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OK, I'm going to defend Hawkins and you had better listen

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by DBT, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)

    Anyway, here it is:

    2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.

    2007 he had 26 recruits. The class averaged 2.77 stars. Of THAT class, 15 are still in the program and every ****ing one is listed as a sophomore.

    2008 had 21 recruits. The class averaged a whopping 3.24 stars! So, of that class, there is one senior, 10 freshmen and 6 sophomores! Not one single Jr.

    Now, this years class. 2009. The class average dropped to 2.70. Not good. Of this class, there are 16 fresmen and one junior, Andre Simmons.

    So, of all Hawk's classes combined, there are, at this very moment, 26 freshmen, 21 sophs, 9 juniors and 3 seniors. A whopping 29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons.

    3 seniors you dumb ****s! 9 Juniors! Of Hawk's first 4 recruiting classes, 1/3 have left and way over half are FR./SO.

    My point is that it takes a helluva lot more than 4 years to build a program. Add to that the fact that GB's last couple of classes were hurt by restrictions and Hawk's first couple of classes were hurt by perception, and you have a really good explaination of where we are. The scandal killed this program. Don't forget that Diante Jackson wanted, with all his heart, to come to CU and his mom and grandma wouldn't let him because of their bias.

    And now, a million of you dumb****s are ripping the program and Hawkins apart all over the internet. Sheesh! I'm exasporated. You people, instead of helping Hawkins out, are helping schools like 'braska bury us. Way to go.
     
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  2. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Yeah, we're the dumb****s.:rolleyes:

    29 players gone from his recruiting classes and that has nothing to do with Hawkins.:rolleyes: Undersigning in this year's class and three guys not making it in is not on Hawkins at all.:rolleyes:

    If you can explain to me what we're building to, I would love to hear it. Hawk has brought this all upon himself.
     
  3. buffs6236

    buffs6236 Club Member Club Member

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    i am not happy with current performace but i am willing to wait at least the end of this year probably next before demanding a new coach. keep in mind i live in omaha and travel to all home games and sit in section 104. (bohn raised my ticket prices this year. i pay 1100 for 2 and still support the team. u may not support hawk but i support our kids.
     
  4. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    No, you're the dumbass blaming the fans. Who is accountable for recruiting? Who is accountable for UNDERSIGNING EVER ****ING CLASS? Who is accountable for players transfering under his watch? Finally, WHO IS ****ING ACCOUNTABLE FOR 13-26 and yapping about 10 wins and his team has had it's a$$es handed to them by a mwc and mac school?

    You are a perfect fan for hawk, NO ACCOUNTABILTY.

    **** OFF
     
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  5. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    this... you dumb****... :wink2:

    unfortunately, that avg star rating is gonna go through the floor this year.
     
  6. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    I like your fire DBT, not sure I agree with the assessment as you laid out. The guys leaving simply can't be ignored, and the small, miscalculated recruiting classes are going to hurt us more next year than this year.

    But I think your point is that there is way too much in-family bashing going on, which I agree with. CU fans, alumni, and family need to support the school and the program, and if you want to be critical, do it intelligently, without hurting the program or its chances of success.

    Y'all think Mister Jones et. al aren't reading this stuff?
     
  7. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    My defense of Dan Hawkins goes like this, you doddering old man.

    The CSU loss was a protest for Bohn's agreement to move The CSU series to Invesco for the next bajillion years.

    The Toledo loss was a protest for Bohn botching the home-away series against Miami (OH) with a crummy 5 day turn around.

    Now that his protests have been submitted, Hawkins gets back to the business of beating teams that he's supposed to be beating.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  8. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Overall winning % of .333, but 2-9 over his last 11 games (.222). If the cupboard was bare when GB left, shouldn't we be getting better instead of worse?

    DBT, I think pretty much everyone would be right with you if we had beaten CSU and Toledo. Are you arguing that we looked well-coached in those games and simply got beat by teams with more talent?
     
  9. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    You know, syko, you can be a real dick when you put your mind to it. :lol:
     
  10. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    That's a big part of the current problem, and it's on Hawk. Hawk undersigns his classes as it is, and then when guys leave he gives scholarships to 5'6" WRs from Palisade who have played 3 snaps in their career. So not only do the Buffs have extra scholarships just laying around, there are guys on scholarship who probably shouldn't be.

    Last year's class is a perfect example. Why he only took 20 guys, I'll never know. Then throw in the loss of Moten, Simon and Nuckols and you see how we ended up here.

    There should never be a class with 17 guys in it. Never. There are 85 scholarships available, Juicebox. Don't be afraid to use them all. Greyshirting a guy or two is not the end of the world. And it's far better than the alternative.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  11. chipwich

    chipwich Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    Nice rant :rolleyes:

    Why can't they tackle, catch, or stop taking penalties ?

    Preparation has nothing to do with talent level or recruiting.

    It's about the coaching or the lack thereof.
     
    Waldo likes this.
  12. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Thanks, you can be a real"term of endearment" when you want. :lol:


    4 years of this crap and you blame the fans, brilliant!
     
  13. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I understand completely what you are saying. Especially when considering the play of our offensive and defensive lines. They are really young.

    There have been loads of injuries on top of all that too.

    But there are two things that I don't like:

    "29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons"

    -Is a big problem, IMO. Every single one of those scholarships offered to those players is opportunity lost. I know that the 2006 class was a rush job, but all those offers in 2007 and 2008 to players that had little chance of being eligible are part of the blame on "Hawk love". I know that every once in a while you get a kid like Mohler, but limit your exposure to those types of players to 1 or 2 a cycle not 3-5. And all the players that left that were experienced is really hurting us, but that didn't happen in a vaccuum. Sure, every team has attrition but we have seen over half a dozen quality players transfer out of CU with only two (McKnight and Toney Clemons) coming our direction.

    The other issue is that of all those stars you talked about many of them are not getting on the field. Yes they are young, but so are the walkons that are being played in front of them.

    But the biggest issue is that knowing all of the above, and everything that you posted, why in the world is he PROMISING 10 WINS! Why is he putting so much pressure on his own VERY YOUNG team?

    -I have taken a step back since the Toledo anger and re-assessed my own expectations and we really do look like we will field a better team... in 2010. Most of our players will have that much more experience and we should be able to add the word "depth" next to our "chart".

    However, all of that assumes that Hawkins and Co. are going to make these players better and better as time passes. While the evidence so far is that players seem lost, out of position, slow, and unprepared: the exact opposite of being coached up.

    I could give a **** about Nebraska fans and others perceptions. I always will be a loyal Buff fan and support our program, but being a Patriot means we have the right to question when things aren't going good.

    But I really do appreciate your pointing out our main issue, it really can't be ignored that youth and inexperience is hurting our chances right now.
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    [video=youtube;PkGDrV_2ehI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGDrV_2ehI[/video]
     
  15. Spider

    Spider Member

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    "4 years of this crap and you blame the fans, brilliant!"

    Well, whether it's fans in the forums here or on the street, at a party or in the stands at the game, the majority attitude does get to the players and staff over time.

    The fans cannot be blamed for the bad times or given credit for the good times, but they are a part of the equation, for sure.
     
  16. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Good points DBT. But the guy is still 13-26. This ain't baseball and winning one out of three doesn't cut it. Anybody watching the games comes away with a WTF feeling. The team looks much worse than last year. Why? How can that be possible? Did everyone take a stupid pill over the summer? Were Patrick Williams and Girthy THAT good? Sure we miss them, but give me a break. Hawk is having his head handed tohim by first and second year coaches (Fairchild, Beckman in '09, Mike Sherman and Bo Peep in '08, you can add the EWU too for '08 IMO, Dennis Erickson, Ron Prince Nick Saban and Gene effin Chizik in '07, and the Montana St. guy, Dennis Erickson again, in '06). Other than the EWU guy, I can't think of a coach who had less time than Hawk at his school CU HAS beat. How do you explain that? Hawk has less to work with than ALL of those other coaches? I don't think so.
     
  17. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for putting in that much thought. I'm torn up about this season, but I still think Hawkins is trying to get the right kids, the right mix of kids to be a successful team.

    All that moaning about undersigning, Hawkins can't do anything about Diante's family wanting him elsewhere. Or Nuckols not making it in. Or Moten and Simon for Pete's sake. He went for some big players that didn't pan out, yet if he goes for lesser-known players who jump at the chance to play D1 in Colorado, he's attacked for that.

    It's not perfect by any means, but I am trying to be supportive. Two losses is just what it is. The rest of the season remains to be seen. And I think Hawkins will be here next year, no matter what anyone's opinion is.

    If that's true, that Hawkins is our coach in 2010 and maybe beyond, then we need to do what we can to support the program. Ripping on it incessentaly does more harm to a kid like Mister Jones than any loss could do. Thinking we have crappy fans isn't going to win us any recruits.
     
  18. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    All you've managed to do here is show what a ****ty job Hawkins has done running the program. As HC it's his responsibility to bring in and, most importantly, KEEP players. I don't care why the players left, or what happened, the ultimate responsibility is on him. Period. The buck stops at the HC.
     
  19. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    sorry, Katoa, Blackmon, Josh Smith --- what could Hawkins have done? Some kids just aren't going to work out, no matter how badly you want them to get it together and love CU, football and apple pie
     
  20. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    Hawk has brought in 89 players since he has been here. 29 of them have left. That's 1 in 3 either did not get in, or transferred! 1 in 3!

    No program can succeed like that!
     
  21. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I'll admit, the kids not still in the program is distressing. Here they are. You can assess why the left:

    2006
    Quentin Borders
    Bill Boyer
    Jason Brace
    Erik Faatagi
    Steven Fendry
    Sherman Lang
    Justin Nonu
    Thomas Perez
    Wes Simon
    Ino Vitali

    (How many of those guys do you dip ****s remember?) Plus, this was Hawkins' first year and he had 5 weeks to throw the class together.

    2007
    Kendrick Celestine (who wants back in)
    Matt Ballenger (who knew he'd never crack the top two)
    P.T. Gates (who couldn't make grades)
    Drew Hudgins (?)
    Nick Nelson (?)
    Chris Perri (helped beat the **** out of a kid I think)
    Josh Smith (Rap star)
    Lamont Smith (?)
    Nate Vahimounonga (?)

    2008
    Chance Blackmon (Who the hell knows)
    Jameson Davis (bad knee)
    Lynn Katoa (Couldn't stay out of trouble and in class)
    Ryan Wallace (?)

    2009
    Moten (Couldn't score a 17 on the ACT)
    Nuckols (See Moten)
    Simon (Grades)

    So, as they have established a recruiting program, the (NOTs) are going down.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  22. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    You're right, some kids just aren't going to work out, Katoa for example. two or three a class is one thing. Hawk is averaging nearly 8 per class "not working out". If you sign 20 kids a year, which Hawk usually signs less, that's missing on nearly 50% of his recruits. There's no reason a Josh Smith shouldn't still be here, or a Kai, or numerous other recruits.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  23. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    It still does not explain signing 19-20 guys. You know how other schools handle this? They sign more guys when they know it is a major risk with certain guys. We knew Nuckols was a HUGE risk. You most certainly can do something about that. We turned away other DTs for visits late in the process because the staff had the situation all figured out.:huh: It is not too much to ask for a coaching staff to sign at or near the freaking scholarship limit every single year.

    I'm really at a loss at how some of you guys continue to defend illogical moves by this coaching staff.
     
  24. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
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  25. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Blame the fans for what? I'm not blaming the fans. My point is that they are not going to fire Hawkins. So, what are we left with? Waiting. So, my post is a message of hope to our fans, for one. It is also a message that Hawkins is going to be here like it or not, so bashing the program all over the internet is like cutting off your ugly ****ing nose to spite your ugly ****ing face!
     
  26. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

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    Marquez Herrod

    I remember him for some reason.
     
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  27. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    4 from '08 and 3 from '09.
     
  28. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    BTW, DBT, I think you can look directly at Cody Hawkins to see why Nelson and Ballenger left. Cody didn't run them off (I think Cody is a hell of a young man), but the fact that he's the starting QB and his dad is the coach is clearly hurting CU's QB recruiting/retention, IMO.
     
  29. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    3 that have not made it in initially (in a very small class). If the normal attrition of 2-3 more guys occurs down the line, yikes.
     
  30. chipwich

    chipwich Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    :lol:
     

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