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OK here is my question

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Chilly, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    Many are pointing to Hawks "Body of Work" as evidence that he can't coach for jack diddle.

    Lets throw out all the image posiitives and recruiting obstacles he had to over come the first 2 years he was here.

    Let's agree to call year 1 a throw away year. We all know just how bad it had gotten and I don't think there is a coach on this planet that could have done much better given where we were at.


    Lets just look at his record that last 2 years.
    Aug. 31, 2008 Colorado State (FSN) W 38-17
    Sept. 6, 2008 E. Washington W 31-24
    Sept. 18, 2008 West Virginia (ESPN) W 17-14
    Sept. 27, 2008 at Florida State (ABC) L 39-21
    Starts out 3-1 and has beaten the 2 teams he should have and beat a toss up game.
    Oct. 4, 2008 Texas (FSN) L 38-14
    Oct. 11, 2008 at Kansas (ESPN2) L 30-14
    Loses to two highly ranked teams. No we didn't look good losing, but does anyone believe he should have this team beating Texas and KU at this point in the rebuilding process?
    Oct. 18, 2008 Kansas State (FSN-RM) W 14-13
    Tough game but we come out with a win against a team that is probably close to us talent wise.
    Oct. 25, 2008 at Missouri (FSN) L 58-0 4-4
    yes another bad loss, but this is again I very highly ranked team. Did anyone really expect to win this game.
    Nov. 1, 2008 at Texas A&M L 24-17 4-5
    Very tough loss. Would have like to have one this game, but it's on the road and again I would say just like KSU A&M is a close parallel to the Buffs. Losing to them on the road is not a killer especially in well played game.
    Nov. 8, 2008 Iowa State (Versus) W 28-24
    Shouldn't be close but never excuse a win
    Nov. 15, 2008 OK State (ABC) L 30-17
    Another top ranked team that we should have all known would most likely not be a win at this point in the rebuilding process
    Nov. 28, 2008 at Nebraska L 40-31
    tough loss here just like the A&M loss. But we took them to the wire on the road. Nothing to be ashamed of in this game.


    Sept. 1, 2007 Colorado State (FSN) W 31-28
    Sept. 8, 2007 at Arizona State (FSN) L 33-14
    Sept. 15, 2007 Florida State (ESPN) L 16-6
    Sept. 22, 2007 Miami-OH W 42-0
    Beats 2 teams he should and loses the 2 that would have been very tough wins.
    Sept. 29, 2007 Oklahoma (FSN) W 27-24
    Beats a team at home that no one gave us a chance against.
    Oct. 6, 2007 at Baylor W 43-23
    Beats a team on the road that he should have beat.
    Oct. 13, 2007 at Kansas State (ESPN2) L 47-20
    Tough loss here, but it's on the road with a young team rebuilding. I would have liked to see better, but it's one of those tough loses along the way sometimes.
    Oct. 20, 2007 Kansas (ESPN) L 19-14
    tough game against a top 20 team.
    Oct. 27, 2007 at Texas Tech (ABC) W 31-26
    Great win on the road against a team that is on par with CU in my book right now.
    Nov. 3, 2007 Missouri (FSN) L 55-10
    Bad loss to a top 10 team. No suprises here.
    Nov. 10, 2007 at Iowa State L 31-28
    This should have never been a loss, and to my way of thinking the worse loss in Hawkins time at CU. Up 28-0 at halftime. Losing this game was BAD really really BAD. Negates the TTU win on the road.
    Nov. 23, 2007 Nebraska (ABC) W 65-51
    Beats NU at home. What more do we want?
    Dec. 30, 2007 Alabama L 30-24
    Poor first half, and just not enough in the tank to pull it out.


    I look at the last two years and I just don't see what everyone else is seeing I guess. It appears we have won and lost most of the games we should have and had some surprise wins and losses along the way that about even out.

    I believe he is on schedule with were you expect him to be after year 3. A bowl game would have been nice last year, but we played a brutal Big 12 schedule.

    I am more prone to believe that the CSU game is one of those suprise loses this year and that he is going to finish the year about where you would expect. 7 to 8 wins with a young team and bowl game. Look at the roster. How many seniors are starting. 10 wins and no excuses wasn't meant for the fans. It was meant for the players. It wasn't meant to instill confidence and accountability. But no one should have expected 10 wins this year. 7-8 is realistic. I would expect that this team will "grow up" before our eyes this season. Next year is the year this team explodes.

    Year 5 is where it will hit the fan.
     
  2. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right. It's the sting of losing to CSU that added mucho insult to the injury. But the season isn't lost.
     
  3. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    No argument. The CSU loss eats at me. I hate losing to them and it is a game we should most clearly have one.

    I am just trying to add a little perspective is all. Maybe also for my own sanity to pull me back from the ledge just a little.
     
  4. DesertDawg526

    DesertDawg526 Resident Dawg Club Member

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    I will say that my expectations evidently were one year in front of yours.

    I hope you are right and the team explodes next year, or even later this year.

    My fear is that things don't change and we're in the same place one year from today, and I'm afraid of things "hitting the fan"...

    Either way, GO 'BUFFS!
     
  5. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    You're starting to sound like a cubs fan. :smile2:

    Last year, cu beat csu( new coaching staff) WV on a last second fg in OT due to their coach stewart having a brain fart the last minute at the 50. Beat K-state by 1 pt and escaped at home vs iowa state, one of the worst teams in div 1 on a goal line stand. Brown bails us out with an interception to win in the final minutes vs eastern washington. Not very impressive.

    Just because a team is highly ranked we should expect 58-0 and 55-10? There are games there that I thought cu wouldn't win but it would be nice to at least compete and show some form of consistency.

    CU has lost 5 or more games every year since 2002, enough is enough. I'm tired of hearing 2008,then it's 2009 now 2010. I hope we start the turnaround friday night vs toledo because recruiting isn't going to be a positive if this keeps up.
     
  6. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that there is no tangible improvement. He is still making the same mistakes and appears to be digging his heels in rather than learning from his mistakes. We won't go 0-12 this year, but he's doing a damn good job of a Ty Willingham impersonation.
     
  7. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    6-7
    5-7

    Wins that were embarrassing performances. Losses that were even more embarrassing performances. Not a single assistant coach fired over the course of 3 losing seasons. A team that played soft in it's home opener in year 4.

    It hit the fan last year, we just chose to believe the excuses. I'll be damned if I'll start using the same ones to justify being mediocre or worse this year.
     
  8. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I know you are not referring to me, but I have always thought year 5 is judgment year. Sometimes good things do come to those who are patient. Not always, but I really do believe good things will happen for CU under Hawkins. Now I may look back after year 5 and consider myself a fool for thinking that, but at this point I see enough positives, Not all positive, but enough to continue having patience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  9. buffwings

    buffwings Club Member Club Member

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    #2 in the hotseat. This is quoted from the site:
    "2. Dan Hawkins, Colorado – There was a lot of talk in the offseason in Boulder, Colorado about how the CU offense was going to come out and run the ball down the throats of their opponents and we here at Coaches Hot Seat are still trying to figure out why the Buffs sent out the freshman girls Ping-Pong team to play Colorado State on Sunday. Oh, that was the Colorado football team that got manhandled and thrown around like a rag doll by the CSU Rams? Hmmmmm, if that was the Colorado football team on Folsom Field in the first half against Colorado State then that is one sorry ass football team. It is time for the people in Boulder to face facts, on too many occasions in Dan Hawkins 3+seasons at CU, the Buffs have been pushed around and beat up and unless Hawkins find some magic elixir in the next couple of days that he can sprinkle over this group of boys masquerading as the Colorado football program, the Buffs may be finished before we even get out the gate in ’09. In his fourth year at Colorado, Dan Hawkins should have the Buffs competing for the Big 12 North, which we here at Coaches Hot Seat predicted to happen before the season began, but if CU keeps this sloppy and uninspired play up and doesn’t get at least to a .500 record, the people running CU athletics will have a decision on their hands to just how long they can wait before they bring in another head football coach to get this thing turned around. Lastly, from our point of view, and we have the most unbiased point of view that Dan Hawkins and the CU staff will ever hear (no dog in this fight), it looks to us that Cody Hawkins is the starting QB at Colorado because his Daddy is the head coach at Colorado. It’s not that we know the capability of the backup QBs at CU, just that we do know that 3 people on the Coaches Hot Seat Flag Football Team could beat Hawkins out and all three of those guys are almost 20 years older than the young QB. Cody Hawkins is way too quick to panic in the pocket, i.e., happy feet, and it looks to us that half of the Coaches Hot Seat Flag Football Team could beat him in a 40-yard dash, and again, we are almost 20 years older than the young QB. Dan Hawkins can Hee-Haw (hey, Dan Hawkins Hee-Hawing!) all he wants about his boy being the best QB on the team, but from where we sit we are starting to get the sneaking suspicion that “Hawk” doesn’t want another QB on the field, because if another QB gets on the field for CU, his boy might not play another game in college. Give that some thought Buff fans, because it looks like there are very troubling times ahead in Boulder, for the Dad, for the Son, and for the CU Girls Ping Pong team if they keep showing up to play instead of the Buffs football players. Maybe actually hitting someone in practice instead of the glorified pillow fights that CU holds would be a good place to start!"

    He needs to see the reality of the situation he's in.
     
  10. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    You are bound and determined to not see the good wins and losses it seems.
     
  11. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    No not putting that on you, just what i've read and heard from various posters etc...

    I've never had patience so, I guess i'm SOL :lol:
     
  12. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Some people have made up their minds on this issue. I'm not saying if they're right or wrong, but I'm on the fence. I still support Hawkins and think he can turn it around.
     
  13. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    You mean like being 2-8 in our last 10, with the only wins being nailbiters at home against KSU and ISU?
     
  14. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    When over half the team were underclassmen? I know it's not popular, but very few coaches could've won with that kind of inexperience.
     
  15. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Next year seems like we'll have a lot of puzzle pieces to play with. Toney Clemons, for one. And all the redshirt guys will be on the field, everybody else more experienced, we don't lose many starters...

    2010. sure, why not.
     
  16. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    Yep. No more excuses. Frankly, I don't care why they aren't winning. I just care that they aren't winning. And happy-go-lucky platitudes and quirky sayings just don't cut it anymore.
     
  17. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    Or 3-1 to start the season with a win at home against a ranked team.
     
  18. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    I agree. Hawkins has the talent and the experience to get it done. I'm very pissed off about this last game, but we should see how he responds.

    The Toledo game is HUGE for our program now.
     
  19. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    what was the record after that?
     
  20. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    I'll still give him through the rest of the year, although I reserve the right to change my mind. :lol:

    I know I'm not alone, but I saw a soft, not-ready-for-primetime team on Sunday. Not only did they not look better than last year, they looked worse. Much worse. If he doesn't make some HUGE changes quickly, I think we're ****ed for the year. And saying that Cody is the guy, barring injury, for the remainder of the year is terrible. The RBs better get ready for 8-9 in the box all day long. Because no DC is afraid of Cody beating him with his arm.
     
  21. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a great start to the season that included being down 2 touchdowns at halftime at home to a 1-AA team.
     
  22. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I fee as if you guys are missing the point, but so be it.
     
  23. Nor Cal Buff

    Nor Cal Buff Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can tell your point is that Hawkins should have as much time as he wants to continue repeating the same mistakes and make a national laughingstock of CU football. Perhaps you should look into switching allegiances to Duke for football.
     
  24. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    and also include beating a ranked team BCS team at home.

    We can do this all day. that is the point. To act as if the last 3 years has been nothing but negatives is not providing an honest evaluation. I have not said there were not any disappoints along the way. There have been plenty, but there has been an equal amount of surprises in that same time frame. I don't understand the choice to ignore them and pretend as if they did not exist or did not happen.
     
  25. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    No Barnett did took care of that for us.
     
    Sexton Hardcastle likes this.
  26. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    In most programs, it's year 3. We've been patient, Chilly.

    Here is the list of BCS programs that fired coaches prior to the 2007 season. New head coach in parentheses.

    Alabama (Nick Saban)
    Arizona State (Dennis Erickson)
    Iowa State (Gene Chizik - since got Auburn gig)
    Michigan State (Mark Dantonio)
    North Carolina (Butch Davis)
    North Carolina State (Tom O'Brien)

    Do you need to give guys like Saban, Dantonio and Davis 2 more years before being able to decide if they're doing a good job? If we do the ultimate kindness of throwing away Hawkins' first recruiting class and first year's season to account for the difficulties of what he walked into, he should be measuring up to this list if he's a good coach since tenure would be the same. Is he measuring up?
     
  27. DrunkPanda

    DrunkPanda Active Member

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    what IS your point? that it's ok to lose 90% of the conference games if we can squeak by a division 1aa team in pre-conference play? the games we won were against much weaker competition than the games we lost
     
  28. Hi.O

    Hi.O Member

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    Well Coaches like Saban and programs like Alabama can recruit big time players on their stature alone, so it's really hard to compare them to us.
     
  29. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I agree Chilly its early but the guy is 2-8 since the 3-0 start last year.. 2-8.. I mean that's pathetic.



    Hawk's best wins are the 2007 OU, 2007 TT and the win against WVU last year.. Other than that, there's not much positive and lots of lowpoints (CSU, Iowa State blown lead, Missouri blow out last year, Montana State)


    Also a coach in his fourth year should have some sort of identity on offense or defense. I don't see any as of yet..
     
  30. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of those coaches walked into the same situation you had hear at CU. I am not saying ALL new coaches get 5 years. I think the situation that happened at CU was unique in a lot of ways.

    I was willing to give Barnett 3 years. Neu had to win from day 1 with the talent he took over.

    I think Hawkins situation is more inline with what Mac, Barnett at NW, Snyder at KSU, Pinkel at MU.

    Again every situation is different, but in those situations about 5 years was closer to the norm.
     

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