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one more season.

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Liver, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    it hit me at the half yesterday. no matter how much i bitch about the dreadful special teams play and the complete lack of an offensive philosophy and the inexplicable personnel decisions and the giant step back that the d-line has taken, it all comes down to one basic fact:

    we just don't have enough d-1 athletes to be competitive. when your starting lineup is filled with a bunch of guys who were slated for redshirts or who were never expected to get beyond the role of contributor, you are not going to win at this level.

    basically, this year has been the "disaster" scenario that our team needed to avoid in order to keep building. we needed a lucky break or 2. we didn't get it.

    unfortunately, luck plays a role in which programs succeed and which fail. hawkins needed a year where the starters stayed healthy. had that happened, the Buffs would probably be looking at 8+ wins, despite all the coaching complaints i have.

    it is a tough break, but that's where we are. support for the program is eroding and belief in hawkins is fading. recruiting is going to be challenging.

    so, fast forward to next season. with all margin for error now basically erased for this staff, they have to win and make some real noise next year, no matter what.

    i am frustrated as all hell, but i am good, i guess, with one more season to see what happens. they need to deliver, regardless of the breaks or we need to get a new staff in here. next year = job year, imho.
     
  2. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Firing Hawk next year would set this program back considerably. He's bringing in great talent to CU. Let's let these kids mature before we start axing anyone.
     
  3. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    "Firing" Hawk should not even be on anyone's thought process. He is going to turn this around and I believe he'll do it quickly. My only real complaint with coaching is the offensive play calling. But I suppose they kind of have one arm tied behind their backs on offense. The injuries have just been unreal.
     
  4. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    I was responding to Liver's comment on next season being a "Job Year" for Hawkins. I really think things are still heading in the right direction.
     
  5. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Sorry if I seemed to imply that you were talking about firing Hawk. I was just making a general comment that the term "firing" should not even be in our vocabulary. I know you don't advocate that. I think Hawk will prove to be a great coach.
     
  6. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I think '09 should be a "job year," but I know it is not, so I will just hope we take a big step forward next year.
     
  7. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    If we fire Hawk next year, we'll probably see a lot of his kids transfer. That would not be a situation we'd want to place ourselves in. That would guarantee another 5 losing seasons imo.
     
  8. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    "we didn't get it" is putting it mildly. Not counting anybody we lost last night, we are going to have over 100 player games lost to injury or illness, just from guys on the two deep. Over 12 games, that is an average of over 8 guys per game missing, out of 44 on the two deep. Almost 20% of the roster down on an average week. And that doesn't include guys lost to suspension, or the time lost to guys who got hurt during a game.

    Would this season look a little different with Speedy still on the field? Lockridge? Does our offense do better last night with Scott? We're all well aware of the guys lost on the OL. On defense - would we have had a better shot at shutting down some of OSUs explosion plays that were really the difference last night with Walters and Dykes on the field? The list goes on and on. It doesn't excuse a loss like Mizzou, or make the difference against UT. But might those guys have tipped the scales against aTm or Kansas, where we were in the hunt but just couldn't make enough plays?? Maybe even give us a shot at pulling out an OSU or FSU game? Hard to say. I know injuries are part of the game, but when you are playing with 80% of a roster that was still being rebuilt anyway, I think that has to be taken into account... :huh:
     
  9. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I mostly agree, but at some point, results have to matter. Hawk is going to be here through 2010 (barring another 2-10 type season), so I just hope the progress actually shows in the W-L column next year. I'm sick of losing.
     
  10. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

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    I don't see support eroding or belief in the coach fading. This year has been brutal. I think a year like this, with the injuries, suspensions and all, can actually galvanize people. This team will be better, bank on it.
     
  11. ladyblaise

    ladyblaise Club Member Club Member

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    it has not been an excuse to you yet this year. people have pointed it out ad nauseum. why be tempered now?


    poop yeah results matter. i think we should burn them all. why not?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I'm in favor of Hawkins getting five years.

    However the longer he takes to right the ship, the more success is going to have to have on the backend to keep the wolves at bay.

    When the buffs went 2 and 10, people were unhappy, but passed it off as an unhappy consequence of a new system.

    The following year people were encouraged because the buffs made a bowl game.

    This year the buffs may or may not make a bowl game.

    If the buffs don't make a bowl game this year, the bar for years four and five gets higher. Heaven forbid, if year number four ends up looking like year number three, Hawkins will have a very high bar to clear in year five to keep people convinced that he is the right man for the job.

    At least that's how I see it.
     
  13. 87Buffster

    87Buffster Member

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    Hawkins is going to be great, I think. He is an excellent recruiter. He motivates players. He builds incredible team unity and pushes kids to work hard year round.

    But... this offense is a mess, and it isn't just because of personnel problems. We inexplicably have receivers run 3 yard pass patterns on 3rd and even 4th down, when we need 7 yards for a first down. That happened too many times to count, and they almost never pick up the necessary yardage after the catch.

    We also don't have almost any bread and butter, high percentage plays. When we played Texas, they had execution on high-percentage pass plays that made a 3rd down conversion an overwhelming likelihood. We need to learn to run the kind of plays that are almost impossible for a defense to stop. Part of that is personnel, but part of that is coaching.

    We also haven't seen development / improvement in the passing game over time. In fact, we have seen the opposite. A great passing offense requires a coach that knows how to coach QBs to better performance. Cody fell apart mid-season. Yeah, yeah, I know the competition was tough and the line was a patchwork because of injury... but Cody lost accuracy, confidence, and decision-making.

    I want to keep Hawk - but to have success, if I were him I would be tempted to look for a new offensive coordinator. Even with injuries, we shouldn't have an offense that ranked around 100th in the nation.
     
  14. 2HellNback

    2HellNback Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely should NOT fire Hawk... Some other personnel, wouldn't hurt. But no one specifically..

    Give me an "H"-------
     
  15. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    Virtually every coach that's won an mNC will tell you that luck played a part in their success. Injuries are a huge part of them making such statements. I think the injury bug is so much more pronounced for us because of the youth. Guys are in this game that are not ready on a strength and conditioning level and thus they were more prone to be injured.
     
  16. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Either galvanize or demoralize. A lot of that depends on the leader. We'll see....
     
  17. GoBuffs08

    GoBuffs08 Well-Known Member

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    Injuries, bad luck, whatever. This team has taken a step back from last year, and is playing more like the team from 2006. The worst thing about it is every week they look worse than the week before.

    Regardless of injuries, CU has not shown any ability to win on the road, still make stupid mistakes in every area of the game, and always seem to be outcoached in the second half of games.

    While it is still early, recruiting for 2009 is looking to be way down from last year, with the huge concerns at D line and WR still not being addressed.

    At the start of the season I thought CU should win 7 games and get to a bowl. After they get pasted by the Fuskers they end up with a 5 win season.

    13 wins in three years, 2009 better be a job year for this staff. Another 5 or 6 win season, near bottom of the Big XII finish is unacceptable.

    There might still be support for Hawk & his staff, but there are a lot of people still around that didn't like the hire to begin with, and were unhappy with how Bohn made the hire, without really doing any legit search.

    I can hope things improve, but the 09 schedule will be just as hard as 08,
     
  18. jpbuff

    jpbuff Active Member

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    I want to see what this entire coaching staff can do with the talent that we having coming in for next year. I have been as frustrated as anyone about the offense this year but I took a hard look at it can understand the dilema that Hawk/Helfrich are dealing with. You start the season with a qb that doesn't have much in the way of escapability, the o-line starts dropping like flies and are being replaced with redshirt or true freshman, the wideouts don't spread fear into any defense, your fastest receiver in j-fly can't lift his arms above his shoulders because of injury, your best route running can't get it together in the classroom so what do you do? Your bring in a true freshman to take over the reigns in Tyler. Love the kids athletic ability but he was running the scout team one week and is running with the big dogs the next week.
    Lets run the ball. We come out of fall practice with a thunder/lightning combo in Darrell and Rodney. Darrell gets the injury bug early in the season so now we are relying on Rodney (who I absolutly love) to carry the load with Sumler. Two running backs with entirely different styles. Darrell gets spot action as the season progresses and has never been close to a 100%. Then Speedy breaks a leg. Now we are running with Darrell and Sumler. Darrell doesn't play in the OSU game so now Sumler is the guy.
    I don't care what coordinator you bring in this offense is going to struggle. We have at times seen glimpses of what this offense can do. Lets see what this staff can do with a healthy team, a team that is going to be another year older, a team that is now going to have some real depth with gametime experience. If the team stays healthy and we continue to struggle then at that time I would say that Helfrich is in over his head.
     
  19. 87toInfinity

    87toInfinity Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to read this. Use paragraphs.
     
  20. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I'd like to talk to some of those people who dont like the hire and see who they think we could have gotten: with HC exp., willing to try to re-build the program, run it cleanly, fit in in boulder, all for 1,000,000 a year.

    I'll be tyhe first to admit I wanted Butch davis, but his deal at UNC is for 2.1 a year double what hawk makes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  21. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

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    So if we beat NU and go to a bowl game and win that game, this was a lost season huh?

    Before everyone starts calling for Hawk's head and saying this was a lost season realize that we can easily still have a winning season THIS year!
     
  22. GoBuffs08

    GoBuffs08 Well-Known Member

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    At the time I liked the hire of Hawk, and still feel that things are improving, just not as fast as they should or could be.

    The problem was since Bohn basically had him picked prior to any search, the school missed the opportunity to see what other options were available. I know several boosters that wanted CU to seriously look at or talk to a few other canidates.

    I will be the first to agree that the salary structure for CU coaches leaves them in a huge disadvantage compared to other schools. However just because the school doesn't think they can afford someone, they should at least talk with the person and find out.

    My biggest frustration with CU is not the L's that are pilling up, it is the sloppy play in every area of the game. I can live with the team losing if they are getting out played by better players, then it is simply a recruiting/talent issue. But there is no excuse for all the dumb mistakes, and outright poor plays that this team makes every week.

    J-Fly fields every other punt inside his own 5. Constantly runs kickoffs out 6 yards deep in the end zone. On offense CU continues to run 3 yard pass plays on 3rd & long. Offense & Defense never seems to make second half adjustments. Not to mention all the bad penalties. All of this comes down to coaching.
     
  23. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

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    Hawk said in the offseason that he would rather bring the kickoff out of the endzone and try for a TD or long return than just go right to the 20 every time. I still like that plan. Sure it leaves us startng at the 15 a few times when we could have started at the 20 but it also has us starting at the 40 afew times too. Not sure if it is working this year, but I like the message it is sending.
     
  24. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Buimp.
     

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