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Now the dust is settled, who will be the redshirts from the 2013 class?

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by jwhite17, May 13, 2013.

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Which freshman will be the star newcomer in 2013-14?

  1. Tre'shaun Fletcher

    7 vote(s)
    10.6%
  2. Wesley Gordon

    30 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Jaron Hopkins

    13 vote(s)
    19.7%
  4. Chris Jenkins

    6 vote(s)
    9.1%
  5. George King

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  6. Dustin Thomas

    5 vote(s)
    7.6%
  1. jwhite17

    jwhite17 Member

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    We are facing a similar issue like last year. Tad brought in six recruits in 2012, and he reshirted two guys that we all thought would be immediate contributors and played two guys that we thought would reshirt. What will he do this year?

    2012:
    Scott - played
    Johnson - played
    Gordon - RS for academic reasons
    Jenkins - RS for strength reasons
    Stalzer - played but minimum contributions
    Talton - played but minimum contributions

    2013
    Gordon - coming off redshirt and ready to contribute at the 4/5
    Jenkins - coming off redshirt and ready to contribute 2/3
    Hopkins - true frosh
    Thomas - true frosh
    Fletcher - true frosh
    King - true frosh

    Tad rarely plays true freshmen major minutes:

    1) Dinwiddie average about 20 minutes/game till the 8th game, and then he got more time and finished the year averaging 27 minutes/game
    2) Booker averaged 21 minutes/game coming off the bench as the 6th man
    2) Roberson was a rebounding dynamo, but he was a role player that average 22 minutes/game his frosh year
    3) X Johnson didn't get major minutes till Pac 12 play and averaged about 24 minutes/game
    4) Scott is the only player that got major minutes right away and finished the year averaging 28 minutes/game

    I believe Scott got major minutes because he didn't have any competition for his position in addition to his post scoring prowess. He showed he belong scoring wise, but he struggled greatly with more physical front lines.

    The same argument applies to all those guys.

    Starting this summer, Tad will finally have a bunch of options with scoring, rebounding, defense, length, shooting blocking, etc. Depth will no longer be an issue.

    I project the starting lineup to be the same with Gordon filling in for Roberson:

    1) Dinwiddie - no questions
    2) Ski - needs to improve shooting percentages or come off bench again
    3) X - no questions
    4) Jelly - no questions
    5) Flash - will start based on defensive/shot blocking abilities

    Now, this will be the starting lineup opening night in November, and I don't see much movement unless Booker struggles shooting again, and he might get moved to the bench.

    The competition for bench minutes will be the most interesting dynamic:

    Jenkins - can he be that shooter off the bench we didn't have last year? He can play the 2/3. He's got great length and is 6'7. I think he will be the primary backup to Booker and might take his role in the starting lineup if he can shoot lights out.

    Hopkins - terrific athlete that can again play multiple positions. He might have the best hops on the team! I think he backs up Dinwiddie at the 1 and sometimes plays the 2 depending on matchups.

    Thomas - Love his game, 6'8, tons of moves, and he can dribble so well for a big man. He will backup Scott. 3/4/5 mold.

    Fletcher - He is a 3/4 mold and 6'6, and I can't see Boyle redshirting him because he is too talented at scoring to keep on the bench.

    King - He barely got accepted into school, so maybe a year to reshirt to adjust academically like Gordon would help? I love his potential, and I wouldn't want him to struggle his first year with academics, but then again, he is the only wing on the team.

    Talton - has potential, but at best, I see him 3rd on the depth chart at PG.

    Stalzer - only spot minutes unless we have major foul trouble.

    Mills - same as Stalzer

    Lots of choices. Not many minutes to go around, which is a great problem to have.

    We only have one senior next year in Mills, so there will probably be some attrition again like every year.

    I can only see George King reshirting due to academic concerns and staying eligible because Boyle loves to think of the long term future of the player and program.

    We will have a super young bench, but it will be extremely talented and will have scoring ability all over the floor. Something we never had under Boyle. Very exciting team to watch next year. The competition in practice might be harder than games!

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I think you're pretty good with the analysis here.

    A couple differing opinions:

    - I see Fletch as more of a 2/3 than a 3/4. He's got a really nice handle.
    - I can see Gordon coming off the bench as a 6th man since he could sub multiple positions, including Scott (we'd go more high post, though)
    - If Gordon doesn't start, I can see Thomas. Having a "4" that opens up the lane with his shooting would be huge for Jelly and Mayor
    - I agree with King being the most likely redshirt, but he's also the closest guy to being a Dre replacement so maybe not

    Edit: I'm going to add a poll with a slightly different question
     
  3. mattrob

    mattrob Club Member Club Member

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    I agree with nik on Gordon and Fletcher. I really don't see Fletcher as a 4, nor do I see Gordon starting. I think Gordon will be great coming off the bench for 18-20 minutes though. I'll go out on a limb and say King takes the 5th starter spot. His style of play seems to compliment the rest of the lineup very well and he's got the ability to help out a slightly undersized XJ inside, while also being able to get out and finish on the break.

    I think Gordon will get minutes at the 4-5 positions off the bench, while Hopkins will see time at both guard positions. The real battle, in my opinion, will be Fletcher, Jenkins and Thomas fighting for the last two spots in the regular rotation. I don't think there's room for all three to see a lot of time. Talton and Stalzer's fates seem pretty closely tied to Hopkins' development. If he hits the ground running, they probably won't see a lot of time, but if he struggles at all, one of them will likely see regular minutes.
     
  4. sliderNcider

    sliderNcider MacLovin Club Member

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    One of the incoming frosh. 6 in one class is too many
     
  5. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    Would like to see a starting lineup with Gordon in it. Something like:

    PG/SG: Dinwiddie
    PG/SG: Ski
    SF: XJ
    PF: Gordon
    C: Scott

    Agree with 'Nik on who to redshirt.
     
  6. Gold

    Gold Well-Known Member

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    Thomas reminds me of a mini Scott with his ability to score around the hoop, but with a sweet shot from outside. Not sure what kind of rebounder he is, but I think he starts.

    5 - Scott
    4 - XJ
    3 - Thomas
    2 - Booker
    1 - Dinwiddie

    Backups

    5 - Gordon
    4 - King
    3 - Jenkins
    2 - Hopkins
    1 - Talton

    With Fletcher redshirting, and Mills and Stalzer getting sporadic minutes.
     
  7. Gold

    Gold Well-Known Member

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    After looking at Fletcher's tape, could easily see him starting over Thomas, Thomas taking King's backup spot, and King redshirting. The talent we have coming in presents some great problems!
     
  8. Buffenuf

    Buffenuf massive tool

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    All are interesting analyses! Based upon finishing momentum, I think Hopkins may RS, along with the lesser advanced of Talton and Stalzer, although it could be King based upon academics.

    The toughest team CU starters may face in pre-conference, is made up of their own subs on a daily basis! That will be a huge advantage, for the regulars and for development of the six newcomers.
     
  9. rosstr

    rosstr Well-Known Member

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    I agree in that I think Fletcher starts and contributes the most from what I saw on tape. I think Booker starts until mid season at which point another freshman takes his place. Thomas and King to redshirt?
     
  10. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    I am going to go different and think we see platoons. Ski may start by default but he will probably be the first sub out.

    Platoon 1:
    Spencer
    King
    XJ
    Thomas
    Jelly

    Platoon 2:
    Ski
    Jenkins
    Fletch
    Gordon
    With either Thomas or Jelly staying in this rotation.

    I think J hop redshirts to get bigger and stronger.
     
  11. BuffTE41

    BuffTE41 Member

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    I think Fletcher is the most polished incoming recruit so I voted for him. We have serious length and athleticism so any of the incoming players could make an immediate impact.

    I know we should probably redshirt one of the freshman, but I'm so antsy to see all of them in action it would be painful to choose one.
     
  12. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    We must walk the depth line carefully. Be careful to not take a football mentality. It's fantastic that we finally have a bench, and it will be a great asset if managed appropriately. But again, "depth" in basketball is a different beast than football. You can win national championships with 7 guys getting major minutes and an 8th appearing here and there. Just a friendly reminder.
     
  13. SECOBuffsFan

    SECOBuffsFan Active Member

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    As far as the poll goes...I went with Jenkins because this team needs a deep threat and I think he is the guy

    As far as readshirting...I would say probably King but wouldn't be suprised if no one did
     
  14. BuffHerd

    BuffHerd Club Member Club Member

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    Dont think it is out of the question that Ski does not start. Especially if we need to put a bigger lineup on the floor. Lots of flexibility with this team, red shirts or not. King redshirts and we see him next year at 6'8".
     
  15. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

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    Fletcher definitely isn't a 4. He's a 2/3.
    Jenkins will see the least minutes of any of the 6 freshmen unless someone redshirts.
    Gordon will be the star freshman simply because he'll get the most minutes as a starter.
    Fletcher and Hopkins will see the most minutes out of the true freshmen.
    King and Thomas will see big minutes if they're as good as I think they are.
    Stalzer and Mills won't see much time at all.
     
  16. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

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    If either of those guys is a redshirt option, then they are guys you get out of the program in 4 years. No point in keeping guys an extra year that are already being recruited over.
     
  17. wyobuff

    wyobuff Well-Known Member

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    I went down to ptarmigan yesterday for the CU coaches road tour. For those that are up in the air about attending, I suggest you give it a try if you can make it at all. It was a great time, complete with a free lunch and meeting of quite a few alums, coaches, and AD staff.

    Tad only took 1 question when addressing the crowd "was chen's shot good at mchale"? but I did talk to him after and ask a few questions. Thought about starting a thread but figured it'd fit in here.

    He told me that they were going to play flash (gordon?) at the 4/5, depending on what the situation on the court was. Tad said he was an excellent defender, and roberson had a lot of trouble scoring on him during practice. Sounds to me like he had a very good redshirt year, and should be able to contribute solid minutes for the buffs, no matter if he starts.

    I also asked him about redshirting, and he said they were planning on redshirting at least 1 guy this year, though possibly two - I did not ask which ones, because I wasnt sure if he could even answer that or not.

    I also asked about scheduling, and he said he thinks he's gotten 2 more games worked out, but the contracts have not been signed yet so they are witholding the announcement until everything is final. He was very excited about the gave v OSU in vegas, mostly that we got a neutral court game because he didnt want to go stillwater.
     
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  18. skibum

    skibum Peed in your Cheerios. Club Member

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    Buffnut may have a point about academics. It could be that the redshirt(s) is decided off the court: if any of the incoming frosh struggle in the classroom early on, that could lead to them redshirting just to help them with the transition to college academics.

    The best news of course is that on-court we have the luxury of being able to do that.
     
  19. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm calling my shot now - Jaron Hopkins starts.
     
  20. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

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    That's bold bro. I'm not sure we can afford to start two guys with bad jumpers.
     
  21. BuffsNYC

    BuffsNYC Uptown Club Member

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    That's not unusual.
     
  22. Squeegee

    Squeegee New Member

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    New to the board but why is everyone so concerned with Redshirting? Don't you kind of want to honor the contract but get them through their 4 years on open up that scholarship? Redshirting just delays the availability of the scholarship.
     
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  23. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how good you think a kid is and if you want to space the classes out a little more. Ideally, you don't want to have to sign 6 kids in one class.
     
  24. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Welcome to the board. (How did you sign up in November and go the entire hoops season without posting? :smile2:)

    My only concern with redshirting is because of class balance. Tad took 6 guys in 2012. Redshirting 2 put 4 guys in that class, which works well for numbers in the program. You figure 2 or 3 of that group will be her all four years.

    Then he took another 4 players in 2013. With 2 already redshirting, that once again puts 6 guys into a class. That creates the same issue we were looking at last year and it makes sense to redshirt 1 or 2.

    I don't like redshirting guys who can be primary rotation guys as true freshmen. That's a waste. I also don't like redshirting guys who come in fairly polished but lack the athleticism to ever become all-conference types. Get what you can from those guys in 4 years and don't tie up that scholarship for 5.

    Redshirting someone who has raw skills or lacks college muscle or needs a year to adjust culturally/academically when the numbers give you that luxury -- that I can agree with. Gordon and Jenkins are both unlikely to leave early for the NBA. And they would have each played under 10 minutes a night in 2012-13. However, both have the potential to be All-Conference level performers in their 5th year (2016-17). As a long-term play for program management, it made a lot of sense.

    On this note, I want to reiterate that the idea of redshirting Stalzer or Talton is horrible. That would put 7 guys into the freshman class instead of the current 6. That accomplishes nothing good.
     
  25. Buffs1987

    Buffs1987 New Member

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    I do not see Booker getting the shots and minutes he did this season. If he does, then this kids are not nearly as good as we think. Hopkins and King seem like the best candidates for a RS right now in my opinion. King because academics and his late signing, Hopkins because he cannot shoot at a D-1 level and will not be able to get to the hoop like he can in HS and AAU.

    There seems to be the most depth at the guard position with SD, Booker, Jenkins, Fletcher, Talton and Eli. I think Talton is better than everyone else does, he is extremely quick on D and has proven he can hit big shots. He will figure out the speed of the D-I level game and be just fine.

    I really like Thomas, his attitude and his game. He is probably going to be our 3rd best offensive big-man behind Scott and XJ. However, his game seems to be more on the outside and driving than post up and pick-n-roll. He can walk right in and start I think. If not first off the bench to spell Wes G or Scott.

    These are all great problems to have though and like it's been said before, we need to wait until the Fall so they can get on the court together and figure it out. We are just guessing now, if you go back to past off-seasons people generally guessed wrong.
     
  26. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Welcome to the bandwagon. I'm torn between him and Jenkins, of course. I bet he starts more down the road, ala XJ
     
  27. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Welcome?

    I've been driving that bandwagon. ****, I built the damn thing.
     
  28. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    bah, the starting bandwagon. :smile2:
     
  29. Squeegee

    Squeegee New Member

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    The redshirt candidates that I see on the team are Stalzer, Talton, Hopkins and King. I don't see why you would give King a scholly and not expect him to play right away as opposed to saving that scholly for the next class. If you redshirt Stalzer, I don't see how that year of sitting out will make him better than Talton with another year of experience under his belt. With Dom coming in next year that puts him at best third on the depth chart, no better than this year, keeping that scholarship for another year. Same with Talton if he RS and Stalzer plays. If they both RS, that means Hopkins or Ski are going to play point when Spencer is out and that puts both of them behind Hopkins and Ski. So, redshirting any of these guys doesn't make sense to me. The only one that may make sense is Hopkins but to me I'd rather let him play and see what happens. Attrition and injuries (good reason to redshirt) are going to happen and those 6 doubtfully will be graduating together.

    I'm not sure the program wouldn't be better off if we didn't redshirt Gordon and Jenkins this year. Is it possible that we would have won a few more games with them, gotten a better seed and made it to the Sweet 16? Obviously, no one knows but...
    Maybe that could have brought us an even better recruit than George King and others that we may not get in the class with Dom.
     
  30. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Why do people keep thinking Talton and Stalzer are gonna redshirt? The only people on that list are the new frosh, any one of which could redshirt. Tad is gonna let them battle it out over the summer and into the fall, and whichever ones end up with the lowest projected minutes/ have academic issues will have that discussion.
     

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