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PAC-10 Dealbreaker?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by SpacemanSpiff, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    I think Plati had some good comments in his latest Platitudes, regarding the myriad of issues that factor into CU joining the PAC 10. But I think they break down to 2 real issues:
    1) Money
    2) Division Alignment

    I think the money issue, while multi-faceted (travel, alumni support, tv deal, penalty for leaving the Big 12, etc) is one that can be quantified and determined to be acceptable or not.

    The Division Alignment issue, not so much. Do we turn the deal down if it means a North division of us, Utah, UW, WSU, OU and OSU? Are we even in position to turn down a deal if offered?

    If the Big 12 starts coming apart at the seems, then our leverage with the PAC 10 weakens, but since we are bringing a tv market that will increase the payout to all teams, do we have the leverage now to get a division alignment that puts us with the California teams?
     
  2. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    How the hell would we be in a division with the California teams when Arizona and Arizona State are more south and closer to California?


    The Pac 10 takes us with Utah we are lumped in with UW, UO, WSU and Oregon State... Great division... :rolling_eyes:


    Other than Utah and USC (they will be in Folsom once every 4 years) and maybe Ariz State, CU will not draw any huge crowds from our opponents at Folsom.. Expect about 10,000 under capacity to be the norm when the Oregon States and Washington States come to town with their 500 fans.. Should be lots of fun.. Hope they extend Talkins too just to put the cherry on top of the next CU debacle.. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  3. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    That's why I'm asking. Is that good enough or do we have enough pull to make them align differently? Clearly you aren't a fan of the move anyway.
     
  4. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Its impossible to align them any differently.. California isn't going to want to be in another division without their rivals USC and UCLA..
     
  5. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Like I care how many other teams' fans show up at Folsom. That's right up there with "when will they start selling burritos again at Folsom" on my list of important things to worry about.

    The division thing has to be worked out, though. I'm hoping they don't go to divisions at all, but work out some kind of round-robin format and take the top two teams for the CCG based on overall conference record, not division title.
     
  6. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

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    This is my only fear with going to the a PAC. If we are in the division with the Washingtons/Oregons and Utah, then that sucks. I still like it better than the big 12 but they need to find a way to make sure we are going to NoCal and SoCal every year. Would be nice to just play an 11 game schedule of Pac12 schools each year but that means only scheduling one OOC each year, two if you get to a bowl.
     
  7. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Here's how you do it and it works:

    Pacific Division
    Washington
    Washington State
    Oregon
    Oregon State
    Stanford
    Cal

    West Deivision
    UCLA
    USC
    Arizona
    Arizona State
    Utah
    Colorado

    This maintains the most important rivalries (LA, Bay Area, in-state) and one of the most important regional ones (Oregon schools vs. Washington schools). It also puts all of the Mountain time zone schools in the same division, which works better for fostering these natural rivalries and also for tv scheduling (the Arizona schools are sometimes Mountain & sometimes Pacific, so it balances).

    For football, this makes for 5 in-division games per season. The next step in scheduling with this conference alignment is to have 9 conference games per year (as the Pac does now). That allows you to have 2 rivals in the other division that you play every year: USC-UCLA vs. Cal-Stanford; Arizona-Arizona State vs. Washington-Washington State; Colorado-Utah vs. Oregon-Oregon State.

    Now you have the California schools playing each other every year, so they're no longer upset about being in different divisions. You also have created the framework for more rivalries to develop.

    Final problem to solve is that everyone is going to want to play a game against both the Northern and Southern California teams every year. This can be accomplished by having every-other-year scheduling for the 4 remaining teams in the other division. One year CU plays Stanford at home, but doesn't play Cal at all. The next year, CU doesn't play Stanford, but plays Cal in Berkeley. Etc., etc.

    There is no reason this would not work and I'd say it's far from impossible to align the teams this way. What's impossible, imo, is to put all 4 California teams in the same division, stack so much recruiting & media cache into a single division, and expect the conference to work. (And with that last line, I believe I just described the Big 12 and the Texas problem for those of you wondering why so many of us feel our current conference is broken beyond repair.)
     
  8. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it matters geographically, look at the SEC
     
  9. DesertDawg526

    DesertDawg526 Resident Dawg Club Member

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    USC-Washington is the closest thing to Texas-Oklahoma West of Texas.

    Washington will play in L.A. every year or the deals off... (no worries, so will CU)

    How many years was the Red-River Shootout not held in the Big XII?

    There is no way a north-south true split works. If every school does not play in L.A. every single year, no matter what the circumstances, expansion will not occur. It is too much of a recruiting hotbed to shut anyone out. Even the Ducks, who went to a big bowl game this year on the arms of a felon (Class C handed out today to Masoli for burglary) and the legs of a woman-beater (James who should be in jail just about now)...although I think the ankle brace is now off James...
     
  10. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    I'd sign up for this! YMSSR!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  11. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    @nik

    That alignment makes sense. Geographically it would be more like the Northwest and the Southeast divisions, but call them whatever you want or something arbitrary like the ACC did. (Atlantic and Coastal, WTF is that???) What's good and important about this alignment is that it keeps the schools that are in close proximity in the same divisions, which is how it should be. That's something the ACC completely bombed on. Their alignment looks like they threw the 12 names in a hat and picked the divisions that way.
     
  12. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    The SEC is aligned geographically, look at a map.

    EDIT: I somehow forgot about Vandy, they slightly skew the true East/West division if you were to draw a vertical line. But I'm sure the reasoning was to keep rivals or regional schools in the same division - Bama/Auburn, Miss/MSU, and Ark/LSU. Which is how it should be, as I mentioned in my previous post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  13. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Cal's rivals are USC and UCLA since when? they have one all consuming rival, Stanford,that is it, finito, end of story. Cal's 1 good game against USC 6 years ago does not a rivalry make.

    They shouldl zipper the divisions so that each team has access to every market and plays its one true rival every year. You'll probably see something like:

    West:
    UW
    OU
    CAL
    UCLA
    AZ
    and CO or Utes

    West(er):
    Wazzu
    OSU
    Stanfurd
    USC
    ASU
    CO/utes


    You'll play your 5 in division schools, your "local" rival and a couple (potentially 3, if the keep the 9 game schedule) rotating schools.
     
  14. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    quite possibly the most absurd division makeup I have ever seen.

    California/Stanford has been playing USC and UCLA every year for decades in football and twice in basketball forever.. They aren't going to throw it away just so some Rocky school can play in Los Angeles every year.. I know this might shock people here but there are alumni from Cal and Stanford living in Southern California.. And yes, many more than CU has.. They aren't just going to shrug their shoulders and accept not playing in LA every year.


    Its hilarious that people think that the Pac 10 is going to make everything sweet for CU and Utah.. You guys are living in fantasy land.. You guys are becoming more delusional than Talkins everyday..
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  15. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    oh go suck a goat
     
  16. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    come back to reality..
     
  17. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    life is boring when you live in reality
     
  18. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis MA....THE MEATLOAF!!! Club Member

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    Washington State has also been playing USC and UCLA every year in football for a long time, I guess they must be "rivals" too. :rolling_eyes:

    If the Pac 10 is serious about expanding its conference, and reaping all of the benefits that come with expansion, then it will require certain concessions from ALL of the members in order to make things work, logistically. I know this must be shocking to you.
     
  19. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    You mean like the BIg 12 did for OU and Neb so they could play every year?


    Simple geography and common sense tells me California schools will not be split up.. Now you guys who want to continue in fantasy land and try to somehow separate the California teams and put CU in a division with USC is fine with me.. Just don't expect it ever to happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  20. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I didn't say they hadnt played each other i said they weren't rivals, 80% of my social circle went to one of those 4 schools I went to highschool in the bay area and live in LA now. From a purely rivalry stand point USC/UCLA and Standford/Cal dont give 2 ****s about each other.

    Specific to this case they wont create a division of red headed step children if they do the deal it makes no sense from a business or fan interest stand point. As for splitting the Cali schools? They split OU/NU when they made the big12 and they had a real rivalry so fake rivalries will be no sacred cow.

    Call me delusional call me what ever you want but I'd rather spitball a few silly ideas on maybe deal, rather than go through life pissed off about everything. As for you rather than getting worked up about how we might get shafted in a deal that has about a 20% chance (if that) of happening, or spending all day bitching about Pac10 talk, or that we are running for cover, why dont you just stop opening the threads?
     
  21. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    They split OU/NU because of simple geography.. Obviously that is lost on you..
     
  22. BupsJones

    BupsJones Active Member

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    How does playing Oregon and Washington not sound better than our yearly battles with Iowa State and Kansas? Am I missing something? We can still schedule Nebraska every season non-conference along with CSU. We will see UCLA and USC very frequently, about as much as like we do with Texas and Oklahoma now.

    We have not developed any rivalries in the 16 years of playing Big 12 football. This gives us a new chance for some instant classic games and create new rivalries based on performance on the field as opposed to history of games played. Maybe Utah would be fun, we don't know yet because they are too busy winning bowl games while we can barely get a winning record. The rest of the country probably looks at us and wonders why we are in such hot demand and seeing us lose to teams like Toledo on national TV last year. I could care less what division of the Pac 10 we are placed. Its a better fit and a fresh start for a program that could use a boost and some positive news.
     
    fcjack1 likes this.
  23. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Ok jimmy lets play geography: what schools are CU/utes closest to? and then second closest to? which are they farthest from? second farthest?
     
  24. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    i don't think the p12 will be broken into any divisions unless that is a ncaa rule. i know you need 12 for a conf. champ game, but why can't they just take the top 2 conference records?

    what you'd do then, in order to keep everyone reasonably happy is each team would play its rival annually (CU would be paired with utah and the rest are obvious). every team woud play 9 conf. games like now and you'd rotate thru the 10 non-rival conf. opponents equally and annually so you'd only miss 3 teams a year. and you'd never miss your rival. this way, no one is split away from the socal teams and there is not a perceived weaker sister division either.

    that's how you do it.
     
  25. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    the 9 game conference schedule would be interesting to see applied to this situation, it would likely increase the value of the TV deal pretty significantly.
     
  26. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    It's hilarious that the people who are dead set against the idea are the only people who have ever said that.

    If you're going to keep arguing about something you claim to be so bored by, at least try to do it honestly, ok?
     
  27. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    I don't see why they can't get the $$$ worked out. Obviously thats what everything seems to boil down to these days which makes everything else a moot point. As long as Plati & Bohn continue to address this publicly then I have to believe there is at least a 50 - 50 chance of the Buffs jumping ship to the P10/P12.
     
  28. Chad Sexingt

    Chad Sexingt New Member

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    The alignment proposal that is getting the most play right now...

    This alignment proposal is being referred to as the "Zipper" alignment.

    Moonbeam Division:
    Cal
    UCLA
    Oregon
    Washington
    Arizona
    Colorado

    Straight Cash Homie Division:
    Stanford
    USC
    Oregon St
    Washington St
    Arizona St
    UTAH

    Also, with the TV negotiations under way an announcement is slated for sometime around June 11th on the whole ball of wax, expansion and $$$. Rumors are that the numbers being thrown around are in the same range as the SEC.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  29. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Actually I believe that it is a part of the rule that there be two divisions. I've been trying to find the exact reference, but the SEC commish that started the CCG was quoted as saying as much when he started their CCG.

    @Nik
    I agree with your divisional alignment of a "modified zipper", my idea was the same just had USC and Cal switched up.
     
  30. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    man, i hope that is true. talk about a financial windfall. CU could add a couple sports, i bet, if the numbers are that big.
     

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