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New Woelk article about expectations.
- Thread starter TheRoyale90
- Start date
They are recruiting more than just Athletes with those facilities. I was stationed down there for 4 years (Schriever AFB) and spent alot of time at AFA, that campus is made to bring the best people into the Air Force.
Well after reading that I guess we can't expect to beat Toledo and Montana St. Our support system and facilities can't compete with such programs.
Come on, as many have already mentioned, CU is a top 25 program all time. It might not be a football powerhouse like Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Michigan etc, but we really can't hope for at least 7-5 seasons? I gotta give it to Hawk he sure has diminished everyones expectations. I suppose soon we'll be reading how Kansas' basketball program rakes in so much money for it's athletic department we can't even compete with them.
Come on, as many have already mentioned, CU is a top 25 program all time. It might not be a football powerhouse like Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Michigan etc, but we really can't hope for at least 7-5 seasons? I gotta give it to Hawk he sure has diminished everyones expectations. I suppose soon we'll be reading how Kansas' basketball program rakes in so much money for it's athletic department we can't even compete with them.
What Woelk fails to mention is that with the expansion of the conference from the Big 8 into the Big 12, there was another "Perfect Storm" that should have resulted in another era of Colorado dominance. We had Oklahoma removed from our yearly competition to play for the conference title, leaving Nebraska as the only top program in our half of the conference (and they experienced the largest downturn in program history after the retirement of Osborne).
Colorado was in a situation where it was the 2nd most prestigious program with a weakened #1 in the North and should have capitalized. We actually did under Barnett, but now we're the 4th or 5th best program in the North under Hawkins and we should be better than that. But I guess my expectations are just too high.
Colorado was in a situation where it was the 2nd most prestigious program with a weakened #1 in the North and should have capitalized. We actually did under Barnett, but now we're the 4th or 5th best program in the North under Hawkins and we should be better than that. But I guess my expectations are just too high.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
Nice to see Woelk go back to the old playbook of excuses when we aren't winning.. :lol:
San Diego Buff said it best, he's nothing but a mouthpiece for whoever is in the CU athletic department..
I'm sure Cincinnati with their high school stadium has some great facilities.. Why is Brian Kelly winning? Because he can recruit, develop players and COACH..
Fact: Woelk is a douche bag who bends over for the CU athletics win or lose.
Fact: Hawk has a winning percentage of .350 in 4 years.
Fact: CU program's winning percentage is over .600
Fact: We suck.
Fact: With the 85 scholarship limit, talent is spread around and if you know what you are doing you can develop a winning program.
Woelk is a jackass.. I'm surprised he gets as much love around here that he does..
San Diego Buff said it best, he's nothing but a mouthpiece for whoever is in the CU athletic department..
I'm sure Cincinnati with their high school stadium has some great facilities..
Why is Brian Kelly winning? Because he can recruit, develop players and COACH.. Fact: Woelk is a douche bag who bends over for the CU athletics win or lose.
Fact: Hawk has a winning percentage of .350 in 4 years.
Fact: CU program's winning percentage is over .600
Fact: We suck.
Fact: With the 85 scholarship limit, talent is spread around and if you know what you are doing you can develop a winning program.
Woelk is a jackass.. I'm surprised he gets as much love around here that he does..
BlackNGold
Club Member
Neill Woelk is starting to make me puke. He has became such a PR piece for CU.
How about this Neill - before Hawkins CU had 3 losing seasons in 21 years. Since Hawkins we have 3 in 3. I get tired of all the BS. Toledo is not a good team and we got hammered by them. We have arguably the three easiest games on our schedule behind us and we are 1-2.
I am getting tired of the bad fan crapola...Maybe I will start donating my money elsewhere since according to Neill I am wasting it at CU.
How about this Neill - before Hawkins CU had 3 losing seasons in 21 years. Since Hawkins we have 3 in 3. I get tired of all the BS. Toledo is not a good team and we got hammered by them. We have arguably the three easiest games on our schedule behind us and we are 1-2.
I am getting tired of the bad fan crapola...Maybe I will start donating my money elsewhere since according to Neill I am wasting it at CU.
I think many of you are mis-reading the article. I don't think NW is making excuses for Hawkins record or losing to Montana State or Toledo. Those things are inexcusable.
-BUT-
You have to be realistic about where we rate as a program. There are VERY specific reasons why Stoops or Mack Brown can waltz into town and have their teams competing on a national level in 1 or 2 years. We do not enjoy the same luxuries as those programs.
The agruments about our historical winning percentage are irrelevant. Expectations for the present and immediate future have to be set within the context OF THE PRESENT. Our budget, facilities, and fan support are all average to below-average by Big 12 standards.
We're an average Big 12 program and on top of that we happen to be in a down cycle right now.
-BUT-
You have to be realistic about where we rate as a program. There are VERY specific reasons why Stoops or Mack Brown can waltz into town and have their teams competing on a national level in 1 or 2 years. We do not enjoy the same luxuries as those programs.
The agruments about our historical winning percentage are irrelevant. Expectations for the present and immediate future have to be set within the context OF THE PRESENT. Our budget, facilities, and fan support are all average to below-average by Big 12 standards.
We're an average Big 12 program and on top of that we happen to be in a down cycle right now.
You do realize that we've appeared in 4/9 Big 12 Championship games this decade despite a recruiting scandal that began hurting recruiting and department morale in 2002?
We're not Oklahoma or Texas. But in the North, we're the closest thing. We have larger AD budgets than Missouri, Kansas State and Iowa State... and Kansas is a basketball school that gets over half its revenue from MBB (at CU football earns 7x what MBB does, NU football is about a 10x, and the rest of the North is between a 1x and 3x). To say that we're an average Big 12 football program is ridiculous. We're probably 5th in football (1-Oklahoma, 2-Texas, 3-Nebraska, 4-Texas A&M), but since we're in the North we have a better chance of getting to a BCS bowl than Texas A&M, so in reality we move up to 4th. And the drop off from the Top 5 is very significant.
Idot Buff
Guest
Well said. Between Ringo (who is a completely incompetent tool) and Neil (has he ever been outside of Boulder?), what a joke. The only comparable paper that I know of is the Times Picayune....another winner of a paper...
77buff
Well-Known Member
AFA is the ultimate reward for doing a good job. Only the best Air Force personnel get stationed there. It's the most beautiful campus I have ever seen, and I graduated from CU in 1977. CU is beautiful, but AFA is unsurpassed.
Sorry, but I think you're ignoring reality on several fronts, and actually exhibiting the very stuck-in-the-past cognition trap that Woelk is talking about.
Were "average" in the sense that we're not immune from experiencing peaks and valleys like most programs. The difference between us and a program like a Texas is their $$$$ allows them to "get up" a lot faster when they do stumble.
Regarding budgets, ours is actually about the same as Missouri's, and I think it's pretty irrelevant that KU happens to get "over half" its revenue from basketball, if that's even true. The bottom line is their total revenue far exceeds ours. In FY 07-08 KU's total athletic revenue was $34 million MORE than CU's. That's more than enough money for them to have a football program on par with CU, as CU spends about $15 million a year on just football.
And aside from budget size, you also have to remember that CU's AD was running in the red for most of this decade until a few years ago. College athletics is primarily about money, and you can't outrun your balance sheet forever.
http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=15653.0
Buttermaker
Active Member
This is the best piece of journalism ever published in the BDC. Facts and facilities hurt.
Gordon Gee helped the program. There were exceptions. Just ask Oliver Lucas or a tutor at that point.
There is no hiding from the fact CSU just got a $13 million indoor facility while we struggled to get $1 million for a bubble. CU built Dal Ward and then sat back.
The most telling "fact" is that in the last 30 years, CU has finished in the top 25 only 10 times.
Gordon Gee helped the program. There were exceptions. Just ask Oliver Lucas or a tutor at that point.
There is no hiding from the fact CSU just got a $13 million indoor facility while we struggled to get $1 million for a bubble. CU built Dal Ward and then sat back.
The most telling "fact" is that in the last 30 years, CU has finished in the top 25 only 10 times.
And the majority of those in the 90's.
Bring back Hammer pants, flat tops, grunge music, and Colorado football. :lol:
Woelk is a tool. CU can be competitive, and historically, it has been. If you are going tosell me on the idea CU is now a B12 N also ran, then let's see Big12N also ran ticket pricing. Oh wait, I forgot, you want to charge out the *** and deliver half ***ed CFB. If Woelk is pewing this crap on behalf of the AD, and trying to manage everybody's expectations down to ISU levels, the AD ought to expect ISU type support.
Air Force has very nice practice facilities and just announced that they will be building another, larger, indoor practice facility for varsity athletics, paid for by donations.
CSU now has an permanent IPF which is better than CU's bubble but still not a full 100 yard field and from pictures I have seen actually has a lower ceiling than the bubble.
Dal Ward is showing its age but CU locker facilities are still nicer than CSU (even with their recent major upgrades)
For stadiums, Hughes is a clear third in this race. It is small, never close to full, locker rooms are a step above a good Texas HS program. Air Force Stadium has an atmosphere unmatched in college football, the view of the plains, the mountains behind, the flyovers, and the cadets make it a great place to be on gameday. That all said Folsom with a winning team and Ralphie is still larger, fuller, louder, and has a sense of being a real college experience.
The academy is a unique place but CU is not recruiting against the academy. No school in the country has anything to match the view entering boulder on 36 with the view of Boulder, the flatirons, the peaks behind, etc.
CU is behind the other Big XII schools in facilities but CU has always been behind. An IPF, some expansion and upgrades of Dal Ward, and we are right back in the race and with the advantages of Boulder CU should be able to be competitive with top 25 teams on a yearly basis.
CSU now has an permanent IPF which is better than CU's bubble but still not a full 100 yard field and from pictures I have seen actually has a lower ceiling than the bubble.
Dal Ward is showing its age but CU locker facilities are still nicer than CSU (even with their recent major upgrades)
For stadiums, Hughes is a clear third in this race. It is small, never close to full, locker rooms are a step above a good Texas HS program. Air Force Stadium has an atmosphere unmatched in college football, the view of the plains, the mountains behind, the flyovers, and the cadets make it a great place to be on gameday. That all said Folsom with a winning team and Ralphie is still larger, fuller, louder, and has a sense of being a real college experience.
The academy is a unique place but CU is not recruiting against the academy. No school in the country has anything to match the view entering boulder on 36 with the view of Boulder, the flatirons, the peaks behind, etc.
CU is behind the other Big XII schools in facilities but CU has always been behind. An IPF, some expansion and upgrades of Dal Ward, and we are right back in the race and with the advantages of Boulder CU should be able to be competitive with top 25 teams on a yearly basis.
BuffFan
Member
This is a poorly researched article. Feels like he had a premise and found things to try to support it. So much is not taken into consideration, that it is not worth my time to correct this idiot.
Just for example, here is why Woelk’s first point is idiotic. CU generates more private money than the other two DI schools. AFA has great facilities because it is a US military academy. (Nice to have Uncle Sam as your major donor.) CSU does not have better facilities than CU. CSU has better indoor facilities and we have a better stadium. CU has the best DI stadium in Colorado and we spent a lot of money on the new addition. CU hoped that that would generate big time donor money but the Barnet scandal hit and cut the pipeline. FYI CSU only has the indoor facility because of one donor that liked Sunny and gave a onetime huge donation. CU spent almost 10 times more money on the stadium renovation than CSU spent on its indoor facility. We also built Dal Ward and part of CSU’s indoor facility serves the same purpose as it. (So they are a little shinier and newer.)
Just for example, here is why Woelk’s first point is idiotic. CU generates more private money than the other two DI schools. AFA has great facilities because it is a US military academy. (Nice to have Uncle Sam as your major donor.) CSU does not have better facilities than CU. CSU has better indoor facilities and we have a better stadium. CU has the best DI stadium in Colorado and we spent a lot of money on the new addition. CU hoped that that would generate big time donor money but the Barnet scandal hit and cut the pipeline. FYI CSU only has the indoor facility because of one donor that liked Sunny and gave a onetime huge donation. CU spent almost 10 times more money on the stadium renovation than CSU spent on its indoor facility. We also built Dal Ward and part of CSU’s indoor facility serves the same purpose as it. (So they are a little shinier and newer.)
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
the article also states that AD Donnie Duncan hired Schnellenberger, Blake and then Stoops at OU. saying "it took him three tries....".
Duncan hired Howard, Steve Owens hired Blake, and Joe Castiglione hired Stoops. i'm pretty sure. for a fact, Castiglione hired Stoops.
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Cut Woelk some slack, man. He's shilling for Bohn. It wouldn't have worked if he'd mentioned that Oklahoma got rid of its AD every time it had a bad coaching hire. :lol:
Just listened to Woody on the radio at lunch and he was discussing this issue. With Gordon Gee, Mac had a supporter and was able to get a lot of kies with academically questionable skills into school. CU allows a certain percentage of students to enter as "exceptions." I'm not sure what the percentage is, maybe 10% of overall admissions. I believe what happened is that Mac was able to get any number of athletes in as "exceptions." (I don't know what the exaxt word is). So, if Mac had 6 out of 18 that didn't meet admissions standards, he coudl get them in. Anyway, under Hoffman, the rules were changed so that the percentage of recruits allowed in under the "exception" rule had to be the same percentage of the overall student body. So, if Hawk has 20 recruits, only 2 can come in as "exceptions." Or something like that. According to Paige, Hawkins is VERY frustrated with CU's admissions rules and department.
DrunkPanda
Well-Known Member
i've always maintained that neil woelk is a moron and this article is just further proof of the fact
Yes Neiuoul. We should happily shell out $1500 a year for tickets and eat our humble pie and head home with fully bellies happy being 5-6.
Or you can stick it up your ass and turn in your press pass.
Or you can stick it up your ass and turn in your press pass.