:
    947
    From early on I have seen a certain presence in XJ that I think will blossom into leadership next year. He stay calm, looks fearless and I think he is getting a feel for his place on the team and in college BBall before fully exerting his leadership.
     
  9. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    25,878
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    You can be a leader without being vocal i disagree with this premise. A guy who's first-in last out and and through his own sheer effort and work-ethic elevates that of the players around him is certainly a leader by example. Conversely a guys who's very vocal but frustrating will have a hard time being a leader. Exhibit A.) Josh Scott, his leadership has had a big effect on Gordon's workethic.
     
  10. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,279
    Likes Received:
    5,915
    Case for Askia Booker: He is often called out for being a gym rat and taking thousands of shots before and after practice. When Ski is on fire, his energy is contagious. Example: Charleston Classic. Issues: Sometimes his A game disappears and his shot selection is questionable. When ski's performance is off, is there enough of a personality to bring out the best in others?

    Case for Spenser Dinwoodie: He is called "The Mayor" because he can hardly walk across campus without seeing someone he knows. His people skills and charisma is as obvious as the mustache on his face. Issue: Is popularity the same thing as rallying teammates to maintain a sixteen point lead or keep the baby buffs from looking lost in Laramie and Lawrence?

    Case for Andre Roberson: Mr. Double-Double leads the conference in rebounds, is making his mark in CU's record book and is considered to possess future NBA talent. There is more than enough here to qualify for the "leads by example" standard, as Dre's presence leads CU to victory in the Keg and at neutral locations. Issue: His personality is no Charles Barkley or Shaq, but whose is? And like Spenser and Askia, Dre also doesn't rise to the occasion as playmaker against top 10 and on the road.

    Sure Sabatino, XJ and Jelly have each had their moments of glory and star power. I wouldn't place any of this group above those mentioned above from a leadership perspective at this point in their careers, but recognize their contribution to CU's hopes for the NCAA tournament.

    My takeaway is that Tad Boyle has assembled a solid ensemble cast that wins and loses as a cohesive team. There is no single attention whore or selfish man-diva. That's not a bad thing. But there also is no Carlon Brown or Nate Tomlinson or Corry Higgins to capture your undivided attention as the passionate heart of the Buffalo. In the 2012-2013 season, the leadership magnetism flows from the coach.
     
  11. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    Thinking about great teams, leadership does not come from the quiet example-setters. The Cowboys dynasty was Michael Irvin. It wasn't Daryl Johnston with his work ethic, character and productivity.

    I look at the Patriots and they haven't won a title in almost a decade despite having more talent than their championship teams. Tom Brady does everything right with film and practice habits. He's also an amazing player the team will rally for. But they don't have the leaders they did with the title teams.

    Last year, CU had Carlon Brown whose personality and competitive drive elevated a team beyond what it should be able to accomplish. Throw in Nate and Austin who were not willing to let their season end without going to the NCAA tourney. We don't have that right now. Leadership in sports goes way beyond setting a good example by going to class, being on time for practices & meetings, listening to coaches, and trying hard. There's a force of will that refuses failure or anything below 100% effort from himself and everyone around him. It doesn't have to come from the best player and he doesn't even have to be well-liked by his teammates (see Nate Tomlinson).
     
  12. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    25,878
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    Bad example, the patriots arent winning anymore because they've stopped emphasizing defense the way they used to.
     
  13. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    They were #5 in total defense this year, man. That's ridiculous when you've got the #1 passing offense.
     
  14. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,395
    Likes Received:
    5,224
    Can I safely assume you didn't read the post you quoted since you didn't respond to any of it?
     
  15. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    Sure I did. I was giving you a more complete description of the definition I use.

    I reject your definition because if I use that then everyone in every group is a leader.
     
  16. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,395
    Likes Received:
    5,224
    The only leaders in a group are those that exert positive influence toward the goal, in my definition. But yes, there can be more than one.

    You seem to be limiting your definition to a single, vocal, emotional leader. That may be your preference, and you may argue that the most successful teams feature exactly that kind of leader. However, that's a different arguement than your OP, which suggested that somebody who quietly works hard and influences others to do the same isn't a leader. By my definition, he is, and I'm comfortable with that.
     
  17. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26,416
    Likes Received:
    2,328
    I agree with the premise that leadership is tied to the ability to influence others behavior in a postive way towards accomplishing a goal.

    By this measure the term "quiet leader" is overused because there are a lot of guys out there who bust their butts, do things the right way, and contrubute to their teams, but who's actions don't influence significant change in their teammates.

    At the same time there are guys who don't say a lot but who's actions do influence others to work better and contribute more to the group. These people set a standard that others feel some motivation to attempt to meet.

    Certainly the ideal is have person who leads both by actions and by who will communicate expectations (and assistance in meeting them) to others. An example of this was Elway as a player. He was a guy who not only was "first in, last out" and busted his butt in the weight room, the film room, and the practice field, he also wasn't shy about calling out those who didn't meet the expectations he set. Unfortunately there aren't many people out there who have this level of respect from others and the willingness use it while communicating.

    It may be that the ideal situation is to have a vocal leader to put ideas into the ears and minds of others and one or more of the quiet leaders to support those ideas and motivate others to meet the expectations.
     
  18. TDbuff

    TDbuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,992
    Likes Received:
    565
    I agree that "leads by example" gets thrown out too easily, but I think there are situations and people that do actually lead by example. And I don't think that implies that they're also mute. I think it's all about the respect you earn from your teammates and that they'll listen to you if you have something to say, or notice when you're busting your ass trying to win.

    I've just been in situations where the vocal guy isn't necessarily the leader, they're just annoying. I think being able to effectively communicate and push buttons with people certainly helps, but the respect a guy has is the overriding factor.
     
  19. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    Messages:
    31,654
    Likes Received:
    4,347
    Why do all leaders have to be positive and why is an organization required?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
     
  20. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,547
    Likes Received:
    16,178
    Maybe not an organization, but at least a group. For there to be a "leader", there have to be people following. And, yes, there can definitely be people who are excellent leaders that take the group in a bad direction.
     

Share This Page