Our DB depth next year scares me

[Buff_since76]

I know before the year started the two guys getting press about turning pro early were Smith and Solder. I can see pro teams liking their physical size and potential, but no mater what their combine #'s are I don't see them getting picked above round 5. I don't see Solder leaving early since he wants to get a degree to become a vet, and he really hasn't dominated at the LT position. Smith could go pro if he does well in the next three games, but I still think he would get picked in round 4 if he did great.

Kids may look at what Bradford left on the table (potential #1 overall), but Smith isn't looking at that kind of cash. If has a good senior year and gets 2nd round money (like Wheatley) that is reason enough to stay. Plus if too many guys leave early and go pro, that will only hurt his chances of getting drafted next year.

 

[Buff_since76]

By the way are DB and TE the only positions where we have depth issues (assuming everyone stays) in 2010 due to graduation/leaving early?

 

[SINKRATZ]

Smith has a chance to be an absolute stud at DB if he comes back next year. But right now he is the 2nd best CB on a mediocre defense for a bad football team - that doesn't spell early round draft pick to me even if he has all the measurables (which he does).

 

[Darth Snow]

Smith has a chance to be an absolute stud at DB if he comes back next year. But right now he is the 2nd best CB on a mediocre defense for a bad football team - that doesn't spell early round draft pick to me even if he has all the measurables (which he does).

Wait... He's our #2 cb? Since when?

 

[buffaholic]

Smith has a chance to be an absolute stud at DB if he comes back next year. But right now he is the 2nd best CB on a mediocre defense for a bad football team - that doesn't spell early round draft pick to me even if he has all the measurables (which he does).

exactly. Potential, but currently our 2nd best guy from an overall perspective.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Wait... He's our #2 cb? Since when?

Chapelle is more consistent, is a more sure tackler, and a more effective blitzer...right now. Smith has better speed and probably more upside (that deadly word), but Chapelle is the better all around corner.

 

[Darth Snow]

Chapelle is more consistent, is a more sure tackler, and a more effective blitzer...right now. Smith has better speed and probably more upside (that deadly word), but Chapelle is the better all around corner.

then why is he never on the other teams top guy? :huh:

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Am I alone in thinking Mahnke would make a pretty damned good outside linebacker?

 

[ScottyBuff]

By the way are DB and TE the only positions where we have depth issues (assuming everyone stays) in 2010 due to graduation/leaving early?

FB is empty, but maybe that is by design. Deehan is on the depth chart at both positions.

Center. I know we have Stevens-Iltis-Daniels listed there, but Daniels doesn't seem to ever get looks there and all of them will be upperclassmen next season.

Same argument for RB. With Scott leaving that would leave us with Speedy (Jr), Sumler (Sr), Lockridge (Jr), and the rest are walk-ons. We need a top recruit now to start learning the offense and take over once Speedy is gone, and/or be ready to go in case of injury.

SS - We will have Sandersfield returning with Orms possibly playing here. The other safeties are all listed as FS (Polk, Perkins, Mahnke). Vince Ewing could be a SS too, not sure. Probably not a huge need if Orms/Ewing steps up.

 

[ScottyBuff]

Am I alone in thinking Mahnke would make a pretty damned good outside linebacker?

I've wondered about that as well since Polk moved to Safety. Add 10-15 pounds and maybe a redshirt year to learn the position?

 

[MtnBuff]

Despite the difficulties we have had this year, Coach Brown is still by all reports highly respected by the NFL. With his experience at that level there is no question that he knows what it takes to be successfull in the league and what teams want.

My guess (hope) would be that Jimmy Smith would sit down with him after the season is over and make an honest evaluation. Even if there is a coaching change and if Brown is not a holdover his opinion is going to go a long way toward determining where Smith (or any of our other D players) end up in the draft or as free agents.

He is clearly talented physically but despite the obvious major improvements in his game still has a long way to go before he is as ready as the pros would want. They may draft him on potential but he will do better if they draft him on what he can do, not on what he may be able to learn to do.

 

[canuck_buff]

aren't 3d rounders all day 2 picks now? :smile2:

He will almost certainly get the NFL evaluation before he goes... anywhere from 3-4 and maybe even 5 and hes gone imho.

5th or 6th rd'er honestly at this point.

 

[SBG]

then why is he never on the other teams top guy? :huh:

Hawk and Collins don't match CBs up to the top WRs on the other side. Brown plays SS most of the time and Smith plays WS. Brown covered Shipley for a lot of the UT game, and Smith covered him too (although not as much, depends on formation).

 

[Junction]

JSmith isnt going anywhere. He is no where near ready for Sundays. He has a future in the NFL if he works on some things. Coming out now would be stupid imho.

:yeahthat:

If you're going to tackle like Deion, you better be able to cover like Deion. Right now JS just isn't there. With some work, he has the potential to have a long, outstanding NFL career, though.... :thumbsup:

 

[White_Rabbit]

I'm with snowbuff on this one, Jimmy Smith is our best cover corner. I don't know what he'd run in the 40 or vertical jump, or what his actual height is, but he's our best cover corner. Chappelle is our best blitzer.. ok.. has Jimmy ever blitzed? Shipley burned Jalil numerous times in the Texas game btw, not Jimmy. The few times I have seen Jimmy get 'beat' he has been all over the guy only for the WR to make a spectacular play. Chappelle is nice, but I want Jimmy covering the other teams best WR.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I'm with snowbuff on this one, Jimmy Smith is our best cover corner. I don't know what he'd run in the 40 or vertical jump, or what his actual height is, but he's our best cover corner. Chappelle is our best blitzer.. ok.. has Jimmy ever blitzed? Shipley burned Jalil numerous times in the Texas game btw, not Jimmy. The few times I have seen Jimmy get 'beat' he has been all over the guy only for the WR to make a spectacular play. Chappelle is nice, but I want Jimmy covering the other teams best WR.

You do realize that Jalil and Chapelle are actually 2 different people, right?

I don't disagree that Jimmy has the best cover skills - his height and speed certainly help in this regard, but Chapelle is the better all around corner right now.

First of all, Chapelle is a MUCH better tackler at this point (although Jimmy can certainly improve in this area). Take a look at the stats, Chapelle has more tackles, sacks, tackles for loss, tackles for no gain, 3rd down stops.

Jimmy has all the skills to be an NFL CB, but right now, Chapelle is a little better and a little more consistant.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I've wondered about that as well since Polk moved to Safety. Add 10-15 pounds and maybe a redshirt year to learn the position?

Uh huh. Altho I hadn't considered the redshirt possibility for him. He'd have the size to hold up in the run/blitz game and the speed to cover TE's. Enticing possibility.

 

[slider]

Jalil has really emerged this year, and Smith stays. I hope we go for a JUCO CB, we need one. Olatoye is rail thin, so we can't count on him too much. Wright needs to make the switch back to DB

 

[Buffnik]

Jalil has really emerged this year, and Smith stays. I hope we go for a JUCO CB, we need one. Olatoye is rail thin, so we can't count on him too much. Wright needs to make the switch back to DB

I'd love a JUCO corner this cycle.

Here's an interesting prospect that Rivals has us keeping an eye on (but haven't offered):

Max Williams
Glendale Community College
Ht: 6'1"
Wt: 195
40: 4.4

- December graduate
- Baylor, Boise State & Nevada (10/9 visit) are the other schools of interest
- Sophomore (3 years to play 2)

http://www.allbuffs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41371

 

[ScottyBuff]

I'd love a JUCO corner this cycle.

Here's an interesting prospect that Rivals has us keeping an eye on (but haven't offered):

Max Williams
Glendale Community College
Ht: 6'1"
Wt: 195
40: 4.4

- December graduate
- Baylor, Boise State & Nevada (10/9 visit) are the other schools of interest
- Sophomore (3 years to play 2)

Nice. I like the 3/2 scenario and the Dec. graduate. Glendale CC is better than most for academic transfers if I'm not mistaken.

 

[White_Rabbit]

You do realize that Jalil and Chapelle are actually 2 different people, right? You're not serious are you? :huh:

I don't disagree that Jimmy has the best cover skills - his height and speed certainly help in this regard, but Chapelle is the better all around corner right now. Chappelle is a good tackler, where this notion that Jimmy is not is coming from is beyond me.

First of all, Chapelle is a MUCH better tackler at this point (although Jimmy can certainly improve in this area). Take a look at the stats, Chapelle has more tackles, sacks, tackles for loss, tackles for no gain, 3rd down stops. Probably because Chappelle plays the slot a lot on third down and is therefore in better position to get tackles while Jimmy is off on an isolated island.

Jimmy has all the skills to be an NFL CB, but right now, Chapelle is a little better and a little more consistant. You can have your sure tackling corners all you want, give me a guy that can put a blanket on the opposing teams best WR.

:thumbsup:

 

[Darth Snow]

Jimmy is obviously our best corner. I am surprised this is even being debated. CB is allsome, but there is a reason he is in the slot and blitzing a lot.

 

[buffaholic]

If he was at UCLA, I'm worried if NMSU is not recruiting him.

Jimm is obviously our best "cover corner", but he's not our best corner at this point. Potentially, yes. So far on the field, no.

 

[Darth Snow]

If he was at UCLA, I'm worried if NMSU is not recruiting him.

Jimm is obviously our best "cover corner", but he's not our best corner at this point. Potentially, yes. So far on the field, no.

agree to disagree? Primary job of a corner is to cover, and Jimmy may not be the best tackler, but he is a pretty decent one for a corner. Just my opinion on corners, but covering is their primary job and if Jimmy is our best cover corner then he is simply our best corner.

 

[Buffnik]

agree to disagree? Primary job of a corner is to cover, and Jimmy may not be the best tackler, but he is a pretty decent one for a corner. Just my opinion on corners, but covering is their primary job and if Jimmy is our best cover corner then he is simply our best corner.

I agree. For me, the only time tackling comes into the debate about corners is after you've already established that guys are pretty close in their ability to cover (man and zone). Then it becomes a Deion Sanders vs. Rod Woodson thing. Both covered like glue. Both were great punt returners. But Rod could tackle and blitz effectively, so I give him a slight edge.

 

[Buffarino]

agree to disagree? Primary job of a corner is to cover, and Jimmy may not be the best tackler, but he is a pretty decent one for a corner. Just my opinion on corners, but covering is their primary job and if Jimmy is our best cover corner then he is simply our best corner.

Tackling matters. And Jimmy is not that good at tackling yet. I'm sure he can get there, but the dude whiffs on way too many tackles right now.

The NFL cares if Jimmy can tackle. Let's put it that way.

 

[BlackNGold]

DB's Gone: Burney (SR), Chappelle (SR), JSmith (RS JR) (not a sure thing, but pretty likely imho)

Only returning CB with experience: Jalil (who looks pretty decent this year, but still gets burned pretty bad at times).

Safeties: Polk (RS soph), Perkins (jr?), Mahnke, Sanderfield... Not a lot of athleticism behind Polk, although Perkins has looked OK (if slow) at times.

Coming up and unproven:

Wright (he will switch back with the new WR depth... injury issues tho)
Deji (RS frosh)
Vigo?
Jon Hawkins (decent on ST)

Who else? looks scary to me...

I hope Smith does not leave but you never know. Corners will be the issue.

I think team depth is going to be a problem going forward. CU is down to about 72-75 players on scholarship with guys like MTM and Tau having me wonder if they will ever play. If CU has further attrition after the season - it could take a class of almost 25 - 28 to fill the roster. Then once again we are young - undersigning is a big mistake in my opinion.

 

[sackman]

You can't sign 25 every year. With the 85 scholly limit, you only get an average of 17 per year (allowing for redshirts). If you figure you'll lose 4-5 every year to transfers, academics, discipline, etc. then your goal *should* be to sign 22 or so players every year. You can hit that 25 number every once in a while, so long as you understand it will likely limit what you can do at some point down the road.

 

[BlackNGold]

You can't sign 25 every year. With the 85 scholly limit, you only get an average of 17 per year (allowing for redshirts). If you figure you'll lose 4-5 every year to transfers, academics, discipline, etc. then your goal *should* be to sign 22 or so players every year. You can hit that 25 number every once in a while, so long as you understand it will likely limit what you can do at some point down the road.

You are missing my point. His last two classes he undersigned on the scholarships needed to get us to the 85 limit. I am not talking about getting 25 in a class but I am talking about signing enough to keep the team close to the 85 limit. He has not done that.

Last year he could of signed 23 to get us to 85. Instead he signed 19 and 3 of those did not get in so he was 7 under the 85 limit. Then further attrition cut deeper. Most teams would sign enough to get to 86 or 87 knowing they will get attrition before fall camp. Hawkins is not managing the numbers well.

 

[Buffarino]

You are missing my point. His last two classes he undersigned on the scholarships needed to get us to the 85 limit. I am not talking about getting 25 in a class but I am talking about signing enough to keep the team close to the 85 limit. He has not done that.

Last year he could of signed 23 to get us to 85. Instead he signed 19 and 3 of those did not get in so he was 7 under the 85 limit. Then further attrition cut deeper. Most teams would sign enough to get to 86 or 87 knowing they will get attrition before fall camp. Hawkins is not managing the numbers well.

Exactly. If you have to greyshirt a guy or two, it is not the end of the world. And it's far better than being short all the time.