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Looking towards next year with Bryce Peters (broken off from recruit thread)

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by Buffnik, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Talton's minutes, too. But, yeah.

    I'm a big believer in putting your best 5 players on the court and dictating matchups & pace so that you do what you do and the opponent is forced to make adjustments. For the Buffs, that means playing 1 big with 2 wings and 2 guards a lot next season.
     
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  2. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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    There is not much of a choice, CU will be forced to play small. Tad has not been able to recruit any big men in the past two years. The inability to recruit a C is a MAJOR issue going into next season: If Gordon or Miller get hurt, who plays down low? Guzonjic is a perimeter big man (shoots three's - think XJ, with less talent). That leaves Fletcher as the next big man - and Gordon will be a Senior (there is no replacement for him at this point either). Scary!
     
  3. BuffG

    BuffG Well-Known Member

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    FIFY

    This is modern basketball. 1 big, maybe a hybrid, & hopefully 4 out of the 5 guys can hit 3's. XJ coming back is crucial but, there's plenty of teams who have had success with less quality bigs than we'll have next yr.
     
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  4. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    This. I'm really not sure everyone's obsession with big men. Yeah, dominant ones are great. Bad ones are horrible. Besides, even the pro game is going away from the traditional bigs. If you don't have an overall game, there's no reason to have you.
     
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  5. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    You sound like you are describing the makeup of the team that won the P12 tourney and a game in the dance. I'm ok with it as long as the talent is there to do it.
     
  6. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    If XJ doesn't return next year King would likely be inline to play the 4 of the current wings, he's logged about 15% of the available minutes at the 4 this season and none at SG, where as Fletcher has logged none at the 4 and about 20% of the available minutes at the 2.
     
  7. onealcd

    onealcd Club Member Club Member

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    Good big men are what separates the good teams from the great teams IMO. Offensively you can survive without one but defensively when playing teams that have established big men you get whooped and give up easy baskets.
     
  8. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I'd rather have a dominant guard/guard play and have front court issues than the reverse.
     
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  9. Hoops Fan

    Hoops Fan Club Member Club Member

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    Villanova had some great runs with a four guard lineup ... our guys have length ... could be a lot of fun to watch
     
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  10. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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    That's fantastic several of you believe a big man is not critical. Not having a replacement for an All-American C and not having any recruits for the back-ups, will impact the team next year and beyond. Playing 4 wings is fine at Northern Colorado. It is not suited for the Pac12, you can go up and down Pac12 rosters and see several big men on each team and on the floor at the same time.

    Pro teams are going away from traditional bigs? Really? Do you mean the GS Warriors and their 7'0" Center? When he goes to the bench, he is replaced by a 6'11" Center. Their forwards are 6"11", 6'10", 6'9", 6'9" and their SF's range from 6'8" to 6'7". Their SG is 6'7". The Spurs also have 4 players 6'11 or taller. Cleveland has 4 bigs themselves. Clippers - same thing... The elite teams all have bigs.

    There is a tremendous Risk relying on Guzonjic or Fletcher at PF against Pac12 caliber teams. Gordon and Miller will need to rest, they may encounter foul trouble, be playing poorly, deal with injuries, get suspended for biting someone.. there are a number of factors which create a need for bigs. There is a solution: If Tad could recruit, he could deliver a solid C and that would ease the loss of Josh and the impending loss of Gordon.
     
  11. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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    I apologize - Off topic for Bryce Peters string
     
  12. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    No worries moved here with our other posts.

    Looking specifically at the Warriors example (which granted is extreme) of the 6 players on their roster that are 6'9" or taller only one plays more than 20 minutes a game, and 3 of the 6 play practically zero minutes per night. On our roster we will also have a 6'7' shooting guard next year, like they do (not the same talent level obv.)

    Next year we'll likely have some combo of:

    6'2" PG
    6'5 - 6'7 G/Wing
    6'5 - 6'7 G/Wing
    6'5 - 6'7 F/Wing
    6'9 - F
    The traditional model of a Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, center focused NBA team we grew up with is less common today than it has been, teams in the pros like in college are getting by more on length then they are a traditional "Big."

    It will no doubt hurt losing Josh next year he's a steadying force, he's very good at altering shots without fouling, you can keep him on the floor all game because he hits FT's. No one disputes that it will be a loss, but you can get by in college with a 4 guard line-up and a single big - if both Tory and Wes got hurt we'd be in trouble relying on Keenan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  13. CitizenKane

    CitizenKane Club Member Club Member

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    That line up looks an awful like certain UNLV and University of Illinois teams to me. Sure the lack of a dominant big could be harmful, but then, if you're running, running, running, running and even running when you're not running, they won't be in the game much anyway. Plus that would be seriously fun to watch.
     
  14. onealcd

    onealcd Club Member Club Member

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    Tad seems very reluctant to run considering his emphasis on defense.
     
  15. chitownbuff

    chitownbuff Club Member Club Member

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    If that's the goal, then why did we sign that Euro big? I envision a similar situation to what the Cavs are going through with Kevin Love right now.
     
  16. CitizenKane

    CitizenKane Club Member Club Member

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    You do make a good point, but there aren't a lot of other ways to win with that type of line up. I suspect he is a good enough coach that he will alter his style to fit the players and give them a chance. But hey call me an optimist (No one has ever said that before, so seriously do it, I need it man!).
     
  17. CitizenKane

    CitizenKane Club Member Club Member

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    The Euro 'big,' otherwise known as Guzonjic is only 6'8" tall and his best attributes might be his ability to spot up shoot serve as a bruiser on defense. Sounds exactly like the 4/5 you need in that type of system.
     
  18. chitownbuff

    chitownbuff Club Member Club Member

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    Except the Guzzler is not a bruiser, nor is he a runner (another attribute necessary for that style of offense).
     
  19. CitizenKane

    CitizenKane Club Member Club Member

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    Thankfully both Tory and Wesley can run. A spot up shooter off the bench would still be fine in that type of system.
     
  20. BuffNative

    BuffNative Club Member Club Member

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    I'm actually really excited for next year. The team will look very different without Josh Scott, but if Tad is willing to be flexible with his lineups he can put a winning squad on the floor.

    It looks exactly like what many have already posted: one big (Wes and Tory), 3 interchangeable wings (Fortune, King, Fletcher, White, and maybe Peters/Brown) that can switch everything, and a point guard (Collier/Yaz). For this type of lineup to be successful the three wings need to be able to play excellent perimeter defense and help with rebounding.

    While the perimeter defense and guard rebounding this year has been shaky, I think the introduction of White next year could do a lot to change that. He is no doubt a question mark, having come from DII. He won't be as productive as he was at that level. However, the guy I see on film looks like a guard with the length/athleticism to be a nightmare defender, rebounder, and a scary transition threat. I love that he has the over-looked-recruit chip on his shoulder too. I can picture next year's team winning 20 games with that formula.

    The year following next, I am not so sure about...
     
  21. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    Anyone else watching this matchup between two top ten teams of Xavier and Providence who have a combined 1 (yeah one) center listed on their rosters? Big fan.

    And I realize most guys are listed as forward anyway even if they play center, but Providence has one guy 6'10" and everyone else is shorter.
     
  22. BuffinCali

    BuffinCali Well-Known Member

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    Time will tell. A few of the guards have big ceilings (King, Collier, Peters and White), I think those four on the floor at once with Gordon would be potentially dangerous at times. However, against teams like Arizona, Stanford and Utah who throw the ball down low and tend to rebound very well, CU will be exposed for their lack of height.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  23. cu2x

    cu2x Club Member Club Member

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    I like Rodney B and attacks on him and BS speculation about his recruiting value to the team, on a widely read, CU-related internet site, can only hurt the program.

    But, there is something strange, in that we haven't been able to recruit a big man for next year. A really strong prospect would know he'd likely be a Pac 12 starter his freshman year. How weird is it that none of the top 20 high school kids want to jump on that?
     
  24. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Assume those attacks are on Rivals (dont have a sub)?

    Rodney got us Dom, maybe he isnt Coach A but he's done a reasonable job, and a lot of that credit to coach A is retro-active because 3*'s panned out. Rodney also is not the big man coach, that is Mike Rohn, who's been here since the start - the complaining folks you are reading should probably know or learn that.
     
  25. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm just assuming those erroneous takes are from AZ's board. It's the safest assumption with a criticism that's that dumb.
     
  26. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    He said "widely read."
     
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  27. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Good point.
     
  28. BuffG

    BuffG Well-Known Member

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    It's universally understood that the NBA is moving away from fielding lineups with 2 low post bigs. The Warriors have been crushing with the small ball lineup featuring Draymond Green as the 5. Even casual NBA fans know this.

    Gordon has been a top 5 rim protector in the P12 since his 1st yr & Tory Miller continues to grow.

    It's a little too early to concern ourselves with our big man depth for the '17-'18 season. This team is poised to make a run either this yr or next & good bigs will see the opportunity to play here.
     
  29. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    oops
     
  30. BarackObama

    BarackObama Active Member

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    This is one of the things I am looking forward to next year. We do not have anyone who can attack the basket and finish around the rim (or dish) like White can. As a matter of fact I don't think we have had anyone that was a consistent threat to drive the basket since the Mayor. It would add a valuable component to our attack. Hopefully Peters can do this as well.
     

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