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Omaha World Hearld says CU & NU most likely won't pay much $$$

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by NashBuff, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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  2. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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  3. NW Buff

    NW Buff Club Member Club Member

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    As the author of that article basically says, it's all speculation right now. Whether from him or Chip Brown, nobody knows how it's going to play out. The Big12 doesn't want CU to stick around an extra year but then can't demand that CU leaves and pays a higher penalty. The lawyers will argue for the next year or so, I imagine.
     
  4. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Does anybody know when conference revenues are distributed? This will have to be resolved prior to then. While CU doesn't have to write any checks, the Big 12 does. The size of the check they write is what is in question here.
     
  5. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Nice to see another news paper reporting this, I'd like to see Woelk get on it as well.
     
  6. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    What's interesting is how stacked the B12 is with attorneys at the highest level of office within the universities. NU Chancellor Pearlman, OU President Boren, UT President Powers, Baylor President Starr, B12 Commish Beebe...the list goes on.

    I point this out because CU's leadership does NOT include attornies, yet they find themselves swimming with the sharks.

    Bruce Benson: Bachelor's in Geology from CU
    Phil Destephano: Bachelors & PhD (humanities) Ohio State, Masters (English) from West Virginia.
    Mike Bohn: BA from Kansas, Masters (Sports Admin) Ohio University
     
  7. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    As long as they hire good ones they should be fine. Besides, from the looks of this article, we may be able to just let knu do the heavy lifting
     
  8. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    If it isn't settled, they'll write a check in accordance with their position. It will then be up to CU/UNL to get a judgement forcing them to pay the remainder.
     
  9. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    This is what I'm afraid of.
     
  10. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    The problem with this is -- CU doesn't have the money. The Big 12 holds the television revenues, and then distributes them.

    So it won't be CU writing anybody any checks. CU isn't going to "owe" anybody.

    The Big 12 just won't PAY CU for their television revenues.

    I don't think "damages" matter, at all. At least not according to the Bylaws. They are pretty specific that with a 2 year withdrawal notice, the withdrawing team forfeits (i.e. doesn't get paid) 50% of their conference television revenues for those two years.

    So it's not a matter of how much CU will have to PAY to the Big 12. CU doesn't have to PAY the Big 12 a dime. But the Big 12 can WITHHOLD money from their television payout. THAT is the issue -- HOW MUCH can the Big 12 withhold from their payout?
     
  11. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    You could say that.

     
  12. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    A ruthless and vindictive approach would be for the B12 hold 100% of CU's allocation until the specific terms have been ruled upon. Then slow roll CU for months and months while all the details are settled.

    It's a good thing there aren't any ruthless or vindictive people in college sports.
     
  13. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    A good lawyer? That's an oxymoron. Are you talking about someone who delivers a win for CU and banks 50% of the disputed amount, or some pro bono hack who gets his ass handed to him by some Dallas court?
     
  14. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Doing so would place the Big 12 in a situation of breaching the contract.

    Then CU could sue for damages, attorneys fees, + what they are owed of the television revenues.
     
  15. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    That sounds like a best case scenario...for the legal profession. (And Coach Hawkins)

    It would be a cash flow nightmare for the fans if getting a settlement or final court judgement were a condition of buying out Dan Hawkins and hiring a replacement.
     
  16. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    I don't think this is entirely accurate. I believe the actual wording of the bylaws is that the school would have to forfeit said percentage for specific notification period in the case of "hardship" caused to conference. I believe that the hardship wording is actually in the document. People have come out saying that the contract has been very poorly worded to enforce the penalty in the case of no hardship being caused which the Big 12(10) and their mouthpieces have been trumpeting loud and clear to the world that they are in fact getting richer not poorer. Thus why CU and NU actually have a solid legal argument.
     
  17. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Actually, here is the specific language:

    "If a member institution gives proper Notice pursuant to Section 3.1 (a "Withdrawing Member"), then the Members agree that such withdrawal would cause financial hardship to the remaining Member Institutions of the Conference, and that the financial consequences cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time. Therefore, in recognition of the obligations and responsibilities of each Member Institution to all other Member Institutions of the Conference, each Member Institution agrees that the amount of revenue that would have been otherwise distributable to a Withdrawing Member pursuant to Section 2 herein for the final two (2) years of the Current Term or the then current Additional Term, as the case may be, shall be refuced by fifty percent (50%) with the remainder to be distributed to the other Member Institutions who are not Withdrawing Members or Breaching Members (as defined below) as additional Conference revenues in accordance with Section 2 herein." (Emphasis added.)

    In other words, just by joining the Conference, CU has already admitted that the other members of the conference have been caused financial hardship, should any team elect to withdraw.
     
  18. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Yes, but it's up to us to prove it. We're not the ones who are writing the check. The Big 12 can pretty much arbitrarily withhold whatever amount they deem appropriate and make us take them to court to get more.
     
  19. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I'm gonna look for the article, but a Delaware attorney, where the Big XII is incorporated and where any case will be heard, stated that liquidated damages need to be proven before before a court prior being paid.
     
  20. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Here is an article I found.. It is interesting that the chose Delaware law to govern..

    http://www.delawarebusinesslawyerblog.com/2008/09/liquidated_damages_in_delaware.html

     
  21. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    So that makes it sound like the Mack 10 is actually going to argue that there's no way of knowing what the damage is by CU and UNL leaving, while the schools will argue that it's easy to determine - look at the new TV deals, and the statements by league officials that there won't be any financial loss.

    I would assume the attorneys for the conference will start dragging in things like basketball tournament revenues, baseball tourney revenues, bowl appearance fees, long-term effects on TV deals, etc. as unknowns that keep you from arriving at an amount of liquidated damages...
     
  22. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Exactly. However, when the commissioner, most of the ADs and a state's governor are all on record saying the league is better off without CU and NU... Well, the UT PR puppet and the Big 12 shot themselves in the foot there.

    NU and CU actually have slightly different positions in the whole thing.

    NU:
    -Doesn't want to pay, period.
    -Will argue 'implied breach' since CU left, MU wouldn't commit and UT said MU and CU leaving would end the Big 12.
    -Will argue that no damages actually occurred.

    CU:
    -I think is/was willing to accept that damages are due as part of leaving, because they were gone anyway, but hey, if you can get out of 'em, get out of em.
    -Will argue that they only owe based on two years notice, if anything because it's really a mutual thing to leave in 2011 as opposed to 2012. The Big 12 doesn't want a Costanza playing out the string, as it were.
    -To CUs benefit, the Big 12 jammed it's foot in it's mouth and stated that CU brought NOTHING to the table and that the league is definitely better off without CU, this opens the door for CU to further reduce or eliminate any damages.

    NUs best argument in implied breach and CUs best argument is arguing no damages. NU would have a harder time showing no damages and CU really can't argue implied breach, especially if they've been working on thsi since October.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  23. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    Look, forget the legal positions for a minute, at the end of the day you have 10 member schools plus the Big 12 conference who have a vested interest in getting their pound of flesh from CU and NU.

    Collectively they can afford to withold our distribution and drag this out indefinitely since the burden will be on CU and NU to force them to pay us. The deep pockets are on their side, not ours and allowing them to litigate this to death will costs us a sh**load, so even if we have a great case, we'd be wise to settle this quickly somewhere in the middle and move on.
     
  24. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Yes, they can do that, and probably will, but they all have realignment skeletons in the closet, and if this gets to trial there'll be a lot of egg on a lot of faces, especially UTs. Ultimately there'll be a quiet settlement out of court, at least with CU. NU appears willing to fight this until the end.
     
  25. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Troo - I can definitely see a scenario where CU and NU say "Pay up boys", the B12 (read: UT) tells us to shove it and our response is to subpoena all of their e-mail records. That would likely get a pretty quick resolution to any dispute right there.

    The more I think about it, the more I think the B12 (read: UT) will either pay out at 100% or come very close to it.
     
  26. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    But the emails of every member school in the Big 12 (except Baylor) are already 100% public record.

    Any email at all that was sent by any person at any of the state schools is already available, all you have to do is ask.
     
  27. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    But not the Big XII offices, correct?
     
  28. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    But nobody has asked, yet. And certainly nobody has asked with the intention of entering the e-mails into evidence in a lawsuit.
     
  29. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    All the more reason this will ultimately settle. Everyone is posturing at this point, but no one really wants this to go to trial, including NU. They may have an axe to grind with UT, but they're not dumb enough to throw good money after bad by taking this to trial (by the way, if they do it's bad for CU because the Big12 has no incentive to settle unless it can settle with both schools).

    My point was that if people out there are thinking we are going to get away for free because of this "damages" business, they're going to be disappointed.
     
  30. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Communications using university provided systems would be public record. I'm sure a lot of this was carried on under the radar, and through conversations. Even the records that are public would need someone with a purpose to sift through everything to dig up the dirt. It's the private conversations and having to testify under oath that'll really bring out what happened. I really doubt UT wants Dodds to have testify to anything under oath, there are already too many conflicting stories out there, something would give, and I have a feeling that it's UTs side of the story that's not quite on the up and up.
     

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