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Les Miles Watch 2015

I would try to gamble on a proven top-flight Coordinator. Preferably with texas connections. I'm thinking Lincoln Riley, Kendal Briles, or Venables. I hate Baylor, but damn they are fun to watch they know how to recruit.
 
Orr said:
He underperforms with his talent at UGA.

You don't want him to underperform with our talent...
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He would take recruiting to a whole new level from where we are today and I would be ok with 8-9 wins until we got tired of him and wanted to see it kicked to another level. Mark is in a group of coaches I would consider if he would come. Again, I trust RG to make the decision and to have a plan if a change is made. We cannot go thru another process of taking our second or third option if he makes a change. We cannot end up with a who coach as someone else said above.
 
Buffalo Brad said:
He would take recruiting to a whole new level from where we are today and I would be ok with 8-9 wins until we got tired of him and wanted to see it kicked to another level. Mark is in a group of coaches I would consider if he would come. Again, I trust RG to make the decision and to have a plan if a change is made. We cannot go thru another process of taking our second or third option if he makes a change. We cannot end up with a who coach as someone else said above.
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I get the name recognition, but is his recruiting footprint compatible with students who would consider CU with any consistency?
 
To me, what JMFL did at USF is way more impressive than what either Miles or Richt have done. They've successfully kept their program at or near the level by which they inherited.
 
Orr said:
I get the name recognition, but is his recruiting footprint compatible with students who would consider CU with any consistency?
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May not be compatible with where we should be recruiting but lately we seem to be in GA and FL quite a bit. Also have 5 from Louisiana coming in soon. We seem to be hitting the SEC area pretty hard. Not sure it is sustainable though so you may be right. We need to get back to success in SoCal and TX at some point
 
BorrachoBuff said:
I would try to gamble on a proven top-flight Coordinator. Preferably with texas connections. I'm thinking Lincoln Riley, Kendal Briles, or Venables. I hate Baylor, but damn they are fun to watch they know how to recruit.
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How the names Dave Warner and Harlon Barnett haven't appeared in this thread after what Sparty did in Columbus the other day is beyond me....
 
Orr said:
He underperforms with his talent at UGA.

You don't want him to underperform with our talent...
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You might want to go back and check how his Rivals classes have ranked since he has been there against conferences foes.

I would take him in a heartbeat.
 
Highlander said:
You might want to go back and check how his Rivals classes have ranked since he has been there against conferences foes.

I would take him in a heartbeat.
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Highlander. I just looked them up. Georgia recruits Top 10 classes every year. Every year.

Are you trying to make my point for me?

Here's a coach whose program sits king in a talent rich state which happens to include Atlanta. He's consistently pulling in some of the top recruiting classes in the nation. But he seldom has a top team in the nation. By mid-season, it's all over, and we're wondering what happened to the Bulldogs, who were so super-hyped as a national contender in the off-season.

My point was, he underperforms with his talent. The research errand you sent me on has confirmed that. His team rankings do not mirror his recruiting rankings. They are far worse.

Now. Do you imagine for a second that he might recruit similarly to Colorado as he does UGA? The state of Georgia is crazy with football talent--much of whom appear happy to stay right at home. Colorado does not have that advantage. So, lets assume that he would be unable to bring in 15 consecutive top ten classes to CU.

If Richt can't perform when all five classes on the field were in top 10 recruiting classes, imagine how much worse he'll perform when he's not working with top 10 recruiting classes.

No thank you on Richt.

Did I mention he lost to Dan Hawkins?
 
buffaholic said:
To me, what JMFL did at USF is way more impressive than what either Miles or Richt have done. They've successfully kept their program at or near the level by which they inherited.
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Actually, no, at least in the case of Richt. He took that program to the next level (divisional titles and conference championships).
 
Vic Lombardi discussed it this morning. He said "boosters" are talking about Miles maybe coming to Colorado. They must check out Allbuffs. He threw water on the idea.
 
dply said:
Please stop perpetuating this myth. Especially after FAU and the ****ing Citadel weekend.
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I know we like to pretend the Pac is murderers row, and maybe last year it had an argument, but this year not so much. Same with many years before. Since Miles has been at LSU (and that was the time period I was referring to) the SEC has been the toughest conference in the country. Deal with it.
 
Duff Man said:
Actually, no, at least in the case of Richt. He took that program to the next level (divisional titles and conference championships).
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So when you say, "Actually, no" - are you arguing my point that JMFL did more than Mark Richt? Your one sentence there appears to disregard my whole point, when perhaps you have a slightly higher regard for Richt's work than I, but still in fact agree with my thesis?

I'm not going on a research errand on this, but the Wiki page for UGA football states that Richt replaced Donnan when Donnan failed to meet expectations, with prognosticators predicting UGA would compete for the national championship in 2000, Donnan's last year.
In Donnan's last three years, UGA went 16-8 in conference and always to a bowl game. Change the name from Donnan to Richt, and the year from 2000 to 2015 and the same Wiki comments apply, including the exact SEC record. Let's not pretend that UGA was in the crapper when Richt arrived and he built something. He moderately improved their stature for awhile.

Not arguing he wouldn't be a guy to go after, just that JMFL seems to me like a guy who's done more, and is probably hungrier at this point to prove himself again. Richt and Miles appear no longer willing to do the hard work necessary to keep their programs at the top. Will they do the hard work necessary to fix a flailing program? JMFL has proven that to me by working tirelessly as an assistant coach, at a crap program. That man is motivated, and has something to prove. He's going to prove it somewhere.
 
SINKRATZ said:
I know we like to pretend the Pac is murderers row, and maybe last year it had an argument, but this year not so much. Same with many years before. Since Miles has been at LSU (and that was the time period I was referring to) the SEC has been the toughest conference in the country. Deal with it.
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Sorry but the myth is just that. I don't buy into it. You can't have the best conference in the world lose to the citadel. Or have the second best team in the conference go to overtime against another crap team that they shouldn't even be playing. Sorry I won't deal with the myth and I'm sick of people spreading it. It how it perpetuates itself. I never mentioned the Pac in my response.
 
dply said:
Sorry but the myth is just that. I don't buy into it. You can't have the best conference in the world lose to the citadel. Or have the second best team in the conference go to overtime against another crap team that they shouldn't even be playing. Sorry I won't deal with the myth and I'm sick of people spreading it. It how it perpetuates itself. I never mentioned the Pac in my response.
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Um...
 
dply said:
Sorry but the myth is just that. I don't buy into it. You can't have the best conference in the world lose to the citadel. Or have the second best team in the conference go to overtime against another crap team that they shouldn't even be playing. Sorry I won't deal with the myth and I'm sick of people spreading it. It how it perpetuates itself. I never mentioned the Pac in my response.
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You're talking about this year, and 1 week in particular. I'm talking about the past decade since Miles has been at LSU. It's not close over that time frame. Miles took over in 2005, the SEC won the national title every year from 2006 - 2012. I hate the SEC too, but they're good.
 
SINKRATZ said:
I hate the SEC too, but they're good.
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I agree 100%. I'm still not sold on the toughest conference but that is a very subjective and a hard to measure matrix. I also think it's impossible to argue that they are not the toughest for the same reasons.
 
SINKRATZ said:
You're talking about this year, and 1 week in particular. I'm talking about the past decade since Miles has been at LSU. It's not close over that time frame. Miles took over in 2005, the SEC won the national title every year from 2006 - 2012. I hate the SEC too, but they're good.
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A large part of that is due to a faulty BCS system. How have they been doing since the playoff system was implemented?

For example, in years past, the title game last year would have automatically been FSU v. Bama and the tide would have crushed FSU. This would have perpetuated the falsity that the SEC is the best and unbeatable.
 
SINKRATZ said:
You're talking about this year, and 1 week in particular. I'm talking about the past decade since Miles has been at LSU. It's not close over that time frame. Miles took over in 2005, the SEC won the national title every year from 2006 - 2012. I hate the SEC too, but they're good.
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Let's forget this year, then, if you insist. We can point to last year, instead, when the vaunted SEC's ranked teams went 2-and-5 in bowl games--primarily against lower ranked opponents.

In the last five years the SEC is something like 10 times more likely to lose to a lower ranked team from another conference than they are to beat a higher ranked team.

You know who buys into SEC supremacy? ESPN, Carolina Buff and you. Oh, and Cameron Artis-Payne, the Auburn running back who told Melvin Gordon that he wished he was able to run up his numbers in the Big 10, like Gordon did. What happened when he and Gordon went head to head? Gordon rushed for 251 yards against a weak SEC defense and Artis-Payne mustered 126 yards.

This argument isn't about the Pac. It's about the SEC.

I will concede that the SEC was easily the best conference in the nation between 2005 and 2010.
 
Orr said:
I will concede that the SEC was easily the best conference in the nation between 2005 and 2010.
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Right. But play it forward to today - that's 10 years, which conference had been better over those 10 years? Other conferences have had better seasons (Big 10 this year, maybe the Pac last year), but who has been better over a decade? 7 national titles by 4 different teams over 10 years - how is this even a debate?

Other conferences are now catching up, and I don't know what the next decade will look like, but in the 10 years since Miles has been at LSU, tell me who has been better?
 
buffaholic said:
So when you say, "Actually, no" - are you arguing my point that JMFL did more than Mark Richt? Your one sentence there appears to disregard my whole point, when perhaps you have a slightly higher regard for Richt's work than I, but still in fact agree with my thesis?

I'm not going on a research errand on this, but the Wiki page for UGA football states that Richt replaced Donnan when Donnan failed to meet expectations, with prognosticators predicting UGA would compete for the national championship in 2000, Donnan's last year.
In Donnan's last three years, UGA went 16-8 in conference and always to a bowl game. Change the name from Donnan to Richt, and the year from 2000 to 2015 and the same Wiki comments apply, including the exact SEC record. Let's not pretend that UGA was in the crapper when Richt arrived and he built something. He moderately improved their stature for awhile.

Not arguing he wouldn't be a guy to go after, just that JMFL seems to me like a guy who's done more, and is probably hungrier at this point to prove himself again. Richt and Miles appear no longer willing to do the hard work necessary to keep their programs at the top. Will they do the hard work necessary to fix a flailing program? JMFL has proven that to me by working tirelessly as an assistant coach, at a crap program. That man is motivated, and has something to prove. He's going to prove it somewhere.
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I think they did good coaching jobs in different ways. You seem to equate good coaching with "doing more with less" or "building a program from the ground up." But if you look at Richt's coaching job in context, he won two SEC titles in his first five years, something that had not happened at Georgia since the mid-80s. So they were not in the crapper, but to downgrade his successes as "moderate" is a bit disingenuous.

Good coaches can take programs from the depths, and also to new heights. Does not need to be an either/or dichotomy. By your logic, David Shaw (potentially winning his third Pac-12 title this season) has done very little at Stanford. Chris Petersen did nothing at Boise. After all, he took over a good program.
 
SINKRATZ said:
Right. But play it forward to today - that's 10 years, which conference had been better over those 10 years? Other conferences have had better seasons (Big 10 this year, maybe the Pac last year), but who has been better over a decade? 7 national titles by 4 different teams over 10 years - how is this even a debate?

Other conferences are now catching up, and I don't know what the next decade will look like, but in the 10 years since Miles has been at LSU, tell me who has been better?
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The SEC is a very good conference, but dply was right to call you out for perpetuating the myth. Look critically at those national titles, and examine them in the context of self-fulfilling prophesy. Then examine what happened when the field was broadened to teams that weren't considered to have a chance in the playoff.

I'm done with this chat in this thread, though. I don't imagine that you're changing your opinion here--and it's really not all that important.
 
Orr said:
The SEC is a very good conference, but dply was right to call you out for perpetuating the myth. Look critically at those national titles, and examine them in the context of self-fulfilling prophesy. Then examine what happened when the field was broadened to teams that weren't considered to have a chance in the playoff.

I'm done with this chat in this thread, though. I don't imagine that you're changing your opinion here--and it's really not all that important.
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All I was trying to say is that Miles record of 9-10 win seasons was especially impressive given the strength of the SEC since he's been there. Yes, I believe it has been the toughest conference over that time period, not every individual season and not this season, but over that decade as a whole.

Considering you and dply disagree so strongly, I would think you could easily tell me which conference has been stronger over the last decade, but if you want to leave it as myth or some "self-fulfilling prophecy" then I'll take it you can't.
 
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